Bullets shooting sideways. more like macaroni

[Davehc130]

OK i have seen keyhole before...it has happened when I was shoot bullets to long for the rifling...however i have NEVER seen this!!! WHAT could cause it?

I was shooting a 147 Hornady Match out of a Proof CF 26 barrel with 57.5 grains of H1000... 6.5 PRC Bighorn TL3 Action

at first I thought maybe they were striking my muzzle break, but I shot 156 Berger EOL with 55.5 grains of H1000 and NO ISSUES...

I did have some pressure signs--heavy bolt lift and swipe marks.

I have never hear of stability problems due to pressure..

What am I missing...I have ruled out crown damage, Muzzle break interferance, stability twist rate....so what am I missing.

 

[lash]

We just finished a thread on this exact same issue with the same 147s a few weeks ago. Let me go see if I can find it for you...

 

[Hawk in WY]

Velocity not pressure.

Bullet coming apart in flight.

I have seen it myself.

 

[db2000]

Advanced Marksmanship - 147 eldm jacket separation?

Having some issues with Hornady’s 147 eldm bullets separating or key holing at 100 yards. Wondering if anyone can post up their findings or link me to the thread this is already contained in? It hurt me pretty good at a recent match so I’m looking to remedy the problem or switch bullets

www.snipershide.com

 

[Tokay444]

It’s not you or your gun.

 

[db2000]

I had several seemingly "evaporate" at the range. 2 spotters both witnessed them. probably 4-5 out of 10 rds that day. Had not seen it before personally.
Seems with my 1:8 twist and 3000 fps it's not getting > 300,000 rpm, so I'm guessing it's the core melting theory.

Hornady Lot# 2191026

Range Report - Jackets and RPM's

Some background: I'm planning on advancing my rifle this summer and I'm planning on going with a 6.5mm, 1-7 twist, 22 inch finish length. It'll be a 6.5x47mm Lapua with a bullet in the 123, 130 (most likely), or 140 class. The bullet selection is going to be 95% match-type with a probability of...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Steel head]

I had it happen with my 260 at 2800 fps.

 

[Davehc130]

thanks...guess I will go back to my Bergers!!!!

 

[Steel head]

thanks...guess I will go back to my Bergers!!!!

I did.
The 140eldm is still a great bullet though.

 

[lash]

Here’s that thread I was talking about:

Tumbling/ bending bullets has me stumped

I have a 6.5 PRC built on a Nucleus action with a Proof Research 8 twist barrel at 26 inches. I bought the action used off of here. The gun had 101 shots thru it when I got it. Now it is doing something that I haven't seen before. This gun shoots under 1/2" groups with the Hornady Match 147...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Davehc130]

Here’s that thread I was talking about:

Tumbling/ bending bullets has me stumped

I have a 6.5 PRC built on a Nucleus action with a Proof Research 8 twist barrel at 26 inches. I bought the action used off of here. The gun had 101 shots thru it when I got it. Now it is doing something that I haven't seen before. This gun shoots under 1/2" groups with the Hornady Match 147...

www.snipershide.com

thanks!

 

[hollowoutadime]

Pretty hot load - Hodgdon likes 49-56.5g

 

[Davehc130]

Velocity not pressure.

Bullet coming apart in flight.

I have seen it myself.

velocity was 2800....they should be coming apart at 2800....55 grains of H1000 out of 26 in barrel

 

[Davehc130]

Pretty hot load - Hodgdon likes 49-56.5g

i tried it again with 55 grains...still the same result...cleaned my barrel to bare metal...first 10 shot...chrono'd after 5 rounds I was getting 2800 FPS

 

[Steel head]

velocity was 2800....they should be coming apart at 2800....55 grains of H1000 out of 26 in barrel

That’s slow for that much powder but I suppose case capacity has pressure super low.
I had approximately 1 in 15 not make it down range in my 260 at that speed.

 

[lash]

I haven’t said anything about this to anyone before this, but early in May I helped run a long range practice. Two guys were shooting factory 6.5 Creedmoor 147g ELDMs at approximately 2700 FPS. At 1000 yards, even after getting them dialed in really well at 800-900, only about 1 in 5 could be seen impacting or missing and making splash. Even after one guy, a solid shooter had things dialed in, only about 1 in 5 could be detected at all. After I suggested that there might be an issue with the 147s, he changed to 140g factory and nailed it at 1000.

I did not see them vaporizing, but there was definitely a noticeable issue. I do know that until Hornady can prove that they’ve solved this issue, I will not be using the 147s.

 

[1moaoff]

I had it happen with my 260 at 2800 fps.

That's because the 260 is outdated

 

[lash]

That's because the 260 is outdated

What?!? Heresy! Death to the unbeliever!

P.S. I don’t have Steelhead’s meme.

 

[Steel head]

That's because the 260 is outdated

NEVER!

 

[Carlos Danger]

Possible they're coming in sideways and just the way that particular paper / cardboard is not tearing cleanly.

 

[lash]

Possible they're coming in sideways and just the way that particular paper / cardboard is not tearing cleanly.

There are at least five different posts by different people, over a period of more than six months, that have posted the same type of elbow macaroni impact, so this is neither isolated nor a misread. This is the copper separating from the lead and being deformed in the process. It is not an isolated instance.

 

[Carlos Danger]

There are at least five different posts by different people, over a period of more than six months, that have posted the same type of elbow macaroni impact, so this is neither isolated nor a misread. This is the copper separating from the lead and being deformed in the process. It is not an isolated instance.

Just puttin it out there.

 

[LiveToDrive]

Is there a consistent velocity this is happening? It sounds like 2800 fps? The factory ammo shot really good out of my 23" barrel but only 2625 fps. So I am loading with H4350 to 41.2 gr and getting around 2705 which I am happy with. I haven't had a problem, but I've only shot up to 41.9 gr and about 2755 fps.

 

[hollowoutadime]

There are at least five different posts by different people, over a period of more than six months, that have posted the same type of elbow macaroni impact, so this is neither isolated nor a misread. This is the copper separating from the lead and being deformed in the process. It is not an isolated instance.

Good info lash, caution if using a can. You don't want jacket separation with that.

 

[db2000]

Is there a consistent velocity this is happening? It sounds like 2800 fps? The factory ammo shot really good out of my 23" barrel but only 2625 fps. So I am loading with H4350 to 41.2 gr and getting around 2705 which I am happy with. I haven't had a problem, but I've only shot up to 41.9 gr and about 2755 fps.

Supposedly it’s more rpm’s than velocity. Of course velocity and barre twist are both calculated in the formula. The faster the twist and higher the velocity the higher the rpm’s.
> 300K seems to be the problem.

 

[Steel head]

Supposedly it’s more rpm’s than velocity. Of course velocity and barre twist are both calculated in the formula. The faster the twist and higher the velocity the higher the rpm’s.
> 300K seems to be the problem.

I had problems with multiple ELDM’s a good bit below 300k

Extremely
Low
Drag
Macaroni
?

 

[db2000]

I had problems with multiple ELDM’s a good bit below 300k

Extremely
Low
Drag
Macaroni
?

As did I. Like 270K rpm’s. I should’ve restated from my earlier post that the second theory is the lead core partially melting and separating from the jacket.