Building an AR, could use some input

[DieTrying310]

I'm looking to build an SPR-esque setup from the ground up. It'll be my first complete build, and I'm doing it because I just really want to make something from scratch (or assemble in this case).

This will be a medium range gun for me, about 500 yards max. Any farther and I'll bust out my bolt action. It will be primarily used at the range smacking steel. I know I'm going to go with a Mega billet upper/lower set, and a few other pieces are up in the air. I know a .223 is standard for SPRs, but I'm having a hard time deciding on .223 or .308. I want something common as I don't reload yet and it would be difficult for me to anytime soon.

I know the .223 will be light with low recoil, and cheap to shoot. I also know the .308 will be solid and heavy which I like, and I love the look of the beefier .308 in an AR setup. So for this I throw myself on the mercy of the hide, .223 or .308?

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

Mercy of the hide with this question? More like throwing sheep at wolves, lol. I have both and shoot the AR-15 more than the LR-308. I like both rifles and shoot both. The .308 is great for shooting steel out to 800 yards. The AR-15 is great for shooting steel out to 700 yards. With what you said you need 500 yards and under I would get the AR-15 just for the reason you would shoot it more due to price of bullets and with the amount you save you can get some good glass. JMHO

 

[acidone]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

.223 is great out to 500 yards and .308 is better. If you ever plan on taking a light semi auto out hunting maybe .308 is the better choice!

 

[lwrkeysfisher]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

I would go .223 since it's cheaper to feed, build, and fairly easy to shoot at 500; though, if you're like me you'll end up with both eventually.

 

[5RWill]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go .223 since it's cheaper to feed, build, and fairly easy to shoot at 500; though, if you're like me you'll end up with both eventually. </div></div>

+1 on this completely. I plan on doing the same building my next AR from scratch and all and it will also be a SPR. I vote for .223 for the same reasons fisher has stated.

 

[DieTrying310]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

Thanks guys. I decided to follow your advice and my own common sense and go with .223. I'm like fisher though, and I'm sure I'll end up with both eventually. For the time being this will be my last firearm for a while, I've bought 7 in the last 4 months.

 

[Downrange1x]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

Why just limit yourself to 5.56 or 308? Take a serious look at a 6.8spc chambering in an Ar platform. I currently run 2 6.8 platforms one in a 10.5" sbr and 1 in a 18" spr system. The 18" is more than sufficient for medium game hunting plus it is a hard hitting round out to 4-500yd. range without the extra weight of the 308 system. Take a look at Noveske's web site for more info.

 

[Swift]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

There is a significant price difference between building an AR15 and an AR10/308. You'll get much more for your money with the 223. Also, if you decide to go with a 223, make sure you buy a 5.56 mil spec upper. That way you can shoot hotter loads and most mil spec uppers use a faster twist barrel so you can shoot the 69+gr bullets no problem.

 

[exhogflyer]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

I would second the 6.8 build idea except for ammo costs, unless of course if you reload.It seems to bridge the gap between 5.56 and 308 yet still in a '15 size rifle.

 

[FltMed13]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go .223 since it's cheaper to feed, build, and fairly easy to shoot at 500; though, if you're like me you'll end up with both eventually. </div></div>

I would go with this as the .223 is also much more readily available at your local stores. 6.8SPC not so much.
Although I am interested at building one of those in the future...

 

[Buckeye Scott]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

go 223 for all the reasons mentioned above. If you have bought 7 guns recently use the money you saved by going with the smaller round and invest in reloading equipment when you are able.

 

[DieTrying310]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

I have been looking at 6.8 parts, which is another reason I'm going to do the .223 now. If in the future ammo is a bit more plentiful it's a pretty easy barrel/bolt/magazine swap and I'm ready to rock.

 

[salmonaxe]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

I don't know what barrel you're getting, but I've so far been very pleased with the one I got from High Caliber Sales.

Used to build this which made many repeat hits recently at 750yds with XM193 on a 13"X27"(rough estimate) steel plate. DA=0-500ft Temp=32-40F. Max wind was only 3mph. Once dialed in it was almost boring.

 

[DieTrying310]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

Right now I'm looking at a WOA 18" SPR match barrel with a .223 Wylde chamber. I've been hearing good things, so I think I'll give it a shot. How much did your High Caliber barrel set you back?

 

[marduk185]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

there is really imho no wrong answer here, only logical rationalizations we all go thru in order to come to a decision from the myriad options available. id say most of us here have toyed with this dilemma a bit.
that said, my personal conclusion has been thus. 5.56 is reserved for short range engagement of targets 800 yards or under from very lightweight inexpensively built ar-15's with the focus on high speed low drag. most people will quickly weigh their rig down with tacticool crap and miles of heavy ass rail cancer defeating this premise. again just my opinion. dot sight or low power optic preferably with some hold points in the reticle is awesome here but very little else needed.
if yer really feeln the need to stretch the range and pinpoint targets as well as hit heavier game go 7.62 and put as many doodads as ya wanna but keep in mind yer still gonna wanna be able to hump this thing a few miles. acog on a m1a comes to my mind here but many recommend ar-10 all the time so they must be cool.
my experience was i built a 5.56 varminter decided it was heavier and not much more accurate than the 16" carbine so traded it for a fal cuz i like em better. figger the logic there?

 

[salmonaxe]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

$425.00

http://www.highcalibersales.com/Site/Available_Items.html

They're supposed to be from the same machines and people that make the real SPR bbl.

More expensive than the WOA from Adco, but I think it's worth it.

Marduk, have you really engaged targets at 800yds successfully with an AR-15 only using a reddot? If so you're a badass.

Do you understand the SPR concept? Even if not for military application? I think for the sport shooter, we are trying to stretch the capabilities of the 5.56 cartridge to get good results at distance with inexpensive ammo. A nice variable power scope really helps. More mag is always a plus when spotting hits. Real SPR has a 2.5-10x, 3.5-15 with a bigger objective isn't far off.

That Daniel Defense rail weighs just about the same as a free float aluminum tube and I can mount my sling swivel socket anywhere on it. Also, I pop that bipod off all the time with it's quick release lever. On top of that I have a 600 lumen flashlight that I can pop onto a rail and still shoot to at least 200yds at night.

I'm not sure how much that SPR I pictured weighs, but it's not a lot. Definitely way less than my Remington 700 in McMillan with an ST-10. I think it's right around the same weight as my M1 Garand.

I do have a high speed sub 7lb AR-15 carbine which I have shot effectively up to 350yds. (Barely) Maybe it's my eyesight, but even IPSC sized targets seem pretty darn tiny at 350yds with the mark 1 eyeball.

Yep, that's less than 7lbs. Look at all that rail! Enough to give you a heart attack!

 

[marduk185]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

salmon,
that a cool lookin rig. more rail than i run but if yer under 7 lbs including that light thats pretty good. hard to tell from the pic but what contour barrel is that? i typically use heavy contour barrels but keep it under 7.5 lbs loaded so not much room for gadgetry. i never meant i was precision shooting with aimpoint to 800. i have shot to 500 with irons before and cant see why a low power optic couldnt get you to decent hits out to 800ish with good wind doping and using the right load and twist rate. im currently working up 69smk loads for just this purpose.
all that said i prefer .308 for instances where i know im going to be shooting 400yds +. im less likely to miss the wind call and feel better about the terminal result. i dont mind as much carrying a heavier weapon around if it giving me 7.62 power.

 

[Ed-G]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

I did one with an 18" Noveske barrel and a DD Lite rail covering the gas block. Balances nice and shoots good.

Working on another one, Adams Arms Piston with a 16" Denny's mid length operator barrel and I'm going to give the Samson Evolution rail a try.

Get a good trigger.

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Salmonaxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">$425.00

http://www.highcalibersales.com/Site/Available_Items.html

They're supposed to be from the same machines and people that make the real SPR bbl.

More expensive than the WOA from Adco, but I think it's worth it.

Marduk, have you really engaged targets at 800yds successfully with an AR-15 only using a reddot? If so you're a badass.

Do you understand the SPR concept? Even if not for military application? I think for the sport shooter, we are trying to stretch the capabilities of the 5.56 cartridge to get good results at distance with inexpensive ammo. A nice variable power scope really helps. More mag is always a plus when spotting hits. Real SPR has a 2.5-10x, 3.5-15 with a bigger objective isn't far off.

That Daniel Defense rail weighs just about the same as a free float aluminum tube and I can mount my sling swivel socket anywhere on it. Also, I pop that bipod off all the time with it's quick release lever. On top of that I have a 600 lumen flashlight that I can pop onto a rail and still shoot to at least 200yds at night.

I'm not sure how much that SPR I pictured weighs, but it's not a lot. Definitely way less than my Remington 700 in McMillan with an ST-10. I think it's right around the same weight as my M1 Garand.

I do have a high speed sub 7lb AR-15 carbine which I have shot effectively up to 350yds. (Barely) Maybe it's my eyesight, but even IPSC sized targets seem pretty darn tiny at 350yds with the mark 1 eyeball.

Yep, that's less than 7lbs. Look at all that rail! Enough to give you a heart attack! </div></div>
Nice setup. How long is the rail? Less than 7 lbs even with everything pictured? Nice race gun at that weight!

 

[sgtbutt]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

Just my .02 but if you decide on Mega and go the 5.56 route I would highly suggest looking into their monolithic upper. I've been eye balling them for some time now. And since this is going to be an SPRish rifle weight may or may not be your #1 concern. I find their mono upper to be quite intriguing to me. Of course there is a pluthera of options out there, way too many. Good luck on the build.

 

[5RWill]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

I just got done with a BCM 14.5 mid for carbine class and HD. I have DD omega rails on it and even as light as it is coupled with the PWS SM 556 comp it shoots like a .22lr. If you want to save a little on the SPR barrel BCM makes a good one from what i read. SS is 299$, Ionbond finish will cost an additional 60$. But thats how i've planned my MK12 Mod 1 clone. Also BCM makes the mk12 comp and collar which is due out this year and should/will be to the same standard as Ops inc.
Build log for my upper so far:
BCM Ionbond 410 18" SPR barrel
BCM BCG & charging handle
BCM rifle length gas tube
Vltor upper receiver
Vltor Gas block
KAC RAS rails

Optics:
vortex PST 6.5-24X50mm

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Optics:
vortex PST 6.5-24X50mm </div></div>
Are you trying to shoot a mile, lol
I have a 6X-24x on my LR-308, its nice to see the paper so close. Or confirm steel hits out past 800 yards.

 

[salmonaxe]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

Rail is 13" Troy TRX. With it's barrel nut, it weighs less than colt M4 handguards with the required Delta ring assembly and endcap.

Barrel is a Bravo Company 14.5" Lightweight contour carbine gas .625" gasblock diameter. Pinned Vltor VC-1 compensator. (For legal 16" length). I tried to slim as much down as possible. Polymer BUIS. X300 is the lightest 2cell 6volt flashlight in it's class. I made an integrated front sight that clamps to the x300 to clear the rail. Of course the Aimpoint Micro T1 is super light. Vltor modstock only has one tube on it, and is flush on the right side. Standard carrier, and Hbuffer. Vltor Milspec buffertube.

When I weighed it, I weighed it without the mag. Even with an empty mag, you can feel the difference in weight to no mag.

On the subject of the SPR, Try at least to get a true SPR contoured bbl. Noveske's SPR bbl on my buddies rig with Vtac handgaurd felt way heavier than my rig. More nose heavy. If you look at it, it's not a stepped contour like the real SPR contour, but instead a taper contour. They're supposedly the same weight, but I swear that the taper put more meat farther out and threw off balance for me.

 

[jason8251]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

Doesn't really matter too much, you'll end up with both anyway, and a .204, .260, and a 6.5 Grendel...

 

[DieTrying310]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

Funny...I've been planning a .204 and 6.5Grendel for a bit now too...don't judge.

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

Katag

 

[5RWill]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Optics:
vortex PST 6.5-24X50mm </div></div>
Are you trying to shoot a mile, lol
I have a 6X-24x on my LR-308, its nice to see the paper so close. Or confirm steel hits out past 800 yards. </div></div>

Nah i just figured since the price difference is only 50$ between the 4-16x50mm and 6.5-24x50mm i'd go with the 6.5-24x50mm.

 

[trilogymac]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

If you have another medium range rifle now, you might consider buying reloading equipment with the cash and shoot what you have, more.

Just a thought.

Trilogymac

 

[jason8251]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

Not judging buddy, just speaking from experience.

 

[DieTrying310]

Re: Building an AR, could use some input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jason8251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not judging buddy, just speaking from experience. </div></div>

I was kidding, internet sucks for inflection. No worries.

I would get into reloading, but I really don't have the time right now. I only get a couple weeks home at a time and I get just enough range time between the family and other chores, then I'm gone again. I'd love to get into it sometime, when I can take the time to really study what I need equipment wise and how to do it properly.