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building new rifle and need advice
- Thread starter gawest
- Start date
Re: building new rifle and need advice
also...
It costs at least 4X to handload ($0.75 = $3)
The brass will last about 4 times less (20X loading = 5X loading)
It erodes the barrel 4X faster (accuracy degrades aafter 3000 rounds = aprox 1500)
You won't find any hunting ammo at Mom & Pop's grocery store, Kmart or WalMart
Those numbers sound about right.
also...
It costs at least 4X to handload ($0.75 = $3)
The brass will last about 4 times less (20X loading = 5X loading)
It erodes the barrel 4X faster (accuracy degrades aafter 3000 rounds = aprox 1500)
You won't find any hunting ammo at Mom & Pop's grocery store, Kmart or WalMart
Those numbers sound about right.
Re: building new rifle and need advice
Have you thought about the 260 Remington or the 6.5 Creedmore?
Have you thought about the 260 Remington or the 6.5 Creedmore?
Re: building new rifle and need advice
To be honest, ballistically speaking many calibers outperform the .308. Hwever, they will all suffer from one or more of the afflictions listed by Victor in TN, to which I will add one more; your shoulder will let you know the difference (for some of them).
As an all around caliber, that is easy to load well, has a vast panoply of available bullets and can shoot really well, the .308 is king. But it does not do EVERYTHING equally well. This depends on what the project is for. What is the goal in building this rifle?
To be honest, ballistically speaking many calibers outperform the .308. Hwever, they will all suffer from one or more of the afflictions listed by Victor in TN, to which I will add one more; your shoulder will let you know the difference (for some of them).
As an all around caliber, that is easy to load well, has a vast panoply of available bullets and can shoot really well, the .308 is king. But it does not do EVERYTHING equally well. This depends on what the project is for. What is the goal in building this rifle?
Re: building new rifle and need advice
Look at the 243, 260 Rem, or 7mm-08. Any of these will outperform a 308 in drop and wind drift with the right bullet. If you don't hand load, then consider the 308.
Look at the 243, 260 Rem, or 7mm-08. Any of these will outperform a 308 in drop and wind drift with the right bullet. If you don't hand load, then consider the 308.
Re: building new rifle and need advice
long range shooting has always been an interest of mine and i have just recently found an adequate range on which to shoot without having to drive forever and a day so i thought about focusing more on learning as much as possible about it before i make any big decisions on buying a full custom rifle and trying to stay in the $1200 to $1500 range for now so no real intentions for the rifle jus range time
long range shooting has always been an interest of mine and i have just recently found an adequate range on which to shoot without having to drive forever and a day so i thought about focusing more on learning as much as possible about it before i make any big decisions on buying a full custom rifle and trying to stay in the $1200 to $1500 range for now so no real intentions for the rifle jus range time
Re: building new rifle and need advice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crosscanyon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no real intentions for the rifle jus range time </div></div>
.308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crosscanyon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no real intentions for the rifle jus range time </div></div>
.308
Re: building new rifle and need advice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">also...
It costs at least 4X to handload ($0.75 = $3)
The brass will last about 4 times less (20X loading = 5X loading)
It erodes the barrel 4X faster (accuracy degrades aafter 3000 rounds = aprox 1500)
You won't find any hunting ammo at Mom & Pop's grocery store, Kmart or WalMart
Those numbers sound about right. </div></div>
I agree with the barrel erosion and not being able to find ammo, but if you keep the 6.5-284 at sane levels you can get way more loadings than 5. I have been running 140's between 2920 and 2940 and I have 11 reloadings on this last lot of brass and there is no evidence of case head separation as of yet. I did anneal the necks after about 7 reloadings. Also comparable bullets usually cost about $5 more for the 30 caliber.
Just another option, 6mmBR. If you are wanting to shoot a LOT this is about as fun a caliber as you will find. Cheap to shoot, light recoil, great barrel life and scary accurate. The only draw back I have found with the 6mmBR is feeding from the magazine can give you problems sometimes.
David
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">also...
It costs at least 4X to handload ($0.75 = $3)
The brass will last about 4 times less (20X loading = 5X loading)
It erodes the barrel 4X faster (accuracy degrades aafter 3000 rounds = aprox 1500)
You won't find any hunting ammo at Mom & Pop's grocery store, Kmart or WalMart
Those numbers sound about right. </div></div>
I agree with the barrel erosion and not being able to find ammo, but if you keep the 6.5-284 at sane levels you can get way more loadings than 5. I have been running 140's between 2920 and 2940 and I have 11 reloadings on this last lot of brass and there is no evidence of case head separation as of yet. I did anneal the necks after about 7 reloadings. Also comparable bullets usually cost about $5 more for the 30 caliber.
Just another option, 6mmBR. If you are wanting to shoot a LOT this is about as fun a caliber as you will find. Cheap to shoot, light recoil, great barrel life and scary accurate. The only draw back I have found with the 6mmBR is feeding from the magazine can give you problems sometimes.
David
Re: building new rifle and need advice
If you handload, the .260 is a significantly better choice. If you don't, the 7mm-08 or .243 are fairly good alternatives.
I think the .308/7.62X51 NATO is an excellent cartridge in its original guise, the M-80 ball cartridge, with 147-155gr bullets. With heavier bullets, tasked with longer distance performance, I think it comes up short.
The .260 uses the same case capacity more effectively, in my humble opinion. But without handloading, the ammo choices are far from the kind of choices that the .308 provides. When you're stuck with factory ammo, the .243 and 7mm-08 have a better range of choices.
If all you want is range time, or if you really want to get serious about marksmanship practice, skip right down past the .223 and go directly to the .22LR. No matter what else you get/build, get the .22LR.
When building a rifle, you need an action, but the barrel is the thing that's going to make the most difference.
Don't compromise, neither in matching specs to application, nor in quality.
If you want a hunter, light-to-mid weight contour, 22-24" length are going to be a good ballpark to play within.
Quality is about bore condition, a good crown, and metallurgy/stress patterns that don't induce a walking zero. Sometimes a factory take-off will work fine with a re-crown and some minor bore lapping. Specialized chambers buy quirks as well as accuracy. They typically make for ammo finickyness, and don't go as well with factory ammo. SAAMI chambers eliminate a lot of questions in this area.
Factory actions are quite good, and get better when trued. A good recoil lug (most factory lugs are fine, maybe could use a little grinding to make them truer), and a good bedding job is pretty much essential.
Finding a stock that fits you properly, and suits the application, is another key step toward building a successful rifle. First time out, this does not need to be something from the top end. Feel and handle lots of stocks, then make an informed choice. All kinds of adjustability is maybe more trouble than help with a first gun. Many who have them set them once then leave them. Kinda defeats the purpose of those pricy adjustable features. LOP, cheek rest height, these are important. Fixed measurements, the right measurements, are fine for the first time gun build. First try, then buy.
Optics/sights are crucial. Action shooting works best with a dot scope/reflex sight. Basic woodland/meadow hunting calls for a 3-9 magnification, and objective sizes depend on how dark it will be when you're taking the shot. Heavily weighted Dawn/Dusk usage wants more than a 40mm objective, otherwise the 40mm objective is a good choice. Competitive shooting wants a higher mag and and a wider range of mags. I use 6-24X42 and find it a very good overall solution to competitive still shooting from 50yd to 1000yd.
Quality in optics are largely about optical precision and aiming adjustment reliability. Very simply, unless you are planning an application which places extraordinary demands in these areas, save the money for the second scope on the second gun. If you shoot one distance, don't do much dim light shooting, and/or zero and go with Kentucky windage, the more luxurious extras are simply wasted on you.
First guns are learning guns, and steppingstones to a more serious, more specialized implements. Don't bet the whole farm on it, and when posed with a choice, choose generic over specialized. Be more specialized when you know more about the specialties.
Greg
If you handload, the .260 is a significantly better choice. If you don't, the 7mm-08 or .243 are fairly good alternatives.
I think the .308/7.62X51 NATO is an excellent cartridge in its original guise, the M-80 ball cartridge, with 147-155gr bullets. With heavier bullets, tasked with longer distance performance, I think it comes up short.
The .260 uses the same case capacity more effectively, in my humble opinion. But without handloading, the ammo choices are far from the kind of choices that the .308 provides. When you're stuck with factory ammo, the .243 and 7mm-08 have a better range of choices.
If all you want is range time, or if you really want to get serious about marksmanship practice, skip right down past the .223 and go directly to the .22LR. No matter what else you get/build, get the .22LR.
When building a rifle, you need an action, but the barrel is the thing that's going to make the most difference.
Don't compromise, neither in matching specs to application, nor in quality.
If you want a hunter, light-to-mid weight contour, 22-24" length are going to be a good ballpark to play within.
Quality is about bore condition, a good crown, and metallurgy/stress patterns that don't induce a walking zero. Sometimes a factory take-off will work fine with a re-crown and some minor bore lapping. Specialized chambers buy quirks as well as accuracy. They typically make for ammo finickyness, and don't go as well with factory ammo. SAAMI chambers eliminate a lot of questions in this area.
Factory actions are quite good, and get better when trued. A good recoil lug (most factory lugs are fine, maybe could use a little grinding to make them truer), and a good bedding job is pretty much essential.
Finding a stock that fits you properly, and suits the application, is another key step toward building a successful rifle. First time out, this does not need to be something from the top end. Feel and handle lots of stocks, then make an informed choice. All kinds of adjustability is maybe more trouble than help with a first gun. Many who have them set them once then leave them. Kinda defeats the purpose of those pricy adjustable features. LOP, cheek rest height, these are important. Fixed measurements, the right measurements, are fine for the first time gun build. First try, then buy.
Optics/sights are crucial. Action shooting works best with a dot scope/reflex sight. Basic woodland/meadow hunting calls for a 3-9 magnification, and objective sizes depend on how dark it will be when you're taking the shot. Heavily weighted Dawn/Dusk usage wants more than a 40mm objective, otherwise the 40mm objective is a good choice. Competitive shooting wants a higher mag and and a wider range of mags. I use 6-24X42 and find it a very good overall solution to competitive still shooting from 50yd to 1000yd.
Quality in optics are largely about optical precision and aiming adjustment reliability. Very simply, unless you are planning an application which places extraordinary demands in these areas, save the money for the second scope on the second gun. If you shoot one distance, don't do much dim light shooting, and/or zero and go with Kentucky windage, the more luxurious extras are simply wasted on you.
First guns are learning guns, and steppingstones to a more serious, more specialized implements. Don't bet the whole farm on it, and when posed with a choice, choose generic over specialized. Be more specialized when you know more about the specialties.
Greg
Re: building new rifle and need advice
From what I understand the 6.5 creedmore has the ballistics of the 300 WM with less barrel wear and less recoil than the .308.
Also they have apparently been hunting with it accross the pond.
I'm no expert but sounds like a pretty good round to me.
http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/
From what I understand the 6.5 creedmore has the ballistics of the 300 WM with less barrel wear and less recoil than the .308.
Also they have apparently been hunting with it accross the pond.
I'm no expert but sounds like a pretty good round to me.
http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/
Re: building new rifle and need advice
just a thought.the 260 is all so a 6.5mm bullet.and it shoots very good.recoil is like a 308 may even be alittle softer.and with a 1:8 twist barrel you would be able to shot a 140g bullet.and if I had to choose a barrel I would go with a 5c/5r in a varment weight.but if you really want to save money and time I would just get a 5r milspec in a 308.they shot right out of the box.and thats with good factory match ammo.so you can spend 1grand on the rifel and 5hundred on a good scope.thats what I did,and I even did it again by getting one in a 223.the next one will be a 300wm.
just a thought.the 260 is all so a 6.5mm bullet.and it shoots very good.recoil is like a 308 may even be alittle softer.and with a 1:8 twist barrel you would be able to shot a 140g bullet.and if I had to choose a barrel I would go with a 5c/5r in a varment weight.but if you really want to save money and time I would just get a 5r milspec in a 308.they shot right out of the box.and thats with good factory match ammo.so you can spend 1grand on the rifel and 5hundred on a good scope.thats what I did,and I even did it again by getting one in a 223.the next one will be a 300wm.
Re: building new rifle and need advice
i was asking the exact same question and after reading tons of posts on tons of forums i went with a 260 and 28 inch sheilin barrel on a mod 70 action. since this was my first rifle i planned on shooting at 1000 yds i figured i would rather give up a little speed and save my barrel for more trigger time.
i defintally made the right choice
i was asking the exact same question and after reading tons of posts on tons of forums i went with a 260 and 28 inch sheilin barrel on a mod 70 action. since this was my first rifle i planned on shooting at 1000 yds i figured i would rather give up a little speed and save my barrel for more trigger time.
i defintally made the right choice
Re: building new rifle and need advice
I love my 6.5's but I shoot a lot and am building up a 308 for using in practice as I can not afford to replace 6.5 barrels as often as I do if I shoot them 100% of the time. For F-class comps and practice this year I used a 6.5 x 47 L and got 1,700 rounds before the accuracy went south, and it was not shot with a hot load. I can not afford two barrels a year and that is about what I need with the 6.5's.
I know practicing with a different round than competing with will cause some difference in wind reads so I know this is not the best solution but I will give it try. Ask me next year about this time how it went.
I love my 6.5's but I shoot a lot and am building up a 308 for using in practice as I can not afford to replace 6.5 barrels as often as I do if I shoot them 100% of the time. For F-class comps and practice this year I used a 6.5 x 47 L and got 1,700 rounds before the accuracy went south, and it was not shot with a hot load. I can not afford two barrels a year and that is about what I need with the 6.5's.
I know practicing with a different round than competing with will cause some difference in wind reads so I know this is not the best solution but I will give it try. Ask me next year about this time how it went.
Re: building new rifle and need advice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crosscanyon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks for the info i wasnt sure which way to go i currently shoot a 300 win mag but it's a bit rough for a day out just shooting so 308 it is </div></div>
Get a limbsaver pad, a muzzle break or better yet a suppressor and the recoil will be much less.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crosscanyon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks for the info i wasnt sure which way to go i currently shoot a 300 win mag but it's a bit rough for a day out just shooting so 308 it is </div></div>
Get a limbsaver pad, a muzzle break or better yet a suppressor and the recoil will be much less.
