I had a rem 700 and upgraded to a Scalpel. Do I need a bore guide and cleaning rods or will the bore snake suffice?
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Boresnake
- Thread starter PO3JDA
- Start date
Bore snake for field quick cleaning, ie making sure there’s no obstructions in the bore.
Rod, jags, patches, and brushes for real cleaning work.
I only clean when accuracy drops off, action is too dirty to operate reliably, or mothballing a gun.
Rod, jags, patches, and brushes for real cleaning work.
I only clean when accuracy drops off, action is too dirty to operate reliably, or mothballing a gun.
A bore snake will work, along with some solvent, for a quickie but will not clean. One issue in leaving one dirty for hundreds of round is the fact that carbon gets harder and harder to remove when it is left in and gets layered (especially if the barrel begins to copper). You are most definitely going to find it more difficult to get clean if you don't clean more often. Number 1 issue, IMO, is carbon ring in the end of chamber and/or in the throat. This is not only an accuracy killer but can cause pressures to jump "over the line" especially if you are already shooting at max pressure levels.
For field use only and they’ll leave crap behind. I take one to the hunting camp but at home standard procedure applies.
Boresnake is all I use. Less chance of damaging the bore. I’ve never had one break. I’ve no interest whatsoever in removing copper so I use only mpro-7. 10 customs and counting all maintaining sub quarter MOA using this method. All looks just fine through the Hawkeye borescope. I own Dewey rods. Just don’t use them anymore.
I need to buy a bore cam of some sort to inspect cleaning and barrel wear mainly for self interest and some Benefit. You really don’t see any copper fouling or a carbon ring ever, and you’re only using a boresnake? Hopes brand by chance?
There is copper fouling left and I indeed want it there. I haven’t checked for a carbon or copper ring as my guns all shoot beyond my expectations and abilities lol. Don’t go looking for a problem with no need of a solution. I bought my borescope for chambering work. Nothing more. If it shoots, go shoot it and don’t keep yourself up and night over it. I wouldn’t worry about a bore scope for cleaning purposes. They’re way too expensive for just that use IMO.
You have to ask yourself whether your primary goal is a clean gun or an accurate gun. Bear in mind there is a difference between “dirty” and “fouled”. I want to keep the gun in as much of a steady state as I can for the sake of consistency. Once I fill the little voids and tooling marks left in the bore with copper fouling, why would I want to uncover them again?
Ever have a patch fit a little too tight? That rod is whacking the rifling any time you deflect it with too much force. Also, when your dragging the rod back and forth in the bore, you’re filing the tops of the lands with the abrasive slurry you create with the carbon and solvent. An excellent way to ruin a rifle is to scrub away at the throat with a cleaning rod, banging the lead angle and dinging the rifling. There’s no solvent that’ll take that out.
If someone can show me some compelling data I would gladly change my behavior, but all I’ve seen to date is conjecture. So, I’ll stick with the Hoppes poors # 1 bore cleaner in the land.
Copper filling voids is a combination of fiction and non modern barrel making procedures. It’s a non issue now.
The best F class and benchrest shooters clean their barrels like new every time. I’m not saying you should, but the reasons listed are not the reasons why you shouldn’t.
Here’s one of the best shooters out there cleaning his barrel. If there was a chance of any “slurry” damaging the lands, this guy would be the one to know:
Bore snake.
I don't break out my boreguide unless I use a rod, which is very rare.
I use my boreguide and a one piece rod to measure concentricity of my can.
I don't break out my boreguide unless I use a rod, which is very rare.
I use my boreguide and a one piece rod to measure concentricity of my can.
Says who? So your bores are all perfect? What do you mean “non modern” barrel making?
Here’s a screen grab of one of the Pratt and Whitney sine bar rifling machines used in Kreiger’s shop. It’s about 90 years old so somewhat less than bleeding edge of technology I’d say. Probably step motor controlled by now, but iron is iron. If you’re lucky enough to have a Kreiger, there’s a good chance it was rifled on one if these. Would you cull a Kreiger?
Even if you have a barrel flawlessly rifled with alien technology, you’re still going to have an ape like me jam an imperfect reamer in it and remove said perfect metal in an imperfect manner, careful as I might be.
Are you saying benchrest shooters clean to this degree just before a match? No fouling beforehand? If cleaner is better, why wouldn’t they want it as clean as possible for best accuracy? Murdica wasn’t cleaning between shots in the testing videos he does for AMP. They don’t because pressure changes as copper is laid down in the virgin clean bore over the course of some number of shots. The want their version of that steady state I mentioned and fouling is a requisite. The fact that they feel it necessary to rip it all out only to have to replace it is a mystery to me. Not my game tho so no judgement from me. Lou Murdica’s cleaning regimen is what he’s developed that works for him, same as my boresnakes. But, it’s just part of a larger system that produces the results he gets. I’m pretty sure Chad Dixon cleans his rifles like NOT EVER. I guarantee all of us shooting off a Harris bipod and a glorified sock don’t fail to shoot groups like that due to a deficient cleaning regimen.
A man can and should do whatever he wants with his toys. I’m just saying I haven’t found merit in that degree of sanitizing, as much as I’ve tried lol. YMMV.
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They clean so they know they have a consistently clean slate. You mention consistency, but you can’t maintain consistency by continually stacking copper and taking out a random amount.
There’s no way to determine how much copper you leave in the bore. Did you clean 50%, 90%, 35%??
So the way that I usually combat this, is only cleaning the barrel once accuracy falls off but cleaning my chamber every 2-3 range days or 1 match. It's cheap insurance against carbon rings or FTF during a match. Keep that chamber clean fellas. As for the bore snake, I use one without solvent/oil before and after each range day to make sure there's no big crap in my barrel so I'd say they are a good tool but not the only one you'll need
Now this is where I will say the current state of barrel making has hit a stride. I don’t seem to see my barrels continually stacking copper. My velocities are very consistent. They all look about the same if you borescope them. To me that’s “steady state”, whatever the degree of fouling is. My match rifle has about 650 rounds in it and I haven’t used a copper solvent since break in.
Now, if I start having accuracy problems, sure I’ll scrub it out and see what happens. Until then...
If you’re just shooting at the range or other such things, waiting until accuracy declines can work.
If you’re shooting matches or expensive hunting trips, you don’t get to decide when the accuracy is going to decline.
As far as culling barrels, I couldn’t care if it’s bartlein, brux, Schneider, Krieger, etc., if it needs more then a round or two to foul, yes, I’d trash it or give it away. Or if it only “shoots good” after 50 rounds or any other such story I hear people say.....it’s junk. Even the good barrel makers aren’t perfect.
Holy shit he used a drill! Mind blown.
Thanks for getting him to share that video.
I run a bore snake thru my rifles every time it goes out shooting. I give it a deep clean with rods, jag and patch when needed. Usually once or maybe twice a season.
I do shoot matches. I would classify myself as more than a casual shooter.
I only asked if you’d cull Kreiger as a brand since they rifle on near 100 year old machines vs more modern equipment, not whether you’d cull a dud barrel or not. How many shooters would trade a Kreiger blank for an X-caliber which is rifled on more modern machinery?
Truthfully without good comparative data on different cleaning regimens we are both just guessing, I realize. No offense meant either. Anybody reading can decide what road they prefer to follow but I’ll be one to say the condition of my bores doesn’t keep me up at night, nor should it for anyone else. My .02. My positional shooting and wind reading ability is another matter.
One other point, a “match” for the guy in the video ranges from five to ten rounds. They are allowed as many sighters as needed before shooting the record target. The same mindset isn’t really feasible for humping a rifle around a PRS course all day for a 100-120 round match etc.
I do use and like bore snakes but the linked article lost me when they referred to a “20 gauge rifle”.
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Bore snakes have their place. Powder fouling... perfect. Removing copper or lead? Rod, brush, and patches.
I have one of those stupid barrels. I have been trying to convince myself not to fleabay it. Dry patch this, 30-40 rounds to re-foul and its low round count. Some people like to dick with stuff. I like to shoot.
How do you guys clean your boresnake? I wash mine in the sink but I’ve always wondered about putting it in the washing machine in a bag or something?
