Night Vision Breach versus Coti

[mako15]

Application is SHTF/self-defense.

I have a PVS-14, a DTNVGS, and a MAWL coming.

DTNVGS on head, PVS-14 and MAWL on rifle.

Which would you recommend and why? Breach versus Coti.

Or even MH25 possibly.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Choid]

How many eyes do you have?

 

[mako15]

lol - OK so maybe I am heading into "overdoing it". You can let me know that too - lol

 

[Lowdown3]

Your Breach and your PVS14 can't mate and make a Fusion baby... but you can put a COTI on your PVS14 or dtn and it will make a Fusion view there.

 

[Choid]

lol - OK so maybe I am heading into "overdoing it". You can let me know that too - lol

There are a lot of things you could pick up that would be useful, but it seems like you have got a lot of stuff for your head right now. Coti would be very good. I mean, if you are really worried about a SHTF situation, how much gear do you want to be fucking around with all the time? Just my opinion.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Ok, it is tough choice. If I could only have one, I would take the Breach because it is a lot handier than a COTI and does not have to be helmet mounted and can work very well stand alone all by itself. Plus I can pass it to someone like a wife, child etc for them to use easily with very little practice.

However, the COTI is the Cats Meow if you are really gonna do the dance on a two way scenario/shtf. It is only good when used with your NV but it and a good laser will afford you a lot of horse power.

Now here is the catch. We probably getting at the tail end of available new COTI's. So if I were you I would grab the COTI first and have in hand and pick up a Breach later.

They both serve important roles pretty well.

 

[WhereNow&How]

if you are really worried about a SHTF situation, how much gear do you want to be fucking around with all the time? Just my opinion.

Enough to be a force multiplier that it is a game changer for real, especially in the hands of someone with skill.

 

[WhereNow&How]

lol - OK so maybe I am heading into "overdoing it". You can let me know that too - lol

You are not overdoing it. I would ditch putting a 14 on the rifle. Betta to put a Primary Arms Cyclops on rifle with 3x Magnifier behind it. That away you have a day and night rifle.

FYI the Cyclops is EMP proof in that its reticle is etched in the glass and it has a diopter for vision correction. I laid down my Aimpoint T2's and swapped them out for the Primary Arms Cyclops cause it is a way MO BETTA sight in all the categories.

 

[jwramp]

Skip the Breach. If you're wanting to spend COTI money on a dedicated thermal, there's wayyyy better options than the Breach.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Skip the Breach. If you're wanting to spend COTI money on a dedicated thermal, there's wayyyy better options than the Breach.

JW, tell me what and why is better than the Breach at $2,000 ish in all around features.

 

[jwramp]

JW, tell me what and why is better than the Breach at $2,000 ish in all around features.

Lowest I've seen COTIs for is $3k. Damn, didn't realize they want $2500 for the Breaches - that seems like robbery for how poor I thought they looked in person. I'd be much more interested in one of the Hogsters that range from $2300-$3200. The magnification would be nice if he's wanting to flip a tube up and scan. If he wants 1x I'd just stick with the COTI. You could get a 640x Helion for what, $3.5-4k? The Bering Phenom is 640 right? At $3.2k? That'd be wayyy higher up my list than a Breach.

EDIT - maybe I misunderstood what you were asking. I was trying to say if the COTI is in play, I'm assuming the OP was cool with paying $3k for a thermal. If that's the budget, I'd go COTI or Phenom. Probly Phenom actually...

 

[mako15]

Thank you all for the advice. Given the 3K Coti price, I think I'll grab one and try to sell it when the E-coti's become available.
I really want a skeetIRX as its weapon mountable and see's great but I need something with that capability at a more reasonable number than 15K.
I'll keep researching, and saving for that end. For now, Coti it is. Anything more to add, please keep it coming.

 

[mako15]

Definitely will check out the Cyclops. You had me at diopter

You are not overdoing it. I would ditch putting a 14 on the rifle. Betta to put a Primary Arms Cyclops on rifle with 3x Magnifier behind it. That away you have a day and night rifle.

FYI the Cyclops is EMP proof in that its reticle is etched in the glass and it has a diopter for vision correction. I laid down my Aimpoint T2's and swapped them out for the Primary Arms Cyclops cause it is a way MO BETTA sight in all the categories.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Definitely will check out the Cyclops. You had me at diopter

Trust me when I say, it hurts to lay down $800 Aimpoint T2's for a much better Red Dot with very fine aiming reticle that is $240 bucks and bomb proof but it is what it is. Yeah I was late getting into them myself compared to many others. I'm a believer now for sure.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Lowest I've seen COTIs for is $3k. Damn, didn't realize they want $2500 for the Breaches - that seems like robbery for how poor I thought they looked in person. I'd be much more interested in one of the Hogsters that range from $2300-$3200. The magnification would be nice if he's wanting to flip a tube up and scan. If he wants 1x I'd just stick with the COTI. You could get a 640x Helion for what, $3.5-4k? The Bering Phenom is 640 right? At $3.2k? That'd be wayyy higher up my list than a Breach.

EDIT - maybe I misunderstood what you were asking. I was trying to say if the COTI is in play, I'm assuming the OP was cool with paying $3k for a thermal. If that's the budget, I'd go COTI or Phenom. Probly Phenom actually...

The big thing is he was setting up for self defense/SHTF. So that is somewhat different than greatest hunting setup.

In a grid down situation, the Breach has lots of advantages other units do not have.

1. Very small and compact.
2. Stand alone or helmet mounted.
3. Mod Armory Battery Extender allows you to run 16650 rechargeable batteries that you can charge with portable Solar Panels. Having excellent power solutions without having to run external cables is a YUGE plus.
https://www.modarmory.com/product/battery-extender-for-flir-breach-ptq136-thermal-monocular/
4. Pretty tough and rugged little unit.
5. Relatively low cost compared to other units. Treat the whole family so to speak.

I got some pretty good higher performing thermal, but also love me some Breach for what it is excellent for.

 

[TheHorta]

You are not overdoing it. I would ditch putting a 14 on the rifle. Betta to put a Primary Arms Cyclops on rifle with 3x Magnifier behind it. That away you have a day and night rifle.

FYI the Cyclops is EMP proof in that its reticle is etched in the glass and it has a diopter for vision correction. I laid down my Aimpoint T2's and swapped them out for the Primary Arms Cyclops cause it is a way MO BETTA sight in all the categories.

This is why I love my Elcans, especially the 1/4. True 1x RDS for most stuff, instant 4x without taking your eye away from the optic. Etched BDC reticle, NV mode, RDS mode, LPVO mode, RMR ready if you want it, bomb proof, waterproof, aligns perfectly with every clip-on out there — LWTS, CRATOS, UTC, UTM, SkeetIR-x, PVS-24/27/30, etc.

Sure, it’s $1500, but Worth. Every. Penny.

If I simply HAD to leave the house in an instant with a single rifle — 5 minutes tops — it would be with:

KAC SR-15 E3 Mod 2
Elcan SpecterDR 1/4x
L3 CRATOS
Raid-X
SF M640 DF
Unity Hot Button

I *might* think about the 1.5/6x instead, but I like the true 1x a smidge better than having 6x on the long end.

 

[WhereNow&How]

The magnification would be nice if he's wanting to flip a tube up and scan.

I have also used PTS 233's as hand scanners. I run my dual 14's pretty far out, mainly to stop any fogging up and for situational awareness of easily being able to monitor ambient light plus easily be able to look to the side or under my NODs. But here is another by product advantage of running your NODS way out from your eyes.

I can have my NODS completely down centered on my eyes and there is plenty of room to slide the PTS 233 ocular eyepiece in at a 45% angle up to my eye and hand scan without every shifting my NODS at all. So no need for me to flip or rotate a NOD out of the way to hand scan.

 

[TheHorta]

I generally push any NOD as far away from my face as allows me to barely see the entire image. I don’t need to see the internal NOD tunnel, and every millimeter closer to my face shaves-off feet worth of peripheral vision at distance.

The downside is detectable light spill on your face. Not a problem for 99% of us, but if there’s some OPFOR out there, you can see that with your naked eye from a surprising distance. That’s why Wilcox orange filters were all the rage with 15’s a few years back. They really did help with light splash on your face, but most guys skipped them because they just didn’t like orange.

 

[jwramp]

I can have my NODS completely down centered on my eyes and there is plenty of room to slide the PTS 233 ocular eyepiece in at a 45% angle up to my eye and hand scan without every shifting my NODS at all. So no need for me to flip or rotate a NOD out of the way to hand scan.

Cool? OP specifically said they've got DTNVGs on the way, so I was responding with that in mind. Sounds like they've got some pretty decent budget available soon, so just passing along some experience that I think there's better options than the Breach. I think $2.5k is way overpriced for the performance I've seen from them and would be very interested to try out that Phenom some time. The 640x would be a huge step up at a price better than the CoronaSkeet.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I generally push any NOD as far away from my face as allows me to barely see the entire image. I don’t need to see the internal NOD tunnel, and every millimeter closer to my face shaves-off feet worth of peripheral vision at distance.

The downside is detectable light spill on your face. Not a problem for 99% of us, but if there’s some OPFOR out there, you can see that with your naked eye from a surprising distance. That’s why Wilcox orange filters were all the rage with 15’s a few years back. They really did help with light splash on your face, but most guys skipped them because they just didn’t like orange.

Them Wilcox filters are crap and waste of money. Degrade the crap out of the image. Ask me how I know.

Sure Shot SNB is where it's at. Improve the crap out of the image, preserve your natural night vision and cut the splash back on your face to a point you do not need eyecups if worried about OPFOR. Love them dam filters. Jay knocked the ball out the park with them.

 

[TheHorta]

Cool? OP specifically said they've got DTNVGs on the way, so I was responding with that in mind. Sounds like they've got some pretty decent budget available soon, so just passing along some experience that I think there's better options than the Breach. I think $2.5k is way overpriced for the performance I've seen from them and would be very interested to try out that Phenom some time. The 640x would be a huge step up at a price better than the CoronaSkeet.

Gotta admit, 640px, HD OLED display, 14 ounces, $3500 — the BO Phenom sounds phenomenal. Tempted to get one as a travel unit instead of worrying about a $15K Skeet in my carry-on.

That said, for only an extra $1K you can get a ChinaSkeet with PVS eyepiece. Lighter and likely better image quality.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Yeah, they were doing ok with the Phenom, till they designed a dedicated battery in it. That in itself is a deal killer for me.

 

[TheHorta]

Them Wilcox filters are crap and waste of money. Degrade the crap out of the image. Ask me how I know.

Sure Shot SNB is where it's at. Improve the crap out of the image, preserve your natural night vision and cut the splash back on your face to a point you do not need eyecups if worried about OPFOR. Love them dam filters. Jay knocked the ball out the park with them.

I had a bunch of Wilcox orange filters years back. They weren’t that bad. Didn’t degrade the image, but the orange color was... off-putting. They work spectacularly well on the MTM and other thermals that would burn your eyeballs out because they were so damn bright!

 

[stefan73]

Dang, I just looked through ModArmory and saw the old W1000. I remember when Raytheon was trying to get me to try one out and was going to loan me one for about a month while I was at FT Benning back in 1999. Blast from the past. I know these are newer upgraded versions of that one from back then, but still a nice little blast from the past.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Dang, I just looked through ModArmory and saw the old W1000. I remember when Raytheon was trying to get me to try one out and was going to loan me one for about a month while I was at FT Benning back in 1999. Blast from the past. I know these are newer upgraded versions of that one from back then, but still a nice little blast from the past.

Ain't this it. That aint a little blast. That is a full size blast.

 

[mako15]

After years of faithful service I sold my Elecan SpectreDR 1/4x last month. Reason, no diopter (getting older). Went to Schmidt and Bender 1-8CC. Lacks some of the features like etched reticle but goes to 8x and is lighter with the mount. Nothing to discount with that brick, although a well made and quite useful brick. Loved the quick throw to go from 1x to 4x. Not so with the S&B and its long throw to 4 and even longer to 8. But I can see the reticle now all the time

Rifle with PVS-14 sports an Aimpoint T1 for now.

I'd buy another SpectreDr in a heartbeat if they added diopter.

This is why I love my Elcans, especially the 1/4. True 1x RDS for most stuff, instant 4x without taking your eye away from the optic. Etched BDC reticle, NV mode, RDS mode, LPVO mode, RMR ready if you want it, bomb proof, waterproof, aligns perfectly with every clip-on out there — LWTS, CRATOS, UTC, UTM, SkeetIR-x, PVS-24/27/30, etc.

Sure, it’s $1500, but Worth. Every. Penny.

If I simply HAD to leave the house in an instant with a single rifle — 5 minutes tops — it would be with:

KAC SR-15 E3 Mod 2
Elcan SpecterDR 1/4x
L3 CRATOS
Raid-X
SF M640 DF
Unity Hot Button

I *might* think about the 1.5/6x instead, but I like the true 1x a smidge better than having 6x on the long end.