Bullet and powder advice for 1:8 .223 for target/coyote shooting

[Rodney65]

Sorry in advance for asking something so basic but it would save me a lot of scouring the internet.

I am planning on purchasing a T3X Lite in .223 with a 22" 1:8 barrel for coyote hunting and target shooting. I have seen people get great accuracy out of T3X Lite contour barrels with a slow cadence of fire. Max mag length will be 2.44".

I am looking for a bullet and powder combination that is easy to load for (I don't want to chase the lands), is economical, and has decent terminal effects for predator control. I had initially planned to use 69gr SMKs but I am not seeing a lot of love for them online.

Bullets available to me in bulk in my price range include:

Sierre 69gr SMK
Sierra 77gr SMK
Sierra 77gr TMK
Hornady 75gr ELD-M
Hornady 73gr ELD-M

There are also lots of lighter bullets but I wasn't sure they would work as well in wind, in a 1:8, or in wind although I am far from an expert (obviously.) They include 52gr ELD-M, 55gr SMK, and 60gr TMK among others.

Powder available here is a bit limited with CFE 223 and Varget being what I think would work best. I plan to use Remington 7 1/2 primers.

 

[TicTacTex]

.223 - 5.56

Same Data

www.snipershide.com

TONS of info in that thread.

Can’t go wrong with 75ELDM and 77 S/TMK.
I’d still stay in the heavier side (75/77gr) with a 1:8 twist barrel.

Varget will do the trick. So will Ramshot TAC, and man many others. All that info will be in the thread I linked.

 

[Rodney65]

.223 - 5.56

Same Data

www.snipershide.com

TONS of info in that thread.

Can’t go wrong with 75ELDM and 77 S/TMK.
I’d still stay in the heavier side (75/77gr) with a 1:8 twist barrel.

Varget will do the trick. So will Ramshot TAC, and man many others. All that info will be in the thread I linked.

Thanks for the reply. I do admit it was kind of lazy starting a new thread for this.

You feel 69gr is getting a bit too light? I only ask because they seem to be considerably cheaper than 75 to 77gr bullets.

 

[TicTacTex]

Thanks for the reply. I do admit it was kind of lazy starting a new thread for this.

You feel 69gr is getting a bit too light? I only ask because they seem to be considerably cheaper than 75 to 77gr bullets.

Not at all. I wouldn’t hesitate to use them with an 8 twist barrel.

 

[John?]

Varget and the 69grain match king will get it done just fine. That’s a popular service rifle load around here.

I also use lighter soft point bullets on the yodel dogs. 55 grain Hornady SP is cheap and kills them across our pasture. We don’t shoot them past 400 on our place.

 

[Rodney65]

Varget and the 69grain match king will get it done just fine. That’s a popular service rifle load around here.

I also use lighter soft point bullets on the yodel dogs. 55 grain Hornady SP is cheap and kills them across our pasture. We don’t shoot them past 400 on our place.

Thanks for the reply.

I figured 55gr would work for the yotes but I also like plinking at farther distances and want just one versatile load if possible.

 

[memilanuk]

Dunno where they fall price-wise, but maybe the 62gn ELD-VT would be a fit for your use case? Haven't tried them myself yet, so can't really say anything more about them other than they seem impressive... if they live up to the hype.

 

[ruger35]

It's a factory Tikka barrel, but my 223 absolutely drives tacks with the 77SMK's.

 

[Rodney65]

It's a factory Tikka barrel, but my 223 absolutely drives tacks with the 77SMK's.

Good to know! Is it a Varmint contour or a Lite or something else?

 

[Rodney65]

Dunno where they fall price-wise, but maybe the 62gn ELD-VT would be a fit for your use case? Haven't tried them myself yet, so can't really say anything more about them other than they seem impressive... if they live up to the hype.

They seem to be a bit more money but not bad.

My go to cartridge for years has been 6.5cm so I was quite surprised that .224 bullets are almost as a much as .264 bullets. I guess the big savings is in powder.

 

[ruger35]

Good to know! Is it a Varmint contour or a Lite or something else?

It’s the Super Varmint rifle, so I’d have to guess a varmint contour.

 

[rlsmith1]

How far are you shooting? I limit myself to 250y or 300y with a 223; any further and I'll grab the 6 CM, 6 ARC or 25 CM.

After shooting a handful of ground hogs this summer with different bullets, the SMKs just weren't doing what I wanted so I've witched to varmint bullets for varmints

 

[DairyDictator]

I ran a lot of 75 ELDM's through a couple different barrels. I had more success with N135 and H4895 than Varget.

 

[Rodney65]

How far are you shooting? I limit myself to 250y or 300y with a 223; any further and I'll grab the 6 CM, 6 ARC or 25 CM.

After shooting a handful of ground hogs this summer with different bullets, the SMKs just weren't doing what I wanted so I've witched to varmint bullets for varmints

Mostly 300 yards and under for coyotes but occasionally a bit further. Plinking a bit farther yet.

Why weren't the SMKs performing? Just not enough expansion and energy transfer?

 

[Rodney65]

I ran a lot of 75 ELDM's through a couple different barrels. I had more success with N135 and H4895 than Varget.

Unfortunately CFE 223 and Varget are much more available up here so I am limited in what I can use.

 

[rlsmith1]

Mostly 300 yards and under for coyotes but occasionally a bit further. Plinking a bit farther yet.

Why weren't the SMKs performing? Just not enough expansion and energy transfer?

I'm not sure, the only one I shot (twice) with the SMKs ran away and left a blood trail The others shot with ELD VTs and Vmax died right away. In short, yes I think it was expansion and energy transfer. AAC does load 55, 62, and 75 gr Sabre bullets which seem to be close to a Vmax from what I've read so that may be worth a look.

You will be leaving accuracy (and probably velocity) on the table though if you don't reload though

 

[usafa77]

Ive been using 75g from ROcky mountain reloading, perform better than the Hornady’s and cheaper.

 

[softcock]

I am planning on purchasing a T3X Lite in .223 with a 22" 1:8 barrel for coyote hunting and target shooting.

I just worked-up a .223 load with some Nosler 60 Grn. BTV last week. Accuracy was there and they seemed to like to be pushed.
also factory states 'minimum' 1600 fps vel. for expansion down range.
.

 

[Rodney65]

I just worked-up a .223 load with some Nosler 60 Grn. BTV last week. Accuracy was there and they seemed to like to be pushed.
also factory states 'minimum' 1600 fps vel. for expansion down range.
.

Good to know. They are a bit pricier than rounds like the 75gr ELD-M but not too bad.

 

[Yoteski]

60 grain Tmk is magic on coyotes in a 223.

 

[waveslayer]

I use XBR, Target and CFE using 75-7< grain pills

 

[DLS]

For 223 1/8 twist no real need to look past 60gr VMax. With AR’s we have killed literally 100’s of predators and pigs

 

[redbullitt]

The 75 rmr bullets are quite good for typical shooting, and the price is right.

69smk will do fine without breaking the bank. Have shot tons of them and no complaints. 77 is great too, but costs more and may not be worth it to ya.

I like the 75amax a lot when you have good room in the mag or can single feed them and get some case volume back.

 

[Rider47]

I'm with rlsmith1 - Using target bullets for hunting larger varmints is . . .
My varmint load is 55gr. SBK's (or other equivalent varmint pills). While there will be a slight loss of wind resistance at distance relative to 69/77SMK's, the 55's can be driven very fast/flat and the terminal performance on larger varmints is awesome. I use H4895 for 55 gr. and 69 gr. loads (yes - H4895 is hard to find), and Varget for 77's. I win precision matches with these loads in an AR-15. Careful load development can MORE than compensate for any LD precision loss due to reduced BC. I would not recommend a priori abandoning of "chasing the lands" if you want to find an optimum precision load tuned to your rifle.

 

[tekmann2377]

Have you considered the 53 Vmax as well? It is a bit more finicky than the other 55/60 Vmax but has a better BC and will buck the wind better. It can also be pushed quite a bit faster than the heavier bullets to stay above a reasonable expansion threshold.

 

[semperfireloading]

Sorry in advance for asking something so basic but it would save me a lot of scouring the internet.

I am planning on purchasing a T3X Lite in .223 with a 22" 1:8 barrel for coyote hunting and target shooting. I have seen people get great accuracy out of T3X Lite contour barrels with a slow cadence of fire. Max mag length will be 2.44".

I am looking for a bullet and powder combination that is easy to load for (I don't want to chase the lands), is economical, and has decent terminal effects for predator control. I had initially planned to use 69gr SMKs but I am not seeing a lot of love for them online.

Bullets available to me in bulk in my price range include:

Sierre 69gr SMK
Sierra 77gr SMK
Sierra 77gr TMK
Hornady 75gr ELD-M
Hornady 73gr ELD-M

There are also lots of lighter bullets but I wasn't sure they would work as well in wind, in a 1:8, or in wind although I am far from an expert (obviously.) They include 52gr ELD-M, 55gr SMK, and 60gr TMK among others.

Powder available here is a bit limited with CFE 223 and Varget being what I think would work best. I plan to use Remington 7 1/2 primers.

Hello. I would use none of those bullets for your use. I think what you want is:

Accurate 2230: 26.0 grains, 2.255 OAL. 55 grain Nosler FB Tipped or 55 Grain Blitzking, etc.

That will yield around 3275 FPS, fire very flat to 200 yards, and be sub MOA. Excellent load.

 

[Rodney65]

Have you considered the 53 Vmax as well? It is a bit more finicky than the other 55/60 Vmax but has a better BC and will buck the wind better. It can also be pushed quite a bit faster than the heavier bullets to stay above a reasonable expansion threshold.

I had not as I got it in my head that 55gr was the lower end of bullet weights for a 1:8 twist.

 

[Rodney65]

Hello. I would use none of those bullets for your use. I think what you want is:

Accurate 2230: 26.0 grains, 2.255 OAL. 55 grain Nosler FB Tipped or 55 Grain Blitzking, etc.

That will yield around 3275 FPS, fire very flat to 200 yards, and be sub MOA. Excellent load.

I have not seen Accurate 223 up here much and shipping has become something of a nightmare but if it becomes available I would grab some.

I haf just assumed that most tipped or HP match ammo was more than adequate for small/medium game and a heavier bullet would be more accurate. I will have to look into the availability of some of the lighter varmint specific rounds.

 

[Rodney65]

For 223 1/8 twist no real need to look past 60gr VMax. With AR’s we have killed literally 100’s of predators and pigs

Do you plink with them or go past 300 yards much? With a flat base and G1 BC I would have thought that limits the range but I don't really know.

 

[riverside jeep]

I had not as I got it in my head that 55gr was the lower end of bullet weights for a 1:8 twist.

I shoot 43 grain speer TNT Green out of my 1:8 with .750 accuracy, the ground squirrels are not fond of them.

 

[tekmann2377]

I had not as I got it in my head that 55gr was the lower end of bullet weights for a 1:8 twist.

Despite the fast twist many 1/7 and 1/8 twist barrelw ill shoot lighter bullets just fine. I have had no issues even shooting 40 Vmax's in a 1/8 twist barrel.

The 53 Vmax has almost the same BC as the 69 SMK. Any number of powders work well with it (RL-10x, Benchmark, H335/748, AA 2230, etc).

 

[memilanuk]

as I got it in my head that 55gr was the lower end of bullet weights for a 1:8 twist.

Some of that depends on the individual bullet, and also how hard you're pushing them. As others have mentioned, there are a *lot* of 50-55gn bullets sent down range from 8 or even 7 twists every year. But if you're inclined to push pressure into the 'red' zone, and/or one of those people who doesn't clean the barrel regularly... it is possible to make the lightweight varmint type bullets come apart before they reach the target. But it usually takes an effort.

assumed that most tipped or HP match ammo was more than adequate for small/medium game

I wouldn't depend on the heavier bullets to reliably expand in smaller / thinner skinned critters. Yeah, they'll dump enough energy relative to the size of the target to kill, but a lot of times when I'm varmint hunting, I'm also concerned about the bullet not going any further past the target than absolutely necessary. It doesn't take a lot of mental horsepower to figure that a 69-75gn HPBT or tipped bullet is going to penetrate through and through with little to no expansion and keep going, vs. a 55gn varmint bullet which will basically detonate on contact. Or as we used to say when slaying prairie dogs... it goes in one side - and there *is* no other side

 

[semperfireloading]

Hi. Basically, for small game like that, the "tipped" bullets will be best. I would say from 60 grain V-MAX down to 50 grain tipped is ideal. All very accurate and high velocity. When they hit small game, they basically turn them partially inside out and are like grenades

 

[DLS]

Do you plink with them or go past 300 yards much? With a flat base and G1 BC I would have thought that limits the range but I don't really know.

We use them to kill stuff. If you have to shoot them past 300 yds then your doing it wrong.

 

[Rodney65]

Well thank you everyone for the insightful replies. It was exactly the information I was lookong for.

 

[Rodney65]

We use them to kill stuff. If you have to shoot them past 300 yds then your doing it wrong.

I often encounter coyotes well past 300 yards with the open prairie we have around here. I don't "have" to shoot them so I guess I'm not doing it wrong but I do like having the option and having a multi use bullet that also works reasonably well for target shooting.

The last one I got I saw plopped down slylined 770 yards away. Carefully using round bales for cover I was able to stalk to a safer firing position exactly 300 yards away and drop him.

 

[DLS]

We call them in so our average shot is 50 yds with an occasional 2-300 yd shot

 

[ggmanning]

Varget and 75 Amax or 77 SMK for my yote bolt gun. We shoot them from point blank to 400 depending on field, hunt pressure, willingness to come in closer etc. Both good killers and good distance bullets for steel. About through my stash of 75 amax.....ELD-M should be very similiar.

 

[Pharmseller]

Tikka barrel swap adventure

I bought a take off 1-8” stainless .223 Tikka barrel from Wind Gypsy to trade with Blue Lightning, my 1-10”. All the other Tikkas I load for are 1-8” that shoot 75 ELDM very, very well so I’m getting away from 50 gr BTs. The 1-8” will shoot 50s but the 1-10” doesn’t like the 75s. Took the...

rokslide.com

P

 

[diggler1833]

That 1:8 twist usually really does well with the 68-77gr stuff. I still have a big stockpile of 69gr SMKs that seem to shoot well in anything from 1:9 down to 1:7 that I've tried them in.

My problem with that bullet is that the last two coyotes I shot with it ran off to die out of sight. The 120 yard frontal shot made about a 200 yard run and I found the remains a month later cutting hay (died in the middle of a meadow in tall grass). I also plugged a boiler room broadside shot on another yote at about 180 yards with that bullet, and found the coyote two weeks later decomposing ~150 yards from where I shot it. I started using my surplus of 64gr Gold Dots, and they are extremely effective on everything from yotes to pigs.

I'd be looking at the 73 and 75gr ELD-M if trying to kill smaller stuff at any reasonable distance is on the menu. The SMK/BTHP stuff can be devastating at times, but unless you meet the threshold of adequate resistance and speed, results will vary wildly.

 

[Pharmseller]

FYI I used one of the 75 gr ELDM loads the last two years to kill Mule deer bucks. One shot apiece, zero distance traveled post-impact.

So, effective on more than just small stuff.




P

 

[Rodney65]

FYI I used one of the 75 gr ELDM loads the last two years to kill Mule deer bucks. One shot apiece, zero distance traveled post-impact.

So, effective on more than just small stuff.




P

A few recommendations for the 75gr ELD-M so far. I use 147gr ELD-M now which work but I had assumed that was due to overkill and not anything special about the bullet. I always thought it had the same expansion properties as any other target bullet but I had heard of lots of people hunting with them. It's popularity made me think any tipped or hollowpoint target bullet would be adequate but I guess it's more like the ELD-X than an SMK?

If it is good game bullet it may make for a good crossover load for me. I can try some of the lighter varmint rounds too.

 

[st1650]

75 ELD-M with Varget try 23.0-24.gr 0.15 - 0.30 off the lands.
It's the easy button.

XBR is also very good with the 75 ELD-M, 22.0-23gr.

 

[straightshooter1]

75 ELD-M with Varget try 23.0-24.gr 0.15 - 0.30 off the lands.
It's the easy button.

XBR is also very good with the 75 ELD-M, 22.0-23gr.

But what if my chamber is .040 sorter than yours. . . or .040 longer?

 

[Pharmseller]

But what if my chamber is .040 shorter than yours. . . or .040 longer?

Off the lands is a relative term.





P

 

[st1650]

Correct, my 223 has a long match chamber so my 75 eldm are loaded at 2.525in which most likely wouldn't fit in a tikka chamber although you can load pretty long in some of the Tikka 223 supervarmint, not sure if it's the same chamber but most likely somewhere in the 2.400 -> 2.500 range

 

[straightshooter1]

Correct, my 223 has a long match chamber so my 75 eldm are loaded at 2.525in which most likely wouldn't fit in a tikka chamber.

Therefore, .015-.030 off the lands in a tikka chamber is a very different seating depth, which tends to make a substantial difference in a chartridge's performance, huh?

 

[st1650]

Therefore, .015-.030 off the lands in a tikka chamber is a very different seating depth, which tends to make a substantial difference in a chartridge's performance, huh?

Well yea the cartridge overall length will make a difference in the performance. That’s why the 75 Eldm doesn’t work in a 2.26in AR15 magazine length because the bullet is too long therefore not enough room in the case for enough powder and you’ll be compressed, the pressure will be highand the jump to the lands is too far for optimum performance. That’s why Hornady offers the 73 eldm for the 2.26in/AR length

Now the Tikka, generally speaking have a longer chamber which allows you to use heavier/longer bullets with better BC but you might be limited by your magazine length at 2.44 which could be resolved with a 3rd party mag.

You may very well find out that the 73 eldm and the 77tmk shoot better than the 75 eldm at 2.44 and perhaps the 75eldm would shoot good if you single round feed them or use a 3rd party mag.

Honestly if you just want something easy, try either the 73eldm, 77 tmk under 23.5gr of varget at your max magazine coal. It’s a combo that’s like impossible not to shoot unless there’s something wrong.
Lapua scenar-l 77gr is another bullet that doesn’t have the most sexy BC but will shoot under almost any circumstances, not sensitive to seating depth.

 

[beetroot]

My Tikka doesn't seemed to like the 75gr ELD-Ms, however the 75gr BTHP and 73gr ELD-Ms were very easy to find a load for and the 73s in particular shot very well.

The SMKs or the 73gr ELD-Ms should be the easiest to find a load for (designed for ARs and more forgiving of seating depth) but TMKs should be ok as well.

I found Varget to be slow in my 18" factory barrel (with 62, 73 and 75gr bullets) so went with Benchmark instead. 8208xbr was a little slower than BM but much faster than Varget.

You could try the new ELD-VT bullets too, the BC on the 62gr is the same as the 73gr ELD-M and just a little lower than the 77gr TMK but should be a good 200fps faster.

 

[straightshooter1]

Well yea the cartridge overall length will make a difference in the performance. That’s why the 75 Eldm doesn’t work in a 2.26in AR15 magazine length because the bullet is too long therefore not enough room in the case for enough powder and you’ll be compressed, the pressure will be highand the jump to the lands is too far for optimum performance. That’s why Hornady offers the 73 eldm for the 2.26in/AR length

Now the Tikka, generally speaking have a longer chamber which allows you to use heavier/longer bullets with better BC but you might be limited by your magazine length at 2.44 which could be resolved with a 3rd party mag.

You may very well find out that the 73 eldm and the 77tmk shoot better than the 75 eldm at 2.44 and perhaps the 75eldm would shoot good if you single round feed them or use a 3rd party mag.

Honestly if you just want something easy, try either the 73eldm, 77 tmk under 23.5gr of varget at your max magazine coal. It’s a combo that’s like impossible not to shoot unless there’s something wrong.
Lapua scenar-l 77gr is another bullet that doesn’t have the most sexy BC but will shoot under almost any circumstances, not sensitive to seating depth.

Understood.

Wouldn't it be better to communicate your cartridge OAL than a distance from the lands given there can be such differences like you mention about the Tikka?