Building a not clone 1903A4

[Bakwa]

Let me start by saying that I love historically correct guns, I love military history, and I respect guys that clone rifles.
That said, I'm more into general aesthetics rather than perfect clones, and I'm more of a shooter than a collector.

I've had an itch for a number of years now for a 1903A4. Prices are stupid on them and only getting worse. Even forced A4's are $2000+.
I've been considering buying the next decent looking ~$800 1903A3 I find, and just having it drilled and tapped for a scope base. If I do, and I know it's not going to be a real A4 anyway, I'd like to find a base and scope that's more modern [read modular/useable], but I want it to look 03A4 enough. Think clone at five yards.

Do you guys have a recommendation for a clean useable based and/or scope combo that wouldn't look too distasteful, but that's modern enough so that I could easily hunt and target shoot with it next to my other user rifles?

Thanks for the advice in advance.

 

[camocorvette]

No advise on scopes.

But I say go for it. I've recently got a mk4 enfield and was just gonna clean it up. It does not shoot well at all with the 2 groove barrel. So I'll get a new barrel. It won't be original. But hopefully it will shoot well.

 

[ODCMP]

My suggestion is to look for an 03-A3 receiver that is already drilled and tapped. I built a clone that way years ago. I made the bolt cut on a stock that was already cut down as a sporter. Then I grafted a forearm onto the stock using the forearm from a cracked stock, with a splice under the front band. Doing that it was cheap and no collectible original parts were destroyed.

I used a commercial Redfield base and rings and a commercial S-type Weaver scope. I also set it up with a Lyman Alaskan to take advantage of the better scope. Both are commercial versions of scopes used on the 03-A4.

 

[fpgt72]

Being the collector here, I got a couple things.

First off good luck finding anything close to decent for $800.
Second if you drill and tape a "decent" rec you will rot in hell forever. Don't modify anything at this late stage. There are tons of "sporters" out there for you to go after.

My last searches had any 03 that would be in the "good" group to be well over a grand now. If you get lucky you might find someone with a "low number" that thinks it will blow up on him and you might get it under a grand.....might. But I think that is the only thing you are going to find in that price range.

But please don't modify a clean example, plenty running around that are already "messed up".

 

[Mister Ridge]

What don't you like about the original base and what do you want out of the optic?

 

[Mister Ridge]

My suggestion is to look for an 03-A3 receiver that is already drilled and tapped. I built a clone that way years ago. I made the bolt cut on a stock that was already cut down as a sporter. Then I grafted a forearm onto the stock using the forearm from a cracked stock, with a splice under the front band. Doing that it was cheap and no collectible original parts were destroyed.

I used a commercial Redfield base and rings and a commercial S-type Weaver scope. I also set it up with a Lyman Alaskan to take advantage of the better scope. Both are commercial versions of scopes used on the 03-A4.

That is largely what I did but what I found was a rifle that someone had done what the OP is considering. It was seemingly nicely restored to military trim with a bent bolt and the reciever D&T for a Redfield pattern scope base, but it turned out to be drilled wrong. I have an EGW base on it right now, which I think is what they tried to install originally, but the holes aren't straight and it takes most of the scopes windage to get boresighted close to center. It'll get put back into a iron sight trim whenever I get around to sending my stuff to auction. I think I want an Enfield instead.

 

[Charger442]

I think I have a Weaver 2.5 if you're interested in that optic
It was on a clone years ago.

 

[Bakwa]

Being the collector here, I got a couple things.

First off good luck finding anything close to decent for $800.
Second if you drill and tape a "decent" rec you will rot in hell forever. Don't modify anything at this late stage. There are tons of "sporters" out there for you to go after.

My last searches had any 03 that would be in the "good" group to be well over a grand now. If you get lucky you might find someone with a "low number" that thinks it will blow up on him and you might get it under a grand.....might. But I think that is the only thing you are going to find in that price range.

But please don't modify a clean example, plenty running around that are already "messed up".

Thank you for the ardent words.
I'm in the industry myself, so I have an idea of what they pass around for. I walked on a decent A3 last month for $900. Probably should have picked it up... they come and they go. I think it's only a matter of time before I find what I'm looking for.

Also, to put the uneasy minds at rest, I do not plan to hack up a fine specimen. It will likely be a sporter or a mix matched/rebarreled example, so no reason to fret.

Cheers friend

 

[Bakwa]

What don't you like about the original base and what do you want out of the optic?

For guns that I actually use, I'm fairly prudent when it comes to the durability of their optics. I've always thought of vintage optics [and their clones] as more fragile. So my thought was, if I use a modern mount then I'll have more durable options and nicer glass to boot.
So far as what I'm looking for? I want the classic/period correct look, with modern ruggedness and decent glass.

 

[Bakwa]

I'm looking at this one right now.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1027989748

Anyone have any thoughts or concerns? It's been rebarreled with an unknown barrel. Already has the A4 aesthetic.

 

[fpgt72]

Thank you for the ardent words.
I'm in the industry myself, so I have an idea of what they pass around for. I walked on a decent A3 last month for $900. Probably should have picked it up... they come and they go. I think it's only a matter of time before I find what I'm looking for.

Also, to put the uneasy minds at rest, I do not plan to hack up a fine specimen. It will likely be a sporter or a mix matched/rebarreled example, so no reason to fret.

Cheers friend

Anything under a grand is a deal around here. Not sure where you are, and I have found in my travels that somethings vary around the country. MANY years ago I was in shock to find Carcano going for sub $120 back in the DSW, but here in the mid west, prices already north of $200 for really crappy examples. I could have flipped them for easy $200 per rifle.

I have not seen that apply to "popular" arms, read popular as American German, and British. Those values seem pretty set. I have been looking for a Remington and not come across ANY for sub $1200 around here. I have all but given up, same with the International Garand. I think those are going to go the same way as the Johnson I lusted after but just did not want to spend the money on. Who knew they would (in the case of the Johnson) go for over $4k now. Just flat stupid.

 

[boardwalk72]

One thing with 03a4 base is there is a slight cant to it. As others have said the redfield s base is your best modern reproduction.

I did a full restoration on a legit 03a4 a few years ago and it took 2 years of searching to find a legit unmarked arsenal replacement Lyman mount since the original redfield wasn't present and I didn't want the modern redfield.

Prices have only gone up and are probably going to continue to do so. Occasionally you can find a Gibbs for 1500 bucks. HiLux used to make a clone scope. A legit M73B1 will probably run you a grand in good condition.

 

[Bakwa]

Thanks for all the help!
Following this thread, no fewer than five guys messaged me and directed me to a marketplace post on the Accurate Shooters Forum regarding a beautiful 1903A4 shooter grade clone. Some guys even reached out to him for me.
I really wasn't prepared to drop dough, but I rubbed a few pennies together and should be getting it in next week.
I'll post pics and hopefully a decent accuracy report after it arrives.

 

[Defender32]

Just picked up an 03a3 Smith-Corona this past weekend I was wanting to do the same a4 clone conversion on. I will probably just keep it with the Irons. Barrel is bright and groves look good with bore scope. I need to load a few rounds and see how she shoots. I have 200 pieces of new brass and a load from a Vintage Sniper shooter at the Gun Club.

She needs a little cleaning up on the outside and I believe she will look great.

 

[camocorvette]

That looks like it should clean up nice. Hopefully she's a shooter.

 

[68hoyt]

Bakwa
Update !!!!!!!

 

[Bakwa]

Bakwa
Update !!!!!!!

Sorry.
I brought the crud back from Shot Show and only just now feel better.
It might be next week for getting the A4 out to the range.

 

[68hoyt]

Get to feeling better ,

 

[Bakwa]

Better later than never!
I final got a chance to get out there and shoot it for groups, and take some good photos.
All of the groups were shot with FGMM ammo.
My greatest limitation in shooting the groups was the scope. The post-style reticle is an awesome intuitive reticle for fast shots, but not great for our modern standards of precision shooting. My best group was just over 1.5" and my other groups were hovering around 2".
With a modern precision optic, it wouldn't surprise me if this thing was a consistent sub minute shooter.
Enjoy the pics.