Gunsmithing Broke bolt face GRRRRR

[coldboremiracle]

Riddle me this; while shooting today, my bolt face broke

It's a PTG bolt, and I assume when it was built that the standard bolt face was bushed down to a .223 boltface. Later, I had a Sako extractor installed, which appears to have been cut through the bushing, and I assume that's why it broke. The loads fired were mild and no signs of pressure have ever been seen in this rifle.

Here is what it looks like with the piece put back in:

Popped out

Sitting atop the bolt face just above where it should be

It popped out mid-string, I did notice a slight chambering issue, but after the second try, it went in and fired without a problem.

How do I fix this? New bolt,new bushing,glue piece back in with JBweld or bubble gum? Help

 

[nicholst55]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

I expect that a new bolt is the 'right way' to fix it. J-B Weld, hmmm......

 

[gathert]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

Fill it in entirely with JB weld? Seems like a very difficult fix with very little to work with if you didn't get a new one instead.

 

[LRI]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

If it were me:

A new bolt if $ is not an issue. This can be repaired easily and permanently too though.

It should be silver soldered so that its permanent.

That's my fix and I can do it if you like.

Be glad to helps!

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

Some may laugh and think what the hell but if it were mine personally I would clean it good with a degreaser and epoxy it in place with JB or whatever. It didn't really 'break' as the insert was machined into 2 pieces with the extractor and ejector cuts. The solder or epoxy(whichever was used just released on the 1 side. There is no pressure on either piece just line up the case head with the bolt so ejector and extractor work.

But this is just me thinkin.........

 

[arrowslinger#1]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

dude that sucks

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It should be silver soldered so that its permanent.

That's my fix and I can do it if you like.
</div></div>

Bless you sir! forgive the ignorance, but how is such a thing done? Not real familiar with the soldering thing. And what would it cost?

 

[ugsly]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

For the cost of sending it to a smith to have it silver soldered I would look at spending alittle more and getting a new bolt. Just my thoughts.

Good luck,
Kc

 

[farrier]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

There is nothing wrong with the bolt itself so I wouldn't replace. The bushing half could be silver soldered back in and forgotten about. Remington attaches bolt handles this way and (most) last the lifetime of the weapon while undergoing quite a bit more stress than the piece that was cut through

 

[eddieharren]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

I have had several bolts come through my shop where the Sako installer opted for epoxy or, bearing retainer instead of solder. Most of the time solvents dissolve the epoxy or retainer. As Chad said, soldering is the solution.

 

[LRI]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

"Fitty" sheckels.

C.

 

[JCH]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

coldbore if you wouldn't have spiral fluted your bolt that would have never happened. Don't you read the posts on here, spiral fluting is only for people who don't shoot their guns and weakens anything and everything

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

Don't over think it.....simple solder job.

 

[LRI]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

Soldering is pretty simple. So long as a guy can manage his heat and doesn't use half a stick of the stuff he'll be fine.

Issues for the inexperienced:

1. A pile of it runs down the ejector hole. (making the assumption he was smert enough to remove the ejector first. If not, he's in for a really bad day.

2. Some runs down the striker hole. Again, lets hope the striker was removed first.

3. Scorching the surrounding material and (heaven forbid) softening the lugs. This would be an extreme case as you'd have to really work to screw this up, but anything is possible as I've come to learn.

The only way you get good at this stuff is by doing it. A lot of it. 4 years ago I didn't know dick about soldering. 3 years in a vintage motorcycle shop got me some experience to where now I feel pretty good about it. I'm not soldering gum wrappers yet, but maybe someday I'll get my black belt.

Note:

Bear in mind the moment I/anyone puts a torch to this thing the opposite side bushing is likely to fall off as well. Count on it if it was epoxied into place.

Epoxy (no epoxy) is going to tolerate a flame from a torch. So, just know up front that both sides will have to be "fixed."

C.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugsly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the cost of sending it to a smith to have it silver soldered I would look at spending alittle more and getting a new bolt. Just my thoughts.

Good luck,
Kc </div></div>


and if you get that shiny new bolt installed and find out that it doesn't quite headspace correctly? or find out the handle doesn't time properly?

personally, i'd get this one repaired. $50 to repair this is a whole lot cheaper than a new bolt, especially if any fitting is required.

 

[Joe40x]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

New fluted bolt= about $250
True up boltface=$?
Check and adjust firing pin projection=$?
Lap lugs=$?
Check and adjust headspace=$?


Silver solder bushing back in=$50!
Hey, it's your money...

 

[mcfred]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

Can you tell how the first bushing was installed? Was it glued? I have a 243 bolt that was filled with epoxy and cut back out for a sako extractor. It's not ideal but it has held up just fine.

 

[dinc]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

Call PTG?

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

How does PTG hold that half-ring in to begin with?





Some people pin/epoxy bushings into bolt faces; hell I was taught that way. But I'd never use epoxy again.

Let Chad solder it. That's prolly what I'd do.

 

[ackleyfan]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugsly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the cost of sending it to a smith to have it silver soldered I would look at spending alittle more and getting a new bolt. Just my thoughts.

Good luck,
Kc </div></div>


and if you get that shiny new bolt installed and find out that it doesn't quite headspace correctly? or find out the handle doesn't time properly?

personally, i'd get this one repaired. $50 to repair this is a whole lot cheaper than a new bolt, especially if any fitting is required. </div></div>

Can't imagine PTG not designing the bolts with extra metal that can be remove for timing and headspace issues!

 

[300sniper]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ackleyfan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugsly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the cost of sending it to a smith to have it silver soldered I would look at spending alittle more and getting a new bolt. Just my thoughts.

Good luck,
Kc </div></div>


and if you get that shiny new bolt installed and find out that it doesn't quite headspace correctly? or find out the handle doesn't time properly?

personally, i'd get this one repaired. $50 to repair this is a whole lot cheaper than a new bolt, especially if any fitting is required. </div></div>

Can't imagine PTG not designing the bolts with extra metal that can be remove for timing and headspace issues!
</div></div>

and taking that new bolt you just spend a bunch of money on AND the rifle to a smith for fitting is going to cost a whole lot more than just sending this bolt out for repair. the op's problem is a simple and affordable fix. there's no need to over complicate it.

 

[Papagrizzly]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

Fifty Bucks from Chad is a screaming deal! More like a favor to a Hide member is what it sounds like.

I have done silver soldering and its a "little" bit more involved. Need to have it flow perfect for maximum strength. JB Weld would not be the right solution for this as there is a lot of heat and pressure on the bolt face.

 

[CaptLink]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Papagrizzly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fifty Bucks from Chad is a screaming deal! More like a favor to a Hide member is what it sounds like.

I have done silver soldering and its a "little" bit more involved. Need to have it flow perfect for maximum strength. JB Weld would not be the right solution for this as there is a lot of heat and pressure on the bolt face. </div></div>
I'm a gunsmith and Chad is offering a Zero profit repair for you and that's how the OM did it to start albeit not well.

 

[stangfish]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

"I'm a gunsmith and Chad is offering a Zero profit repair for you and that's how the OM did it to start albeit not well."

Fair deal. Zero profit would mean that the siver and the gas equaled $50. Well and overhead for 15 minutes. Send it to Chad.

 

[ackleyfan]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ackleyfan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugsly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the cost of sending it to a smith to have it silver soldered I would look at spending alittle more and getting a new bolt. Just my thoughts.

Good luck,
Kc </div></div>


and if you get that shiny new bolt installed and find out that it doesn't quite headspace correctly? or find out the handle doesn't time properly?

personally, i'd get this one repaired. $50 to repair this is a whole lot cheaper than a new bolt, especially if any fitting is required. </div></div>

Can't imagine PTG not designing the bolts with extra metal that can be remove for timing and headspace issues!
</div></div>

and taking that new bolt you just spend a bunch of money on AND the rifle to a smith for fitting is going to cost a whole lot more than just sending this bolt out for repair. the op's problem is a simple and affordable fix. there's no need to over complicate it. </div></div>

I agree that a soldered in bushing is the way to go with his issue, but my point is there is no reason a good smith couldn't headspace and time the bolt if a guy decides to get a new bolt!

 

[Tactical Support]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugsly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the cost of sending it to a smith to have it silver soldered I would look at spending alittle more and getting a new bolt. Just my thoughts.

Good luck,
Kc </div></div>


and if you get that shiny new bolt installed and find out that it doesn't quite headspace correctly? or find out the handle doesn't time properly?

personally, i'd get this one repaired. $50 to repair this is a whole lot cheaper than a new bolt, especially if any fitting is required. </div></div>

$50.00 beats $175.00 plus fitting of the new bolt and 6 to 8 weeks wait on the new bolt.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

I've seen this before. The cause of it is a combination of two issues:

1. If it was silver soldered, there was not good flow all the way around the joint. This might have been OK, if it wasn't for the second issue.

2. The bushing is too small in diameter. After the bushing is fitted and soldered, then the ejector tunnel is reamed and the extractor notch is cut. After these operations, you essentially have two small pieces of the bushing, instead of a continuous ring. Now if the solder job was good, then it would be OK, but it's not, then a piece of the bushing will pop out.

The fix:

The bolt face needs to be enlarged to accept a larger diameter bushing, beyond the ejector cut, so the only gap there will be is the extractor cutout, then a good solder job. The combination of one piece bushing and larger solder joint is the fix.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Broke bolt face GRRRRR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buffybuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The bolt face needs to be enlarged to accept a larger diameter bushing, beyond the ejector cut, so the only gap there will be is the extractor cutout, then a good solder job. The combination of one piece bushing and larger solder joint is the fix. </div></div>

That sounds like a good idea, but I still haven't decided on a course of action yet. Sounds like a good excuse to go visit Sturgis