Budget AR builds and accuracy

[timelinex]

Lately I have been considering getting an ar15 and it just came to my attention that semi-auto AR's are much less accurate than bolt guns, in the same price ranges (not custom and high $$). I know that every sniper ninja online gets .25MOA out of their bushmasters, but it seems like any thread that has experiences members talking their numbers dont look as good.

There's obviously a million and one which AR should I buy threads, I haven't seen a thread where this is answered, so if it is just point me to it...

What is, in your opinion, the best AR15 rifle in the following price brackets AND what is the HONEST <span style="text-decoration: underline">average</span> MOA that can be expected out of it.
A) Under $600
B) Under $1000
C) Under $1200

This is for everything included for the rifle to function, but not including optic. It can also include put together rifle combinations but as before, it has to include everything needed. I fugre over $1200 isn't really needed to be discuessed, and thats discussed enough.. Many fine custom rifle makers out there that will make you a .5MOA AR for the right price I'm sure.

 

[Drifter™]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

Best bet is to build, and put a good chunk (~$350 to $550) towards a quality barrel. Remainder of parts can be budget items, or picked up used. Could probably put something like this together for ~$800 or less (for the upper).

A good free-floated barrel, along with a good optic and good trigger, will make for an accurate setup.

I'm not sure who, if anyone, offers a factory-built upper using a true match-grade barrel with everything else being low-end components. Which is why I suggest building...

Sometimes less expensive barrels will shoot very well, but a top-quality barrel will tip the odds in favor of achieving good accuracy.

 

[brickz_va]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter_1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Best bet is to build, and put a good chunk (~$350 to $550) towards a quality barrel. Remainder of parts can be budget items, or picked up used. Could probably put something like this together for ~$800 or less (for the upper).

A good free-floated barrel, along with a good optic and good trigger, will make for an accurate setup.

I'm not sure who, if anyone, offers a factory-built upper using a true match-grade barrel with everything else being low-end components. Which is why I suggest building...

Sometimes less expensive barrels will shoot very well, but a top-quality barrel will tip the odds in favor of achieving good accuracy.</div></div>

Good advice... can't go wrong with that advice. Plus, you'll save yourself the second guessing of "should I have got the other barrel?"

Good luck mister... I know I'm on my second AR build. I started out with Rock River parts and never stressed again.

 

[Beef82]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

I've got a Model 1 16" chrome lined 1-9 M4 clone upper on a RRA lower, origionally all low cost milpec internals, not floated, shot numerous factory loadings between .75 and 1.5 MOA, surplus ammo 2-2.5, not bad not great, proper handloads have done better than .5 MOA. Cost just shy of $600. I keep thinking about a better barrel since the accuracy has slipped some after 4000+ rounds, but I'm thinking what I really need is a precision upper, which will of course mean I'll eventually need another lower, love circular logic.

 

[normbal]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lately I have been considering getting an ar15 and it just came to my attention that semi-auto AR's are much less accurate than bolt guns, in the same price ranges (not custom and high $$). I know that every sniper ninja online gets .25MOA out of their bushmasters, but it seems like any thread that has experiences members talking their numbers dont look as good.

There's obviously a million and one which AR should I buy threads, I haven't seen a thread where this is answered, so if it is just point me to it...

What is, in your opinion, the best AR15 rifle in the following price brackets AND what is the HONEST <span style="text-decoration: underline">average</span> MOA that can be expected out of it.
A) Under $600
B) Under $1000
C) Under $1200

This is for everything included for the rifle to function, but not including optic. It can also include put together rifle combinations but as before, it has to include everything needed. I fugre over $1200 isn't really needed to be discuessed, and thats discussed enough.. Many fine custom rifle makers out there that will make you a .5MOA AR for the right price I'm sure.

</div></div>

I'm going to chime in here with an IMHO story.

Several years back I built a handful of AR carbines.

I went with DPMS parts from previous experience, cost, and recommendations from friends. They didn't steer me wrong.

I bought a couple of receivers, about $125 apiece, internals for about $45, A1 stocks, and decided to go with 16" flat top COMPLETED uppers. One advantage I had was having a C&R FFL and getting "dealer costs" through some suppliers like MidwayUSA. I seem to recall paying, total, around $550 all told. Proud of myself, I then added in the price of things like the gas block, the BUIS system (I went with magpul), and finally an EOTECH.

So I've actually got a little over a grand in each gun.

Took these to a local range the other day, starting at 200 yards, prone, sitting, standing, moving in 25 yards at a time, made head shots (actually 4" targets), torso shots, odd triangle shapes about 2 feet by ten inches, half torsos, two rounds at a time at each station, and I was getting about 60% hits, and some VERY close (1/2 inch misses - considering a 1/2 inch miss on a 4" "headshot" in reality would have been a hit). With a 16" carbine. With handmade mil-spec ammo with surplus powder and 55 grain bullets and scrounged range brass. Friend of mine (he's here on the 'hide, he runs practical carbine courses, he'll back me up) was making 80% hits with a 10 power scope. match ammo and 20" barrel (on a totally different gun).

We were both impressed. I have bolt guns, I have longer-barrel carbines and for what these guns are for (patrol, home defense), they're more than adequate for the purpose.

Yes, you CAN make a basic gun, if you wait for a deal here, a deal there, used parts, cheap receivers (I've seen DPMS go for as little as $95 dealer cost), do the gunsmithing/assembly/troubleshooting yourself. I'd say could do it at around $1000, easy, but you'll need optics of some kind.

It's fun.

 

[rrflyer]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

Rock River rifles come with an accuracy guarantee and are usually priced under 1,000.

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

Build an AR parts is a lot of fun. Today just about everyone is building parts for the black rifles. I myself have built a few AR's.

As far as barrels, there are quite a few custom barrels you can buy, but what I have found for the money that shoots at least 1/2 moa with good ammo is the rock river stainless barrels that are 1 x 8 twist with wylde chambers. I have at least three of these barrels on my AR's.

 

[BCP]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

If group size for not a lot of money is your bag there are accurate barrels that are heavy contour and not too expensive. DPMS RRA for instance. Realistically I think you are talking 800 for a complete build (a2 stock, no-frills handguard, service rifle trigger).

For a lightweight carbine Palmetto State Armory had some upper+stock+LPK deals that were really good for around 500.

 

[rdmega]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

I would also add that is depends what style (look) and what optics you are after on it. Example, I built a rifle using a Rock River lower and custom parts upper. It did shoot .75 moa with just about any ammo. However, I found I didnt shoot it over 200 yards. For my last rifle, I just wanted a "mil-spec" looking rifle with the exception of the free float quad rail. Since I consider it a plinker I only put a red dot on it. I didnt expect much from it but I found it will keep around 1" with most loads at 100 yards with just my 2x magnifier on it. If you want a varmint looking rig, you can get a heavy stainless barrel that will shoot clovers with a 4x on up scope. If you want a tactical looking carbine that is reasonable accurate then most will do. My current build is a cheap ATI lower and I used a Del-Ton rifle kit because you can customize them pre-order.

Edit: Forgot to mention, the RR Arms I spoke of was $886 pre optics, the current Del-Ton/ATI was $765 including the quad rail and low profile gas block.

 

[jakerz3]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

Building is definitely the way to go. I wanted a precision AR and built one for a lot less than what was being offered by manufactures, and built it with higher quality parts.

The biggest or most important things to consider when building a precision AR, is the barrel and the trigger IMO. All other parts are personal preference and do not really have an effect on overall accuracy. Again, this is my opinion.

I bought a 18" White Oaks Armament Barrel and a Geissele SSA-E trigger. The rest of the parts (lower, upper receiver, handguards, etc) could be any combination, IMHO. The barrel and the trigger make the accuracy. With the above, I know I can shoot .25 MOA groups.

I built my rifle for $1435 with the parts below. But you could skimp out on some of the parts I bought and buy something cheaper (muzzle brake, gas block, rails, charging handle, etc)


*Spikes upper: 106

*WOA Barrel & Bolt: 350

*Spikes Bolt & Carrier: 115

*Samson Rails: 193

*Gun Fighter CH: 40

*AAC Blackout FS 81

*Vltor gas block 58

*DPMS barrel nut 7

*Spike's Lower 300

*Geissele Trigger SSA-E 185

Total 1435

 

[timelinex]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

Ok, I guess Im torn on what I want to do... So I have to really decide what the point of this build will be, as some of you mentioned. I have a bolt gun, which is plenty enough for long range precision work, especially that the 556 isn't really meant for 600+(not to say that it wont make it to 1000+).

The plan was to put a red dot on it, so I guess that answer's the question of its purpose.

If I buy something like the PSA Upper and Lower and then I decide its accuracy isn't up to what I want, can I change out just the barrel(and trigger if need be) to a match barrel or do various parts need to be changed to change out a barrel(same caliber) .

I guess the perfect begining setup for me looks like right HERE . The only problem with this setup that I see is its carbine length and not mid-legnth, which seems to be looked down on for part reliability and larger recoil.

 

[jakerz3]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, I guess Im torn on what I want to do... So I have to really decide what the point of this build will be, as some of you mentioned. I have a bolt gun, which is plenty enough for long range precision work, especially that the 556 isn't really meant for 600+(not to say that it wont make it to 1000+).

The plan was to put a red dot on it, so I guess that answer's the question of its purpose.

If I buy something like the PSA Upper and Lower and then I decide its accuracy isn't up to what I want, can I change out just the barrel(and trigger if need be) to a match barrel or do various parts need to be changed to change out a barrel(same caliber) .</div></div>

Barrel and trigger are drop in parts. they can be changed at any time with ease.

 

[Inogame]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

Carbine recoil isn't really a big deal IMHO, I could shoot my bushy carbine off my chin (not that you'd really want too)

If you end up re-barreling, switching to mid length can be done for negligible cost. Just need a longer gas tube. The spring and buffer stay the same.

 

[timelinex]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

Insane how interchangable parts are on the ar15. Its like a lego toy, more so than bolt rifles. No wonder all you guys got the part addictions

 

[jakerz3]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Insane how interchangable parts are on the ar15. Its like a lego toy, more so than bolt rifles. No wonder all you guys got the part addictions

</div></div>

Yeah, I was a little scared the first time I built one. After I was done I was like, "that's it?". very simple.

 

[Beef82]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

From what I've read midlength on a 16" tube is better, mine is not, it did break the bolt right around the 4,000 round count. Fortunately its a cheap and easy part to change, and I wasn't on a two way range. Changing buffers can have a dramatic effect on recoil and action timing, which should prevent this. I went to a spikes tactical buffer which uses tungsten powder instead of solid weights, recoil and muzzle rise are no worse than a 22LR now, awesome for follow-up shots, as .223 recoil is not bad to begin with. Can't speak to reliability, got about 3,000 rnds to go before I know if its better.

 

[rdmega]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

Also, as with any other rifle a change in muzzle devices over the standard flash hider can help in recoil. But, I dont find the recoil bad at all. Slightly more than a .22lr with more muzzle rise.

 

[AnschutzNerd]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

I spent thousands on a long range AR-15. It shoots!

If I were to do it over... and on a budget:

RRA Predator Pursuit: 20-in - $1150
Geissele SSA-E - $200
Nikon Monarch or Bushnell Elite - $500 w/rings

Will hit a Nickel with every shot at 100-yards using the right ammo. Maybe better!

Good Luck,

AnschutzNerd

 

[GlockandRoll]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

I'm hearing good things about the Ruger e-mod SR 556.
http://www.ruger.com/products/sr556E/models.html

I'm going gas piston becuase I shoot suppressed so often. Just done with gas completely except for my competition rig(s).

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lately I have been considering getting an ar15 and it just came to my attention that semi-auto AR's are much less accurate than bolt guns, in the same price ranges (not custom and high $$). I know that every sniper ninja online gets .25MOA out of their bushmasters, but it seems like any thread that has experiences members talking their numbers dont look as good.

There's obviously a million and one which AR should I buy threads, I haven't seen a thread where this is answered, so if it is just point me to it...

What is, in your opinion, the best AR15 rifle in the following price brackets AND what is the HONEST <span style="text-decoration: underline">average</span> MOA that can be expected out of it.
A) Under $600
B) Under $1000
C) Under $1200

This is for everything included for the rifle to function, but not including optic. It can also include put together rifle combinations but as before, it has to include everything needed. I fugre over $1200 isn't really needed to be discuessed, and thats discussed enough.. Many fine custom rifle makers out there that will make you a .5MOA AR for the right price I'm sure.

</div></div>

My perception is my current AR based Service Rifle gives up nothing to anything else out there. I've shot to zero dispersion using its irons from time to time for the first five or six rounds; and, for the most part, until fatigued, I can muster about 1/2 MOA with it for most rounds in a 20 round for record string of fire on the MR-31 target in ideal conditions. Again this is with the rifle's irons shooting from a prone sling supported position. My current barrel is a S.S. Douglas smithed by CLE, CLE chamber, 1 in 7 twist. My point is, today, good shooting is more about the shooter than about the type of rifle you shoot. Making the position, alignment, and hold consistent is what it's really all about.

 

[adamsmith007]

Re: Budget AR builds and accuracy

I have a Rock River Arms 20" Predator Pursuit and although i have not taken the time yet to load a round for best possible accuracy (just started reloading), i have read many threads where guys get sub .5 MOA with hand loads. The reason i went with RRA was because of all the great reviews on accuracy. I got mine for $929 for Pete at AR15sales.