BOHICA, MidWest: Officer Acquitted in Philando Castile Shooting

[Veer_G]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/16/us/phi...ict/index.html

Whatever the facts of the case were, and however they affected the acquittal, shit is gonna start on the street, guaranteed. Gear up and stay frosty, people.

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[...]

Protip: when pulled over and you inform the cop you have a weapon in the car, keep your hands on the wheel, and DO NOT FUCKING MOVE until he tells you to.

maybe if people werent morons they wouldnt end up in the situations they do

 

[ArmyJerry]

Too bad, glad the cop got fired but he should have gotten more.

 

[MtnCreek]

Shot because he was in fear for his life. How much of that fear was his own fault?

 

[ArmyJerry]

He should not have been a cop in the first place, seems cops are triggered very easy these days, even by 10 year olds playing wth bob guns. I gotta ask how much the "hero" complex comes into play in some of these questionable shootings. But i think most of thre bad shoots are from being pussies and easily triggered, like that Oklahoman woman.

 

[bogeybrown]

He should not have been a cop in the first place, seems cops are triggered very easy these days, even by 10 year olds playing wth bob guns. I gotta ask how much the "hero" complex comes into play in some of these questionable shootings. But i think most of thre bad shoots are from being pussies and easily triggered, like that Oklahoman woman.

From my own experience on the street I think the problem was two-fold:

Yes, there are now and always have been guys in uniform that simply shouldn't be. In today's world you have the products of the "zero tolerance" school policies where little boys don't grow up fighting in the playground. That's coupled with the general emasculation of American men in general.

Secondly, we've been in an era of silly-assed "Community Policy" policies that have removed officers from some of the grittier policing tasks. We've also seen widespread removal of "stop and frisk", which is where young cops used to get a ton of valuable experience and desensitizing to typical street bullshit. On top of that, politicians and police supervisors have made it pretty clear that you're gonna have your ass hung out to dry if you get out in the streets and do some tough policing. They'd prefer you shut up and sit under a tree until called.

Having worked the shittiest neighborhoods for most of our careers, my squad mates and I had a pretty good read on when it was time to get down. We were generally amazed when an officer that came from candy land, or from a previous pussy supervisor, would totally over react to a situation. A lot of those guys either had no idea of the appropriate response due to lack of experience with true bad guys, or were (rightfully) a little scared because they were WAY outside of their depth.

I equated it to the guy who lives in Alaska and is used to seeing bears all the time: he knows when to worry and doesn't get ready to shoot every bear he sees. The guy who's never seen a bear in his life is going to have a totally different response.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Fair enough, you get where I am coming from, most of what we have today is a result of expedient fixes from the past, the only way I see to fix this is a system like we had in the mil to weed out shitty LTs that could not perform, The boys in blue need to police themselves as nobody else gives a shit about you all until you start getting youtubed for a bad shoot.

 

[atomic41]

There were definitely no winners in this situation. Officer Yanez was jumpy for sure, but Castille was high and acting like a moron. It was a bad combination of nervous cop and moron reaching after being told to stop, and after announcing he had a gun on him. it's made way worse by the race hustlers who are acting like this was murder motivated by racism. That bullshit is not good for anyone, especially the officers who go to work every day. The dead guy was a moron plain and simple. If he would have followed orders, he would be alive today.

This case was in a suburb of St Paul. I have friends on SPPD, MPD, and my son just began his law enforcement career with MPD. The local officers that I know are damn good people and awesome police officers. The trouble makers are the local activists trying to stir shit up for attention, the worst being BLM. My son is pretty good about watching his 6, but I still worry about him getting ambushed by these BLM scum like the officers in Dallas or NY, etc.

The march last night was surprisingly peaceful. I watched their livestream. They did shut down the freeway for a while but it was nice to see a bunch of them get arrested.

 

[308pirate]

but Castille was high and acting like a moron.

And this you know.....how?

 

[atomic41]

And this you know.....how?

Because I read the reports and you obviously didn't.

 

[308pirate]

Because I read the reports and you obviously didn't.

Reports written by the same cop that shot him? Yeah, that's credible.

 

[atomic41]

Reports written by the same cop that shot him? Yeah, that's credible.

No not just the cop that shot him. Diamond Reynolds admitted they got high, drugs were found in the vehicle, both officers and the other responders all smelled it. Then there's the toxicology report that found drugs in his system. You sound as if your mind is made up and you obviously don't even know the details. But why let facts get in the way of your emotions right?

 

[Alphatreedog]

Just to play devils advocate . The guy matched the description of an armed robberry suspect if I"m not mistaken . The officer did a car stop and the suspect at this point informs officer I have a gun . Some jurisdictions record via radio mic and inform you that this is being recorded . Wether or not he told the officer he had a gun may likely be on audio record . Wether or not he repeatedly ordered the suspect to show me your hands or something to the effect may be on audio record . If he was a suspect in an armed robbery , admitted to having a gun and failed to comply after numerous commands I don't think the officers reaction was unwarranted. What he has to wait til it gets shoved in his face . Unless anyone hear has all of the transcripts , testimony and evidence the best you can offer is opinion . And for the record he would not be the first police officer who was dismissed for legal and appropriate use of deadly force . Just considering another possibility . My buddies dad was an FOP President and got hold of a copy of the Rodney King tape . Funny how no one was shown the near twenty minutes of King knocking these guys off of their feet . At one point King had one officer off of the ground by the throut and as another charged him he knocked him to the ground with one punch . Objectivity and emotional control would do the whole Country some good right now .

 

[woogie_man]

Things are already getting stupid in Minneapolis. Already having issues with rioters blocking roads.

Picked a bad weekend to travel to the cities with the family. Thinking of turning around and heading home

 

[...]

I don't give a fuck about any cop explanations or rationalizations. Was Castile drawing his gun or not?

Oh wait, he was "jumpy" let's just shoot the fucker.

So the officer was found not guilty by the courts in a legal preceding......

But apparently youre not happy with that and you feel he should be guilty because........reasons?

 

[308pirate]

Not guilty does not equal innocent. That's a gross conceptual error many people make.

 

[...]

Not guilty does not equal innocent. That's a gross conceptual error many people make.

thats actually exactly what it means.....we are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

we do not get to rule based on emotions and what we "think" happened..........

 

[ArmyJerry]

Was there body can footage, and saying the court cleared him is one thing but you are leaving out a whole layer of special privelage/protection basically a whole seperate set of law that cops get when it comes to the charges and trials. Not saying that this cope should be in jail even if he was a scared little pussy and shot the guy but no one should be saying it was a good shoot based on a written report by his department wither. Oh and stop with the moral equalizing that he was high so he must have done something to get shot shit. That hold as much water as me saying the shoot was bad.

 

[308pirate]

thats actually exactly what it means.....we are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

we do not get to rule based on emotions and what we "think" happened..........

Not guilty just means guilty but the state failed to prove it.

 

[...]

Not guilty just means guilty but the state failed to prove it.

With all due respect.....that is probably the single dumbest thing ive ever heard a human say....

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Not guilty just means guilty but the state failed to prove it.

Are you serious? That's absolutely ignorant and not how our system of justice or real life works. That's like saying all cops are perfect or on the flipside all cops are egotistical racist baby killers or something ridiculous. He was found not guilty by a jury of his peers, that is a fact unlike some of the BS speculation going on by some.

 

[Downtown]

I rarely wiegh in on this Bear discussions, but I cannot help myself here. Yes, not guilty does mean innocent. Don't we all know this?

 

[...]

I rarely wiegh in on this Bear discussions, but I cannot help myself here. Yes, not guilty does mean innocent. Don't we all know this?

but....but....but mah feeling tell me hes guilty......and mah feelings be more important then facts.....

i mean, if everyone accused of a crime is automatically guilty.....why even bother have trials?.......why not just accuse people and take them straight to the gallows?......oh thats right, because we dont live in 17th century Salem thats why.

 

[ArmyJerry]

OJ didn't kill Nichole and her BF I guess. Get real you two.

 

[...]

OJ didn't kill Nichole and her BF I guess. Get real you two.

so everyone accused of a crime is guilty?

or just the people we "think should be guilty" are actually guilty.....?

god if thats honestly how you think this country should be run.....i suggest you "get real"....

we are a country of laws.....not fucking mob rule....

 

[2ndamendfan]

From my own experience on the street I think the problem was two-fold:

Yes, there are now and always have been guys in uniform that simply shouldn't be. In today's world you have the products of the "zero tolerance" school policies where little boys don't grow up fighting in the playground. That's coupled with the general emasculation of American men in general.

Secondly, we've been in an era of silly-assed "Community Policy" policies that have removed officers from some of the grittier policing tasks. We've also seen widespread removal of "stop and frisk", which is where young cops used to get a ton of valuable experience and desensitizing to typical street bullshit. On top of that, politicians and police supervisors have made it pretty clear that you're gonna have your ass hung out to dry if you get out in the streets and do some tough policing. They'd prefer you shut up and sit under a tree until called.

Having worked the shittiest neighborhoods for most of our careers, my squad mates and I had a pretty good read on when it was time to get down. We were generally amazed when an officer that came from candy land, or from a previous pussy supervisor, would totally over react to a situation. A lot of those guys either had no idea of the appropriate response due to lack of experience with true bad guys, or were (rightfully) a little scared because they were WAY outside of their depth.

I equated it to the guy who lives in Alaska and is used to seeing bears all the time: he knows when to worry and doesn't get ready to shoot every bear he sees. The guy who's never seen a bear in his life is going to have a totally different response.

I am not nor have ever been LEO. But I agree. Couple of stories. This one may not be unique and my in fact be common. A friend I have is a many year (10ish) veteran of state highway patrol. He was supervisor of a guy who had a few years under his belt in a blue state (east coast somewhere) and was doing some daily/weekly debrief for new guys and the new guy was telling my friend that it was unnerving how many people he pulled over with guns in the vehicle. Something he was unaccustomed to.

Me I get pulled over from time to time. Tail light, speeding, small stuff but legitimate. I always have a gun in the vehicle. Always produce my DL and CCW. The veteran cops seem to maintain awareness but really could careless (they absolutely like to be notified). But a couple of times i have had some very adverse reactions that seemed like total "i just shit my pants fear". Had 1 who unlatched the snap on her holster and kept her hand on her gun while we discussed a couple things. Scared the piss out of me but i did not react and maintained my cool (one of had to or it was going to go bad). I was not real impressed with that one.

 

[spaniel]

Things like this are why I don't disclose to an officer unless the law requires it in the state, as long as there is zero chance they'll learn of the gun. Most are totally cool -- crooks intending an officer harm typically don't voluntarily offer the information that they are armed -- but it only takes one jumpy rookie to take things south.

I did once have to disclose to an officer in a must-disclose state. First officer was cool, but his partner was a jumpy MFer. In the situation I was actually a crime victim and had called them. They took my gun, no problem, end of encounter, I ask for it back. Officer Cool had left so I just have Officer Jumpy, he wouldn't give me both the gun and ammo back because he said I might shoot him before I could leave. I tell him to lock it in my trunk so he has time to drive away (this whole conversation was surreal). Gun goes into trunk, he chucks my rounds in the dirt, and peels out like a bat out of hell.

This guy in no way represents the average officer I have encountered. But when a gun is introduced into the situation, it only takes one like this. So if the officer is never going to know the gun is there and I'm not legally required to tell him, I'm not taking the risk.

 

[ArmyJerry]

A country of laws, where the hell have tyou been,. You have the head of the FB Fkn I perjuring himself over and over, you have the FBI trying to set up and entrap a president and undermine the will of the people, the FBI letting a criminal witch go because she is deep state like them, Fkn Crooks all, there are plenty of bad shoots by cops that the criminal in Blue get away with. We aint a country of laws anymore my friend, unfortunately if your a cop you will be the one that pays the price more than others, unfortunate for out country too. Like I said above I dont think this piss poor cop killed this dumass with malice but losing his job is just not enough punishment, Pleae open your eyes, when you defend the asshole in Blue that mad the thousands of great things that happen every day by the good guys in Blue you diminish your whole profession and waste all that effort thats been going on over the past two years PR wise.

Country of laws my ass.

so everyone accused of a crime is guilty?

or just the people we "think should be guilty" are actually guilty.....?

god if thats honestly how you think this country should be run.....i suggest you "get real"....

we are a country of laws.....not fucking mob rule....

 

[1J04]

A country of laws, where the hell have tyou been,. You have the head of the FB Fkn I perjuring himself over and over, you have the FBI trying to set up and entrap a president and undermine the will of the people, the FBI letting a criminal witch go because she is deep state like them, Fkn Crooks all, there are plenty of bad shoots by cops that the criminal in Blue get away with. We aint a country of laws anymore my friend, unfortunately if your a cop you will be the one that pays the price more than others, unfortunate for out country too. Like I said above I dont think this piss poor cop killed this dumass with malice but losing his job is just not enough punishment, Pleae open your eyes, when you defend the asshole in Blue that mad the thousands of great things that happen every day by the good guys in Blue you diminish your whole profession and waste all that effort thats been going on over the past two years PR wise.

Country of laws my ass.

Jesus Christ Jerry. You really gotta stop and take a fucking breath from time to time. Inhale, exhale. Inhale, exhale. Better? Geezus phuking krist.

 

[ArmyJerry]

That was a rant huh. But I call it how I see it.

 

[1J04]

That was a rant huh. But I call it how I see it.

Damn Brother. Tuckered me out. 2 Midol and sleep it off.

 

[Veer_G]

Damn Brother. Tuckered me out. 2 Midol and sleep it off.

Caffeine: it tastes like ... freedom.

 

[1J04]

Caffeine: it tastes like ... freedom.

Still funny as hell. God that cracks me up. You're gonna push Jerry into another episode if ya don't knock it off.
Jerry, you're a fucking animal man.

 

[Veer_G]

The animal crackers are just the bestest touch!

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Rock on, Jerry!

 

[Veer_G]

 

[ArmyJerry]

Hehehehe funny shit, I am in the middle of motorcycle ride, I just finished a ride up the continental dived off road with a 500 pound bike for 2 k miles, from AZ through Montana, finished that and now riding Oregon Washington and today Idaho. I had to stop in and poke you fkrs. Funny sht VeerG

 

[2ndamendfan]

Things like this are why I don't disclose to an officer unless the law requires it in the state, as long as there is zero chance they'll learn of the gun. Most are totally cool -- crooks intending an officer harm typically don't voluntarily offer the information that they are armed -- but it only takes one jumpy rookie to take things south.

I did once have to disclose to an officer in a must-disclose state. First officer was cool, but his partner was a jumpy MFer. In the situation I was actually a crime victim and had called them. They took my gun, no problem, end of encounter, I ask for it back. Officer Cool had left so I just have Officer Jumpy, he wouldn't give me both the gun and ammo back because he said I might shoot him before I could leave. I tell him to lock it in my trunk so he has time to drive away (this whole conversation was surreal). Gun goes into trunk, he chucks my rounds in the dirt, and peels out like a bat out of hell.

This guy in no way represents the average officer I have encountered. But when a gun is introduced into the situation, it only takes one like this. So if the officer is never going to know the gun is there and I'm not legally required to tell him, I'm not taking the risk.

I hear you man. In my state it was the law to disclose when I first got my CCW. I believe that has changed in the last 5 years or so. With that it is tied to your DL. Not sure if every department can access it but the State Highway Patrol can. When they run your info it comes up on their computer that you have a CCW. I have a couple friends who did not disclose because at the time they were not armed. Who were asked out of the vehicle and told to eat dirt all at gun point, once the CCW permit come came up and they did not disclose..

I am pretty sure this is true in every state, but here every CCW holder is given a background check everyday (between 5 am and 7 am I believe). That is why when purchasing a gun there is no background check done just a call to verify CCW permit. I still disclose because 9 out of 10 times I can see the LEO relax just a bit as they now feel they are dealing with a good guy. This obviously could be detrimental to them. But in general I feel I get a lot more respect as a human being with CCW than before. Of course I was 15 years younger so age could be a factor also.

 

[oneshot86]

awesome ride jerry, out there suckin up america

 

[ArmyJerry]

We do have the most beautiful country I have ridden, and I have ridden Europe Asia and s america, most of all we have the nicest people by far. This is our last defense for a lawless government , our good people.

 

[Veer_G]

I hear you man. In my state it was the law to disclose when I first got my CCW. I believe that has changed in the last 5 years or so. With that it is tied to your DL. Not sure if every department can access it but the State Highway Patrol can. When they run your info it comes up on there computer that you have a CCW. I have a couple friends who did not disclose because at the time they were not armed. Who were asked out of the vehicle and told to eat dirt all at gun point, once the CCW permit come came up and they did not disclose..

I am pretty sure this is true in every state, but here every CCW holder is given a background check everyday (between 5 am and 7 am I believe). That is why when purchasing a gun there is no background check done just a call to verify CCW permit. I still disclose because 9 out of 10 times I can see the LEO relax just a bit as they now feel they are dealing with a good guy. This obviously could be detrimental to them. But in general I feel I get a lot more respect as a human being with CCW than before. Of course I was 15 years younger so age could be a factor also.

Hell, they're just relieved that I speak English.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Hell, they're just relieved that I speak English.

I am sure of 2 things. It probably does throw them for a loop. Also that you speak it better than I type it. (as proven by always having to edit myself)

 

[LawnMM]

I don't give a fuck about any cop explanations or rationalizations. Was Castile drawing his gun or not?

Oh wait, he was "jumpy" let's just shoot the fucker.

Oh goodie, another cop bashing thread.

 

[Veer_G]

Oh goodie, another cop bashing thread.

I think what we had here was a jittery cop, perhaps imperfect, trying to deal with what may have been a smoked-out motorist who wasn't hitting on all eight cylinders. As I said in my initial post, whatever the circumstances of the event, and whatever it was that made it result in an acquittal, some folks will be completely incapable of resisting generalization, cops, the police-leery, and perpetually aggrieved minorities alike. We go down this path every once in a while, and almost never with ease or a pleasant outcome. Years ago I got absolutely pilloried for suggesting that a group of breaching officers were "revved up," no matter how obvious that they probably were and rightly should have been. Not all cops are bad, not all minorities bitch and whine about perceived slights and dangers, and cop bashers should desist from generalization and try to come to a more objective appreciation of a truly trying profession.

My 2¢ ...

 

[308pirate]

Oh goodie, another cop bashing thread.

Why don't you answer the question we all want to know?

 

[2ndamendfan]

Fuck the cops. Do that to me and I just won the civil rights violation lottery.

Your dreaming. Cop has knowledge you could have a gun and didn't disclose it. Regardless of if you legally are required to. You have now made him question your motives. Good guys don't run from a crime right. If you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide right?
once the friends were in hand cuffs (2 seperate incidents about 2 years apart). And the whole sutuation was worked out they were sent on their way.
you want to go home to your family and so do they. What ever it takes to make that happen i will do.
Oh you might think "I aint nobody's bitch" but you are. We all are. The IRS, the law, our job/boss, the bank are just a few things we are all a bitch to.
someone has to remain calm or someone (you) is going to get shot. If the cop can't do it then it should be you.
Do i condone the actions discribed above, nope. But I do believe an officer has to do what puts him/her in a state of mind that is not jittery.
If you read my story above about a female officer having her gun unsnapped and hand on it for about 10 mins while we talked/i explained. It was un-fucking nerving. I actually wish she would have put me in hand cuffs if it would have calmed her down. But i am sure she did not want me out of the vehicle. I am 6'1" 300 lbs and she was about 5'6" 120. I am no fighter and maybe she had some moves that would have made me cry like a bitch i don't know. But she sure as hell saw me as some kind of threat.

 

[LawnMM]

No biggie, Veer, just reminded me to update my ignore list now that we're back here on SH.com.

Just happens to be a hot button of mine. People running their mouth about all their tactical knowledge and experience in stressful encounters when they've never done the job. It's the mark of a truly ignorant ass.

But I've found as my ignore list grows my exposure to said segments of walking, talking, idiocy is reduced. Then I'm left with comments from rational human beings. Much more pleasant.

Unfortunately, this will be a consequence of the pussification of our nation's law enforcement. As you clip everyone's balls and shove cameras up all their asses with administrative and criminal action thrown in...the real cops see the writing on the wall and back off.

This means you get jumpy snowflakes being hired. People easily intimidated and scared into reckless reactionary policing. This is going to happen more. They reap what they sow.
​​

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

From my own experience on the street I think the problem was two-fold:

Yes, there are now and always have been guys in uniform that simply shouldn't be. In today's world you have the products of the "zero tolerance" school policies where little boys don't grow up fighting in the playground. That's coupled with the general emasculation of American men in general.

Secondly, we've been in an era of silly-assed "Community Policy" policies that have removed officers from some of the grittier policing tasks. We've also seen widespread removal of "stop and frisk", which is where young cops used to get a ton of valuable experience and desensitizing to typical street bullshit. On top of that, politicians and police supervisors have made it pretty clear that you're gonna have your ass hung out to dry if you get out in the streets and do some tough policing. They'd prefer you shut up and sit under a tree until called.

Having worked the shittiest neighborhoods for most of our careers, my squad mates and I had a pretty good read on when it was time to get down. We were generally amazed when an officer that came from candy land, or from a previous pussy supervisor, would totally over react to a situation. A lot of those guys either had no idea of the appropriate response due to lack of experience with true bad guys, or were (rightfully) a little scared because they were WAY outside of their depth.

I equated it to the guy who lives in Alaska and is used to seeing bears all the time: he knows when to worry and doesn't get ready to shoot every bear he sees. The guy who's never seen a bear in his life is going to have a totally different response.

Say bogey.. wtf happened to Delta4-3/Nightcombatsolutions(pretty sure that was the new name), and Darkside-Six, and V1ctory?? Hope theyre doin alright, aint seen a peep from any of em in quite a while. You heard anything? Im pretty sure V1ctory especially was still in the mix in a big way, best wishes to em..

 

[bogeybrown]

Say bogey.. wtf happened to Delta4-3/Nightcombatsolutions(pretty sure that was the new name), and Darkside-Six, and V1ctory?? Hope theyre doin alright, aint seen a peep from any of em in quite a while. You heard anything? Im pretty sure V1ctory especially was still in the mix in a big way, best wishes to em..

Delta is apparently dealing with some shit, and hasn't been around. DarkSideSix is still around and active, not hard to find. I'm pretty sure Victory made the move back from Scout as well.

 

[Mindreader1]

I'm expecting Colin kaepernick to be all over this

 

[2ndamendfan]

No biggie, Veer, just reminded me to update my ignore list now that we're back here on SH.com.

Just happens to be a hot button of mine. People running their mouth about all their tactical knowledge and experience in stressful encounters when they've never done the job. It's the mark of a truly ignorant ass.

But I've found as my ignore list grows my exposure to said segments of walking, talking, idiocy is reduced. Then I'm left with comments from rational human beings. Much more pleasant.

Unfortunately, this will be a consequence of the pussification of our nation's law enforcement. As you clip everyone's balls and shove cameras up all their asses with administrative and criminal action thrown in...the real cops see the writing on the wall and back off.

This means you get jumpy snowflakes being hired. People easily intimidated and scared into reckless reactionary policing. This is going to happen more. They reap what they sow.
​​

WTF your going to ignore some one who stated that the LEO seemed jittery, and also come out and say this is another LEO bashing thread. What a hypocrite, seriously did the words you just put forth not go through your brain as you let them loose.

You state valid reasons as to why the situation may have happened given current policing polices and standards, your last 2 paragraphs support Veer's point.

We are not (most of us anyway) bashing LEO as a whole group in this thread. We are talking about one officer and a situation involving that officer. I actually take a huge amount of offense to the idea that just because someone puts a uniform on they are some how superior in every way to me and everyone else. I know quite a few LEO and you know what they are human beings, and cover the whole facet of society. Some are the "salt of the earth" and some are douche bags. If you remove the badge and uniform they would be the same people.

I would not and do not support any group being covered with a blanket statement. All LEO suck, all teachers suck, all mechanics are crooks etc... but one bad apple does spoil the whole bunch and the bad apples need to be sent packing.

If a Doctor had botched a dozen back surgeries and left 10 paralyzed (local story few years ago) should he keep his license? Should the medical board defend him? Then why should a LEO get a free pass in life?

I pushed my daughter hard in school and when she wanted to give up at times she would ask me, why does it matter. My answer, no one wants a C doctor, no one wants a C engineer, no one wants a C mechanic. Well I don't want a C officer. I want officers who are actually what you believe them to be and that is A+ people.