Well, I've decided to start on an LR308 for my next target rifle. I like the challenge of a semi auto, and I have some experience shooting F-T/R with my previous rifle. I want some more grunt and a little less wind involvement so I'm going to move up a click. What I'd like to know from some experienced shooters is where should I be looking for my next barrel? It appears Krieger only makes 20" barrels, which isn't going to get me enough velocity for what I want to do. I was looking for some ballistic tables and it seems I'm going to need at least a 24" barrel. My experience with 168gr SMK's is they run out of gas at ~850-890 yards and take the nearest exit. I believe I can get a 175gr SMK to stay supersonic out to 1000 yards, so that is likely going to be my target projectile. Given that, I need to settle on a twist. 1:10 is probably going to get the job done, but I've run across a few manufacturers (such as black hole weaponry) that run non standard twists (I presume this is because they are polygonal rifled). 1:11.25, and 1:8.5 twist rates. 1:11.25 seems a little slow, I'm scared I might run into stability problems reaching out, and 1:8.5 seems like way too much twist. Lothar Walther has some great options, but they cost a bit more - I was looking at a custom 26" 1:10 from them. What is everyones thoughts on these different barrels? Any suggestions?
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Building a new long range LR-308 - 1000 yard gun
- Thread starter Pyrex
- Start date
Dont think your gonna go wrong with either twist. I believe the 1:11.25 was found to be the perfect twist by the USMC for the 175smk. Seems to work fine for me with 175 & 178a maxs. The stock 1:10 that came with the LR works well to.
Originally I was looking at a longer barrel length, but lately I've been doing some research in regards to shorter barrels achieve much more predictable groups due to barrel harmonics. Has anyone here been able to achieve reasonable accuracy out to 1000 yards with a shorter barrel?
With the slightest bit of Google you will find 100+ snipers hide threads on short barrel 308s. It's a beaten to death subject.
I looked at this thread because I too want to build or buy cheap and work up to a 1000 yard rifle in either .308 or maybe a .300 WM.
But now... I'm getting some popcorn.
This aught to be interesting.
But now... I'm getting some popcorn.
This aught to be interesting.
Are you dead set on 175s? 155scenars get the job done as well. The 308 not a long range round? I'm lost on that one. Sure their are newer rounds that do it with less drift and drop but it still does it just fine.just because other rounds are out now doesn't mean it suddenly quit being able to do the task. A 20"barrel for heavier pills is gtg.
This will do you well. Lilja's 1024 24" 1:10 SS Match. I have one of his 10740 20" and it's wicked accurate. The 24" will get you the velocity you need with the 175's and even the real heavies. I imagine the 208 Amax moving at 2700+ would be killer. In stock and available too. They are damn good tubes for the money. Less than a custom Krieger or other but still a fine custom.
Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels
Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels
I have a DPMS LR-308. It shoots 1/2 MOA with 168 SMKs, 175 SMKs, 178 A max. It's a stock barrel which is a heavy 24", 1:10 twist. My 175 SMK load is basically a M-118LR dup, but with Lapua brass and WLR primer. It chronys at 2584 and stays supersonic to about 1100 yds (depending on conditions). The only mods I have made are magpul PRS stock, Accushot, Accuwedge, EBR2V, JP trigger, and thunderbeast amrs 30P1 can. Not sure if all DPMS are this accurate, or I just got lucky, but I would highly recommend it. The only downside it it's a little heavy and with the can is extremely long. You'll gain about 25fps/inch between 20 and 26" barrel length and diminishing returns by going any longer. Hope that helps.
In calm winds I'm getting consistent and repeatable hits on steel at 1200 yards with an 18" GAP-10 shooting Copper Creek 175 smk Gas Gun Loads chrono'd at 2555 fps. 1000 is a chip shot with that rifle once you have truly dialed in and confirmed dope. Wind is your enemy with the .308, not the distance to 1000.
That is pretty impressive, I must say. I appreciate everyone's input as it's all helpful to me. Originally I was going to go with a 26" barrel, but I run suppressed like docjjr above, and adding 9" to a 26" is 35 inches of length, That is ridiculous. My last F-T/R gun was a 24" barrel, and I hated lugging it around. Posts like truth's makes me feel like I should try something different this time and select a 20" barrel.
I've been considering Black Hole Weaponry a bit more, they are running a sale and are pretty cheap right now. Does anyone in here run one of their barrels or have anything to say about them?
Here is the rifle with the old 16" Recon DPMS barrel. The best group I was able to get was a 1.16" group with 168gr hornady match. I wasn't too pleased with the gun and the velocity was pretty poor. The idea was to have a reasonable length rifle for hunting and target shooting. So far I haven't spent much money at all on it, I did the trigger on the gun, lapped/fit the barrel and bolt, etc. I didn't want to get too invested as it was simply a test to see what I could do with handloads and a factory 16" barrel.
Thank you for that nugget of wisdom.
The 308 can be a very accurate long range round depending on your definition of accuracy and long range. The OP says he likes the challenge of producing long range accuracy with a gas rifle. He wants to build it in 308 so let's help him.
The 1000yd match at Hardrock here in Alabama has a 308 class. 175gr SMK's, 155gr Scenars and 180gr Bergers seem to usually carry the day. I'd start there and see what works best for you.
My 2¢ would be geared toward the optic rather than barrel length. I can run the 155 gr Scenar out my 12.5" at 2485 and account for 43MOA of drop at 1000 yards and end up with hand-size groups in normal wind conditions. The ME difference is sub 150 fpe. If the 16 ain't doing it, then check into optic, ammo, barrel, trigger, etc. That should be a relatively easy hit (again, outside of heavy full value winds) at 1000 yds.
I run a 20moa base and have 60moa of internal adjustment or 80moa or so of drop compensation, so I have a ton of adjustment in there optically. I've shot fairly competitively with the PST 6-24x50 so I'm happy with the optics. It has a little bit of CA but really it isn't too big of an issue. I believe I will go with the shorter barrel. It seems the 155 scenars are popular, I might give them a shot if I can stomach the wallet rape. I like a challenge! I wish I could find some more info on BHW barrels, but if not I might as well give it a shot.
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Ah yes the wallet rape issue. Performance costs man. Given what those long, light bullets allow in a shorter tube, it's worth the price of admission to many people, myself included.
Certainly a 6.5 Creed will be able to achieve long range performance a bit easier than the .308. Having said that, my OBR with 18" barrel shot just fine to 1140 for me with 175SMK handloads. Can't afford to be lazy on the AR, but I like 'em. My PredatOBR is a 16" .308. Haven't been to the range with her yet...
USMC is using MK11's and M110's with 1:11.25 twist. They are upgrading all of these to M110K1 configuration with 1:11.25 16" barrels which tested better with 175 SMK's out to 1200 meters than the M110's with their 20" barrels.
Like kilos said up above. I have a DPMS LR-260. Love it. Just bought a Stiener 4x16 for it. See how it preforms.
Just this past weekend we got to stretch the legs on my son's LR-308, it has the 26" bull barrel w/ 10 twist.
With the 175 SMK's over 43.5 of Varget it was (according to the chart) barely supersonic at 1000 yards. Had hits within inches of the 1 moa gong (10"), but the hit remained elusive- still very impressive for a .308 from a "low end" semi. That load will shoot cloverleafs at 100 yards.
Unbelievably enough, when doing OCW we tried a load of 46.1 grains- worked up to carefully- and there were still no pressure signs; unfortunately the chrono was having issues at the end of the day when shooting that round and we were unable to confirm velocity. But, it was VERY accurate....further testing to confirm safety and velocity to follow, if it holds up it could be the extra nudge he needs.
Is it an optimal 1000 yard setup, nope...but, I have no doubt it can get the job done.
With the 175 SMK's over 43.5 of Varget it was (according to the chart) barely supersonic at 1000 yards. Had hits within inches of the 1 moa gong (10"), but the hit remained elusive- still very impressive for a .308 from a "low end" semi. That load will shoot cloverleafs at 100 yards.
Unbelievably enough, when doing OCW we tried a load of 46.1 grains- worked up to carefully- and there were still no pressure signs; unfortunately the chrono was having issues at the end of the day when shooting that round and we were unable to confirm velocity. But, it was VERY accurate....further testing to confirm safety and velocity to follow, if it holds up it could be the extra nudge he needs.
Is it an optimal 1000 yard setup, nope...but, I have no doubt it can get the job done.
We used M24's with the 173gr M118 Special Ball, and it wasn't a 1000yd cartridge either. On the transition ranges, we were lucky to get 2nd round corrections on double E-types at 900m (2 sils side by side). 600m was more realistic ballpark for high hit probability, but we didn't have ballistics programs either. 175gr SMK is a better bullet than the 173gr and especially the 168gr SMK, but in my personal quest to find a 1000yd .308 AR10, I gave up years ago and went .260 Remington.
I sold all my .308 reloading supplies, and haven't looked back. I don't miss .308 at all, especially with a bunch of 6.5 Grendel's and the .260 Remington. The .260 Remington with a 130gr VLD is a very solid 1000yd shooter for me, extremely forgiving of wind changes, extremely flat, and a real hammer.
When partnered up with my team mate for sniper competitions, I know I'm a liability if I bring a .308 Winchester, since every other seasoned team will be shooting 6.5's, 7mm's, or .338 LM, maybe a few .300 WM's. When I was shooting .308 Winchester, I used the 155gr Scenar at 2820fps.
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