Hello, so I've upped the ante for rabbit hole infiltration. When it comes to achieving the most consistent reloaded ammunition, what is the ranking for most to least important with segregation, 1) headspace distance (use of Redding Instant Indicator, example some rounds are 0, some are +/-.001, .002, etc), 2) ogive to lands (use of Redding Instant indicator), 3) brass weight, 4) length of brass, or 5) something I'm missing? I use Lapua for 6mmBR, Alpha Munitions & Lapua small rifle for 6.5 Creedmoor and Lapua and Federal GM match for .308. Bullets are all match grade Sierra or Hornady. At the range, I usually have a good group but with 1 "flyer" in 5 probably 7 out of 10 times. Maybe the "flyer" was me or environmental but at least I can have piece of mind that the rounds are as well-prepared as they can be. P.S. no neck-turning, goal is consistency and repeatability for mainly informal target practice and prep for 1000 yard shooting. Thanks.
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Brass consistency hierarchy
- Thread starter YamaS3rider
- Start date
I am curious to see what folks say on this.
When I am trying to load the most accurate rounds that I can- I sort my brass by headspace so all the 0, +1, 2's are in groups. I try to do the same with the ogive to the lands but there I see folks discussing different acceptble levels of variance so I am not sure what the right answer is - still researching.
Ive been told by someone I trust re length that having the longest neck possible that feeds safely and reliably will be the most accurate as there is more brass holding the tip. Makes sense to me.
Brass weight and bullet weight I have been told are none issues least for me and I am shooting only a few hundred yards not 1,000 plus.
When I am trying to load the most accurate rounds that I can- I sort my brass by headspace so all the 0, +1, 2's are in groups. I try to do the same with the ogive to the lands but there I see folks discussing different acceptble levels of variance so I am not sure what the right answer is - still researching.
Ive been told by someone I trust re length that having the longest neck possible that feeds safely and reliably will be the most accurate as there is more brass holding the tip. Makes sense to me.
Brass weight and bullet weight I have been told are none issues least for me and I am shooting only a few hundred yards not 1,000 plus.
Holy overthinking
bump shoulders & size
Trim
Anneal
Throw powder
Seat all to the same CBTO
Not necessarily in that order. But do it the same every single time and on each round.
That has given me 1/4” groups. What are you trying to accomplish?
bump shoulders & size
Trim
Anneal
Throw powder
Seat all to the same CBTO
Not necessarily in that order. But do it the same every single time and on each round.
That has given me 1/4” groups. What are you trying to accomplish?
Check out @Bryan Zolnikov 's posts here and his YouTube videos. You'll get a better feel for what matters and how small you have to shoot for it to matter.
Hey thanks...I do all of those steps....however, every 0.002 shoulder bump doesn't always end up that way. Same w/seating, even using competition seat dies. I'm OCD so I use a Lee Powder dispenser and then trickle and I'm 99% of the time +/- 0.1 grain. I would be happy with consistent/repeatable 0.25" Good on ya, mate!
I’m not trying to be rude. But when you’re doing those things chances are your rifle and ammo is going to outshoot you. Believe me, I’ve spent my fair share of overthinking. So coming from experience.
But stressing over .001 variance is CBTO likely is not going to make your groups smaller. Buy the best equipment you can for reloading, do everything consistently and just shoot. Your rifle can most likely shoot a repeatable .25 but can you? That’s what it always comes down to for me.
I took no offense to what you wrote and it wasn't rude, we're all just learning here
A few weeks ago, I was out plinking with my friends and pulled out one of their .308Win factory rifle with factory ammo. I loaded the thing and when looking into the scope, the POI shifted down like a foot. I checked the action and it was super loose. I could move the barrel up and down about 1/4 inch. I asked if anybody has Allen wrenches (I was 1200 miles from home and didn’t bring my shooting gear) but nobody had any. I went ahead and shot anyway. I held the tang down with my thumb. I ended up shooting about 15 3x3” glass pieces on the first shot from 100 yards. If that was my only experience with a loose action and all I want to do is shoot big targets, I’d tell you that a loose action doesn’t matter. Now, when I tested action screw torque on a bench rest rifle trying to shoot a .1” aggregate, action screw torque was a major factor in precision. All that to say, yes, do the things that fit with your goals. If just shooting 3x3” plates at 100 yards is the goal, you can do that with factory rifle and ammo even when the rifle is not properly configured. If you want tiny aggs, then you’re going to have to do quite a bit to make that happen. I don’t write this to discourage shooters though because you can get out there and agg small. I had a new shooter who I mentored in two short months who started shootings bench rest and he actually won an agg here and there his first year. His next year, he was the NBRSA NW regional shooter of the year! It can be done!
Are we talking about runout of a loaded round with an indicator on the bullet? If so, you'll be pretty hard pressed to find that causing any issues. Many have tested up to .010 or more runout and not found any correlation on the target.
Also, the runout can only be as much as the clearance on the freebore. If the bullet has more runout than freebore clearance, its forced back as it's chambered.
Also, the runout can only be as much as the clearance on the freebore. If the bullet has more runout than freebore clearance, its forced back as it's chambered.
When I was at MHSA, we had a customer create a spreadsheet for brass consistency of Alpha vs. Lapua. Alpha won by a long shot. Not that Lapua was bad, Alpha was just that good.
The hefty majority of brass weight variation can be directly linked back to the extractor groove cut. Most of the brass on the market is very consistent for volume (from the same lot), too. We've got a tool that's much more consistent and faster than water weight, and as it turns out when you draw-form parts using dies and punches that are controlled to the 0.000x" range, internal volume comes out very similar. I've tested the same case for 20x firings and the velocity spreads were identical to 20x different new cases (after the 1st firing on the repeat-use case).
You can screw up precision with brass by doing it VERY wrong, but by and large brass of the same mfg. same lot brass prep is a placebo until you get into the world of being competitive in BR, F-Class, etc. I don't think twice about grabbing factory new brass from pretty much anyone to load develop and shoot PRS/NRL matches or go hunting without more prep than straightening out & chamfering necks.
You can screw up precision with brass by doing it VERY wrong, but by and large brass of the same mfg. same lot brass prep is a placebo until you get into the world of being competitive in BR, F-Class, etc. I don't think twice about grabbing factory new brass from pretty much anyone to load develop and shoot PRS/NRL matches or go hunting without more prep than straightening out & chamfering necks.
This has been my experience for quite a while as well. Weight variation was almost always below the bottom of the internal capacity. So weight sorting didn't do much. Once you move into volume sorting, most are too close to matter unless looking at extremes.
I'm not sure when the last time I used fired brass for a PRS match. Mostly just use virgin and sell the brass after for 80% or so what it cost new. That's cheaper than taking time to size brass when we could be using the same time to do other customer related things.
By what criteria ? Internal case volume ? Wall thickness consistency all around the neck ?
1) you do not want a hard bolt close as “flier” 2) you want seating depth in a “window of some forgiveness” 3) brass weight often correlated poorly with case capacity. If OCD, do water weight and cull. Easy. 4) inadequate neck clearance = finicky. Should have a sine wave of carbon on the outside neck 5) is your “ delivery” perfected ? If holding, same pressures on the rifle every time. If free-recoil, nose-heavy is bad. 6) all trimmed to same length 7) if you are unaware of the Wind, get flags. Surveyors tape is better than nothing. 8) if all parameters met, should get a .25” group at 100 across a full grain. At 1000, weigh to .02 grains. 9) check action screw torque, etc. 10) have a friend video you.
Yes.
I cannot recall all the measurements he took exactly but pretty much what you would measure to compare quality of brass. I believe it was 6.5 PRC. Again, the Lapua was very good but the Alpha was better.
