Budget 308 AR10 Sub 3/4moa Build Thread

[padom]

For those of you that have followed my various AR15 and AR10 builds they have all been with high end parts, custom barrels, etc. I decided to do a budget AR10 build to see how it stacks up accuracy wise to say my $3000+ MEGA/Bartlein... I will post the build and testing here in this thread. First up will be a 18" WIlson .308 416R SS Fluted Heavy Barrel 1/10. The goal for this barrel is 0.75moa or less. I will then test Rainier's brand new Mod2 6.5cm barrel.

Here is the budget build parts list

Aero Precision M5 308 Receiver Set - $189.99
18" Wilson 308 SS Fluted Barrel - $140.00
FailZero EXO Coated 308 BCG - $199.95
A2 Stock with Rifle Buffer/Spring - $69.99
Aero Lower Parts Kit No FCG - $45.00
Aero Upper Parts - $24.00
Geissele SD-E Trigger $180.00
Seekins AGB - $57.00
WMD Melonite Rifle Gas Tube - $16.50
ERGO Tactical Deluxe Grip - $39.00
I have an extra forend laying on the bench I will use but we can throw $200 in for it. Odin Works Keymod

Total Budget 308 Build Cost - $1161.00
Total Budget 6.5cm Build Cost - $1571.00
***(I wouldn't call this a budget 6.5cm build cost because the barrel is a high end $550.00 barrel I will be testing. You could get something like a Rainier Match 6.5cm barrel for $450 or a BA barrel for $315 and get the total cost down to $1450 or $1350).

If this Wilson 308 barrel shoots like all the WOA's that use WIlson blanks that I have or had in the past I dont think the 3/4moa goal will be hard to achieve with handloads . I am waiting to here back from my contact at Rainier what blank they used for their new MOD2 6.5cm Ultramatch barrel and what bolt its headspaced to. Their previous 6.5cm barrel used a Shillen blank and I believe was headspaced to a JP bolt.

 

[padom]

Just received the 18" Wilson barrel from the post man. JSE shipped it super fast. I am very impressed with the barrel for $140.00. Cant wait to test it.

 

[8up]

Padom, watching for your results. Going to have to say both will be accurate shooters though. I have three receiver sets itching to be built into something. Need more glass to top them off.

 

[Mikhailovich]

Very interested to see how this turns out

 

[padom]

I think all the parts will be here by Thursday. If that's the case I will get it together Thursday and hopefully get out to do initial testing Friday.

I fully prepped some 1xLC '11 brass that I will use for initial function testing. I also grabbed some 168 and 178 ELD-Ms and 175smk for load development. I will be using virgin Lapua 308 Small primer brass for that. I've had 3 new boxes sitting here for a long time without a 308 rifle.

 

[bigjake83]

I think all the parts will be here by Thursday. If that's the case I will get it together Thursday and hopefully get out to do initial testing Friday.

I fully prepped some 1xLC '11 brass that I will use for initial function testing. I also grabbed some 168 and 178 ELD-Ms and 175smk for load development. I will be using virgin Lapua 308 Small primer brass for that. I've had 3 new boxes sitting here for a long time without a 308 rifle.

Ever wonder what a .308 would feel like with the + 2 gas tube setup??

 

[propeine]

One small problem...that Wilson barrel, if it is the same as the Wilson barrel I just received is Armalite pattern not DPMS pattern...The gas length measures 13.509 from the end of the extension to the flange not 13.25. I don't know that your BCG will fit but the gas tube will need to be armalite spec for sure. JSE also doesn't accept returns on BLEMS as I just found out....anyone need an Armalite barrel lol?

 

[8up]

It may just be the gas length of a Armalite system on the Wilson barrel. You might just need to get a Armalite gas tube. I have a BHW barrel cut that way, and all my platforms are DMPS style. Unless that barrel has a Armalite barrel extension, whole different story.

 

[propeine]

It may just be the gas length of a Armalite system on the Wilson barrel. You might just need to get a Armalite gas tube. I have a BHW barrel cut that way, and all my platforms are DMPS style. Unless that barrel has a Armalite barrel extension, whole different story.

As long as headspace gauges work out it doesn't seem to matter. Checking headspace is a necessary thing on LR308 stuff for sure. Hopefully it is just the gas tube like you said.

 

[padom]

That pisses me off because nothing was mentioned in the product description that this was an Armalite AR10 pattern barrel... Hopefully its just the gas tube which I have read that some people have had to use Armalite gas tubes in their new new DPMS pattern AR10 barrels. Ordering a Armalite AR10 rifle length gas tube now.

 

[propeine]

That pisses me off because nothing was mentioned in the product description that this was an Armalite AR10 pattern barrel... Hopefully its just the gas tube which I have read that some people have had to use Armalite gas tubes in their new new DPMS pattern AR10 barrels. Ordering a Armalite AR10 rifle length gas tube now.

Worst case the headspace is .004 short. Nothing a 308 reamer can't fix even by hand but it is irritating as hell. Just thought I'd give you the heads up.

 

[8up]

Had two barrels that way. A BHW .308 barrel with a armalite mid length system, and a Criterion 6.5 Creedmoor barrel in rifle length. Nothing makes me more mad than when you get a barrel, not described which length it has, and have to order a gas tube in armalite length.

 

[padom]

If.its just the gas tube I don't be too mad. Headspace is what worries me.

 

[padom]

Ok so my Aero Upper/Lower arrived today. I have the upper put together minus the gas block and gas tube (will be here tomorrow). Barrel installed just fine and headspace is good so this barrel is GTG. Gas block and rifle gas tube will be here tomorrow. I also ordered an Armalite rifle gas tube as well just in case. If it ends up needing the Armalite gas tube Im good with the extra $14.00. No big deal. Everything else checks out good.

 

[padom]

All my parts arrived today and just finished putting it together. Gas length is Rifle length, not Armalite rifle. 100% confirmed. My Forster 308 dies wont be here till tomorrow so Im going to pick up some cheap 308 factory ammo to tune gas block and function test and hopefully they have some FGMM or Hornady ELD ammo on the shelf. Man I havent bought factory ammo in FOREVER!!

 

[Sniperstud]

I saw where you said you sourced your barrel from JSE. I'm not familiar with that abbreviation. I found JSE Surplus, but their price on that barrel is almost double what you paid. Would you mind clarifying the name of the supplier for me. I need a barrel for a DPMS pattern rifle.

 

[padom]

JSE surplus is it. They only had like 5 or 6 for each on special buy.

 

[padom]

So I just got back from testing this thing out. I picked up 2 boxes of Hornady Whitetail 150g Interlock ammo and a box of Hornady Match 168 Amax. The options were limited and I havent bought factory ammo in years. The gun functioned great once I got the gas tuned properly and a rough zero. Ejected all brass and locked back on last round using KAC mags. The 168 Amax printed 5 shot groups that measured between 0.75"-0.80" at 100yds. The Interlock was grouping 3 shots in a clover leaf and the other 2 shots opened the groups up to between 1moa and 1.5moa.

All in all, not bad for the first time out and factory ammo. I will get some loads worked up over the weekend and get out Monday or Tuesday to test them.

 

[Bakwa]

I'm not sure that I've shot 168 Amax out of any rifle that hasn't printed it at, or under, 1 inch. It's just a good factory load. Glad to see those result out of this experiment as well.

 

[Sniperstud]

JSE surplus is it. They only had like 5 or 6 for each on special buy.

I was afraid of that. Thanks. Glad to see your rifle is grouping well. Hornady makes great factory ammo. 168 grain AMAX TAP has been my duty load for seventeen years. I've run it through fifteen different rifles and it has consistently been a 1/2 to 3/4 MOA load in every one, with frequent sub 1/2 MOA groups in some rifles.

 

[propeine]

So I just got back from testing this thing out. I picked up 2 boxes of Hornady Whitetail 150g Interlock ammo and a box of Hornady Match 168 Amax. The options were limited and I havent bought factory ammo in years. The gun functioned great once I got the gas tuned properly and a rough zero. Ejected all brass and locked back on last round using KAC mags. The 168 Amax printed 5 shot groups that measured between 0.75"-0.80" at 100yds. The Interlock was grouping 3 shots in a clover leaf and the other 2 shots opened the groups up to between 1moa and 1.5moa.

All in all, not bad for the first time out and factory ammo. I will get some loads worked up over the weekend and get out Monday or Tuesday to test them.

You're giving me good feels about these barrels! Thanks for the range report.

 

[padom]

You're giving me good feels about these barrels! Thanks for the range report.

For $140 I was extremely impressed. Its a solid barrel for sure. Cant wait to really get into testing with handloads. I also caved and bought the new Magpul PRS Gen3 from Primary Arms. They have it on sale right now for $199. I just didnt like the A2 stock. Hard plastic butt pad digs into your shoulder, need a riser pad for cheek weld. By the time you do all that, you just should have gotten a PRS or Luth.... GOnna sell the A2

 

[padom]

I was afraid of that. Thanks. Glad to see your rifle is grouping well. Hornady makes great factory ammo. 168 grain AMAX TAP has been my duty load for seventeen years. I've run it through fifteen different rifles and it has consistently been a 1/2 to 3/4 MOA load in every one, with frequent sub 1/2 MOA groups in some rifles.

JSE Surplus still has 4 of these Wilson barrels left (non fluted version)... You have to look in the discontinued section. They call them blems or whatever but I was told they were demo barrels. There is not mispelling in the name on the barrel. They had 2 versions of the exact same barrel, fluted and non fluted. I got the fluted version but they have 4 of the non fluted left for $120...

I might just buy 2 more so I have them in the shop to build uppers or complete guns for friends.. Shooting 3/4moa with factory ammo without a proper cheek weld for $120 is a heck of a deal.

http://www.jsesurplus.com/18WILSONAR...-MAYHAVEE.aspx

 

[Sniperstud]

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't check the discontinued section.

 

[padom]

I picked another one up today.

 

[Bakwa]

I picked another one up today.

And the addiction continues.

 

[padom]

Lol, yep. I got out yesterday to do some load development with the fluted barrel. All testing was done at 100yds suppressed over the LabRadar. I tested the 175smk with Varget and H4895 and the 168 ELD-M with Varget. Found some pretty nice loads shooting sub .75moa... Will post up some groups later today when I get a chance.

 

[padom]

Had really good single digit SD's for charges in the node with very similar velocity.. The 168 ELD-M groups were all over 1" for initial load development but excellent SD's. In my experience the Amax/ELD-M's liked to be loaded longer than 175smk's for tiny groups. I am going to do a seating depth test with the 168 ELD-M's and the 175smk/Varget load. I forgot to turn my Labradar on for the H4895 test but did record a few groups which were similar to the Varget/175smk loads in the 2550 range.. H4895 was the most accurate out of the gate but we will see what a seating depth test turns up. The 168 ELD-M's looked extremely promising with a very wide node and my 5 shot fouler group printed a clover leaf with 4 of 5 shots. Stay tuned... I also received my second barrel (non fluted version) today. JSE ships fast!

A buddy of mine showed up to the range while I was testing these loads. He was impressed with the targets and was floored once I told him this barrel only cost $140 and the entire build was only $1200...I told him I never had a Wilson barrel that didnt shoot

 

[padom]

Had a really busy week, havent done any further testing. Im going to load up some Varget/175smk and 168 ELD-M to do seating depth testing. My non-fluted barrel showed up from JSE, looks great. Ordered another Aero M5 upper so I can test this second barrel then use if for the Rainier 6.5cm Gen2 barrel testing.

I heard back from my contacts at Rainier. He informed me that they are no longer using Shilen blanks for their latest Gen2 6.5cm barrels and arent willing to release who's blanks they are now using due to supply issues they had ran into before with their Gen1 barrels. Not sure if these means they will be using various blanks but he did tell me the new Gen2 barrel still comes with the same accuracy guarantee the older Shilen barrel had.

He also said they headspace the barrel to the bolt you purchase with the barrel. If you arent purchasing a bolt I was told you are more than welcome to send in your own bolt to have headspaced to your new barrel. He said to just put in the comment section during check out to hold the barrel till your bolt arrives for headspacing. He did say if you dont send in your bolt the default headspacing works great with JP HP bolts and states thats one of the best bolts out there for their barrel (we already knew this lol). Looking forward to testing this barrel.

 

[bigjake83]

Had a really busy week, havent done any further testing. Im going to load up some Varget/175smk and 168 ELD-M to do seating depth testing. My non-fluted barrel showed up from JSE, looks great. Ordered another Aero M5 upper so I can test this second barrel then use if for the Rainier 6.5cm Gen2 barrel testing.

I heard back from my contacts at Rainier. He informed me that they are no longer using Shilen blanks for their latest Gen2 6.5cm barrels and arent willing to release who's blanks they are now using due to supply issues they had ran into before with their Gen1 barrels. Not sure if these means they will be using various blanks but he did tell me the new Gen2 barrel still comes with the same accuracy guarantee the older Shilen barrel had.

He also said they headspace the barrel to the bolt you purchase with the barrel. If you arent purchasing a bolt I was told you are more than welcome to send in your own bolt to have headspaced to your new barrel. He said to just put in the comment section during check out to hold the barrel till your bolt arrives for headspacing. He did say if you dont send in your bolt the default headspacing works great with JP HP bolts and states thats one of the best bolts out there for their barrel (we already knew this lol). Looking forward to testing this barrel.

I did the same as you, but " My contacts"..lol gave a little clue though..they are now Broach Cut barrels.

 

[padom]

Was able to get out and do some seating depth tests with this barrel. I am very impressed with the results to say the least. The bullets I wanted to shoot the best were the 168 ELD-M's and they really tightened up as they got shorter. Very nice 0.5moa groups from 2.795 to 2.805. These things definitely didnt like to be loaded long. I will be loading up 25 of these to do a 5x5. The 175smk had a very narrow seating depth that they were accurate at but once you found that optimal seating depth they shot the smallest group to date of everything tested. I will be sticking with the higher BC 168 ELD-M's though.

The crazy part is we are talking about a $140 barrel here. I dont doubt the $120 non-fluted identical barrel I have sitting here shoots exactly the same. Wilson barrels straight shoot!

 

[propeine]

Nice shooting! Mine got shortened to 16 so hopefully it still shoots just as well. Was indicated in to thread and crown to .0005 so I'm not too concerned.

 

[kingzero]

Any updates on this? I was wanting to lighten up my 12+ lb 308 and picked up the same barrel. With the new barrel and stock I shaved 2.25 lbs. It will be a while before I can break it in and start load development but hope to get similar results.

Also, did you have any pierced primers on the Hornady match ammo? I tried some with my original 20" barrel and got a couple sub .75 moa groups but it was piercing primers big time.

 

[padom]

No pierced primers with any ammo for me. Factory or handloads. What updates are you looking for. I worked up the 168 ELD-M load with Varget and after doing a seating depth test it shoots better than I had thought. Right at 0.5moa. I ended up buying 2 of these barrels after seeing how well they shot for $120.00. I just put it in the safe for a future build at that cost.

 

[kingzero]

Just wondering if you had settled on a specific load and what the results were. Did you try anything lighter than 168's? My rifle is mainly used for calling coyotes and I like shooting 150 to 155's.

I didn't see this thread until after I bought the barrel. I paid 230 for it and was also going to buy another when I saw what you paid. Unfortunately all the discontinued barrels were already gone. I was really impressed with barrel and headspace checked out with a JP bolt. I picked up JP's VMOS, SCS and an SLR gas block and will run suppressed all the time. I couldn't get the accuracy I wanted with Varget on the last barrel and ended up using imr 4064. Hopefully this one is different.

 

[usda_beef]

Im going to copy this build! Who makes the 6.5 barrel?

 

[padom]

Get a JP or Rainier Ultramatch 6.5cm

 

[usda_beef]

Get a JP or Rainier Ultramatch 6.5cm

Would you recommend 18 or 22 inch?

 

[padom]

22" for sure

 

[propeine]

Just an update on the Wilson barrel/budget build. Sorry for piggybacking but this has gotten many more views.

16.5in Wilson barrel
168gr SMK
Varget powder
CCI 200 primer
1972 Lake City Match Brass
2.800 OAL

I called the one flyer on the 44.6 group. Target is NRA Smallbore at 100 yard. Below 43.2 was huge but the "middle" of my OCW is shown below. I don't think I as a shooter can shoot any better than this and even this is better than I normally shoot.

 

[Benito]

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
The only AR10s/AR-10s are those made by Armalite.
Everything else is either manufacturer-specific (e.g..SR-25, etc.) or generically termed a .308 AR.

I am on a mission to proselytize this point on every thread where I see the words AR10 or AR-10 referring to a non-Armalite pattern rifle.
Even within Armalite rifles, there is the original Armalite AR-10 pattern, then the AR-10B (during the ban years, under new ownership), and the newest AR-10A series.

I hate to get super autistic on this point, but since large frame ARs are not nearly as standardized as the AR-15, this confusion can lead to all sorts of incompatibility, headaches and wasted $$$.

 

[padom]

Take a breather bud. Go have a drink

 

[JeffLebowski]

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
The only AR10s/AR-10s are those made by Armalite.
Everything else is either manufacturer-specific (e.g..SR-25, etc.) or generically termed a .308 AR.

I am on a mission to proselytize this point on every thread where I see the words AR10 or AR-10 referring to a non-Armalite pattern rifle.
Even within Armalite rifles, there is the original Armalite AR-10 pattern, then the AR-10B (during the ban years, under new ownership), and the newest AR-10A series.

I hate to get super autistic on this point, but since large frame ARs are not nearly as standardized as the AR-15, this confusion can lead to all sorts of incompatibility, headaches and wasted $$$.

Kay, thanks.

Great thread, padom.

 

[HighLinerMI]

Can't find one of these barrels anywhere. Any info?

 

[padom]

They aren't the price I paid anymore but here's the exact barrel I tested in this thread.

fluted version


http://www.jsesurplus.com/18WilsonArms308Hbar1x10FlutedStainlessSteelStripped.aspx


non-fluted version


http://www.jsesurplus.com/18wilsonarms308hbar1x10ssnitridedstripped-1.aspx

 

[padom]

Can't find one of these barrels anywhere. Any info?

Here you go. See links in my above post

 

[djarecke]

Dumb question but is a Wilson Barrel the same one used by Wilson Combat on their 308 gas gun builds? I have heard that those rifles are extremely accurate.

 

[padom]

Wilson Arms is a barrel manufacturer. They make OEM barrels for a bunch of companies, I believe Rock River is one...WOA uses Wilson blanks for their barrels. All the ones I've tested have been very accurate.

Wilson Combat is a gun company and has nothing to do with Wilson Arms.

 

[Ericbc7]

I bought the last one (non fluted) J E had in the blemish/discount page back in August and aside from a bit of rust in the extension it appears perfect. Aa few drops of kroil and the rust wiped rite out. Looking forward to getting another Aero upper to start working up a load.

 

[HighLinerMI]

Here you go. See links in my above post

i thought your barrel was rifle length gas?