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Bushnell xrs3 vs Razor 2 ---who is the better glass.
- Thread starter matchman
- Start date
HAHA.....
Bushnell XRS3 by a mile.......unless for some dumb reason, you think you need illumination
Bushnell XRS3 by a mile.......unless for some dumb reason, you think you need illumination
Yeah, I have 3 of each and every Bushnell XRS 3 i have bests the Razor Gen 2's in all conditions, particularly past 800 yards.
I'm excited to get my Gen III..............thanks Liberty Optics! Hopefully have it in the next month.
XRS3 < Iron Sights < Magpul Flip ups < Counter Sniper < Tasco < Vortex Everything
Had both at the range today....over cast and cold. Overall, IMHO the Razor HD III edges the XRS III. Razor's turrets are stiffer, but I like that. The locking feature I'm going to have to get use to because its the first scope I've ever owned that had that. Reticle: not crazy about either one of them. Not a fan of Christmas tree reticles: seems like a solution to problem that doesn't exist....at least for me. If I'm clicking up to 547 yds, what do I need the fan reticle for? If I'm NOT clicking up, why do I care about turret feel, sound, etc? Seems some folks like splitting RCH's. Optically, its close, but the Razor is better....for my old eyeballs. Gonna take out my 20+ yr old PMII next week and compare it to the Razor. For the $$$$$, the XRS III is a great scope! but I really like the HD III.
Like I said the weather was NOT good for glass examination, but what I could see, @ 300 yds, the Razor was better. Next weekend looks worse, so maybe I won't go out and do the PMII compare. My buddy, shooting a NF, and he is NOT a Vortex fan, commented that the scope's glass was very bright and clear.
Well, one would hope the Razor III would blow away the XRS3.
The OP was asking about XRS3 vs Gen2 razor which is no contest.
I know...I know...I read the post wrong, but due to the ' error of my ways', I decided to give a better comparo between the XRS III and the HD III. I know, its a HD II thread...but I don't have one of those. If you don't want to know/read, skip it.
Partly sunny, sun at my back, with both scopes were set up on some spruce tree cones, at 348 yards, with alot of contrasting colors: browns, greens, grays, etc. In a nutshell, no comparison! the HDIII was brighter, sharper, clearer, etc at 20/28/36X. I didn't bother going lower in the power range. I've never looked at a HD II and bought the III totally on the first reviews I read, from folks shooting ZCO/TT....they were impressed with the optics, but had issues with the turrets/etc. I don't expect a ZCO at the LE price I got the HD III at, but I was very impressed with the XRS III when I first got it and was surprised that the HD III was THAT much better. I'm VERY happy!!!
Partly sunny, sun at my back, with both scopes were set up on some spruce tree cones, at 348 yards, with alot of contrasting colors: browns, greens, grays, etc. In a nutshell, no comparison! the HDIII was brighter, sharper, clearer, etc at 20/28/36X. I didn't bother going lower in the power range. I've never looked at a HD II and bought the III totally on the first reviews I read, from folks shooting ZCO/TT....they were impressed with the optics, but had issues with the turrets/etc. I don't expect a ZCO at the LE price I got the HD III at, but I was very impressed with the XRS III when I first got it and was surprised that the HD III was THAT much better. I'm VERY happy!!!
You say........ "but I was very impressed with the XRS III when I first got it and was surprised that the HD III was THAT much better. I'm VERY happy!!!"
And that is awesome. It is also why so many people say Scope X is "better than" or "just as good as" Scope Y.
Our eyes do wonderful things to adjust. The only true way to know what is "better" is to have them side x side in the SAME conditions, same day, one moment to the next, back and forth. Our eyes cannot "remember" what is better from one day to the next. How often do we drive with bird shit and bugs all over the windshield. Amazing how we always go "wow" once we clean the windshield.
Thanks for the comparison. I've got 3 bushnell XRS3 and now have Two Gen 3 Razors (on the way, don't have them yet). I fully expect the "wow" factor with the Vortex III.
Let us know what you think as well
Turret Note: last night I spun all three of my scopes, for a comparo: XRS III, HD III, and my 20+ yr old PMII. The softest feeling, by far, was the XRS III, the firmest the PMII, HD III in the middle.
I'm in the under $2k range. It seams the Razor 2 has been the gold standard in the 2k-2.5k price range especially popular in PRS . I'm finally in a position to purchase and the xrs3 is out.(nervous on this purchase) My MasterPiece arms BA is on the way in 6BRA. It's decision time.
Are you able to look at one? For me my eyes never got along with the Vortex specially past 18 power it always seems to get fuzzy but my eyes might be crazy. I would pick Athlon cronus over it minox lr easily bushnell xrs3 and I've heard great things on burris xtr3 which is on sale now because the new version coming out.
So far, I've never had to send back a Bushnell elite for any reason in the past 5 years....XRS 2's and now the new XRS3. In the past two years, I've sent back one Gen 2 razor for a canting reticle as you zoom in/out (loose gimbal screw). And a Vortex Razor Light Hunter 2-10x40mm for a Cracked Objective lense.
Despite all that (I'm taking my chances on two new Vortex Razor Gen 3 6-36 models). Why, because I know they will take care of any issues I may have down the road within two weeks time frame, no matter the reason. They have one incredible warranty (and the Razor Line of scopes is pretty reliable)
I hear Leupold is the most reliable at tracking and robustness............they also seem to survive the drop test more consistently
And there we have it.
Good luck on the Razor Gen 3, though - would be good to see V get it right.
Gen 3 is legit. I need to compare more but it's quite a bit better than the XRS3..........particularly above 25x.
I'm thoroughly impressed with the Bushnell XRS 3 though...............that scope really would never hold me back.
I guess I'll have to be the first dissenting opinion... just spent the morning going back and forth between the Razor HDG2 and XRS3 out to 1000yrds. I still preferred the Razor's glass.
I have had an XRS3 in the ol' cart for a few days now and was ready to click "check out" once I'd got a chance to play with one (truthfully, in part because Liberty Optics is sold out of the Razor G3's right now and I'm cheap lol).
Now, after comparing them back to back, I'm going to pass on the XRS3 and just wait until I can save a few bucks on a Razor G3 again, or maybe just hold onto the HDG2 and not even bother with a new scope right now (I rarely go above 18x anyways, but everyone likes new shit soooo).
To me, and my eyes, the ol' Razor's image seemed sharper and more crisp pretty much all of the time. If I really took some time and tried to dial in the parallax on the XRS3, then I could get it about as good or maybe/arguably nicer than the Razor... but with the Razor, I could/can pretty much park the parallax knob at "infinity" and shoot from 600-1000yrds without ever really having to touch it (unless I wanted to really sharpen the image as perfectly as possible of course). The Bushy not so much, I was on the parallax knob more than I'm used to for sure, and I wouldn't be able to just park the knob like I'm used to with the Razor. In fact, for matches, when it's 90 seconds to make 10 shots at varying distances, the Bushy might drive me crazy since I can count on one hand the times I've played with my parallax mid-stage using the Razor (might explain some of my misses too lol). IDK...
Also, and this has nothing to do with the glass (but is still worth mentioning because it jumped out at me), the turrets on the Bushy kind of suck, it's noticeable, they should've made them a little better seeing as it's their top-shelf offering IMO.
That said, as far as value, and with the Razor's recent price increase, if buying new I'd probably lean towards the XRS3. But, since Razor HDG2's are still popping up in the PX for ~$1700 and I haven't seen the Bushy for less than that, for the same money I'd still pick the Razor.
JMHO/YMMV
I have had an XRS3 in the ol' cart for a few days now and was ready to click "check out" once I'd got a chance to play with one (truthfully, in part because Liberty Optics is sold out of the Razor G3's right now and I'm cheap lol).
Now, after comparing them back to back, I'm going to pass on the XRS3 and just wait until I can save a few bucks on a Razor G3 again, or maybe just hold onto the HDG2 and not even bother with a new scope right now (I rarely go above 18x anyways, but everyone likes new shit soooo).
To me, and my eyes, the ol' Razor's image seemed sharper and more crisp pretty much all of the time. If I really took some time and tried to dial in the parallax on the XRS3, then I could get it about as good or maybe/arguably nicer than the Razor... but with the Razor, I could/can pretty much park the parallax knob at "infinity" and shoot from 600-1000yrds without ever really having to touch it (unless I wanted to really sharpen the image as perfectly as possible of course). The Bushy not so much, I was on the parallax knob more than I'm used to for sure, and I wouldn't be able to just park the knob like I'm used to with the Razor. In fact, for matches, when it's 90 seconds to make 10 shots at varying distances, the Bushy might drive me crazy since I can count on one hand the times I've played with my parallax mid-stage using the Razor (might explain some of my misses too lol). IDK...
Also, and this has nothing to do with the glass (but is still worth mentioning because it jumped out at me), the turrets on the Bushy kind of suck, it's noticeable, they should've made them a little better seeing as it's their top-shelf offering IMO.
That said, as far as value, and with the Razor's recent price increase, if buying new I'd probably lean towards the XRS3. But, since Razor HDG2's are still popping up in the PX for ~$1700 and I haven't seen the Bushy for less than that, for the same money I'd still pick the Razor.
JMHO/YMMV
How much time did you spending tweeking the "reticle focus" Diopter on the XRS3. That has a big "to do" with the XRS3 image quality. You'll find 45 to 90 degrees of a turn will dramatically change the "clarity". Same thing on the older XRS2.
Doesn't really matter to me, but just an FYI, in case you didn't give it much thought.
I notice the razor isn't as "picky" when tuning the fast focus. One thing I also like about the Razor Gen 2's is the paralax and "depth of field", much as you describe. I find with my XRS 3 bushies however that I easily get 300 yards one way or another with sharp image...........So 500 yard parallax is clear from 200 yards to 800 yards without much fuss.
I agree spend the extra time on setting the scope to your eye then lock it in. Mine xrs3 was good but my dad bought the newer sightron svlll 5 40 56 and I was really disappointed but I started playing with the scope more and wow it really helped. Once it's set it'd good to go
I haven't spent much time at all with it, I wear contacts that correct my vision (mostly) 24/7 and I end up with the diopter more or less all the way in on most scopes, sometimes a half of a turn out or less. The XRS3 was pretty easy to get dialed for my eyes (just like the Razor really), but yeah, maybe I could have spent more time with it.
I liked it. Just not enough to "cross-grade" from an HDG2 is all. I'm sure part of my opinion is biased by familiarity, and glass aside, I also prefer how beefy the Razors are, and that colors things too I guess (speaking of color, no question the Bushy wins with black, still don't love the
I do think for right around $2k, for scope and a good mount, the XRS3 is the scope to get since Vortex upped the prices on the Gen2 Razors. $2500 at most places for the HDG2 says to me "probably should just spend a bit more and get the Gen3.." (which is maybe part of Vortex's strategy?).
Had a chance to look through the XRS3 again next to the Razor HDG2 one last time (just out my kitchen window out to about 400 yards). I spent a little more time setting the diopter ring, and still feel like I prefer the Razor ~15-18x. That said, to me, the Bushy seemed nicer when I started to add more magnification, and as I got towards the Razor's top end (27x) the Bushy looked better up there for sure. Not sure that matters to me though, since I don't really crank up the magnification often (YMMV).
What I noticed that does definitely matter to me is some of the Bushy's reticle quirks that I kind of hate: like the weirdo 1.2mil hash that I can't ignore/unsee now that I noticed it, and that there are no vertical 1/10th mil lines (so you can't really mil with it)?
I don't mil-range stuff very often, but I do use the vertical 1/10th mil lines towards the top of the Razor's reticle "all the time" when adjusting my B.C. in my calculator (measuring POA vs POI on steel at 750/1000/1250), that's kind of a big one IMHO... I'd miss having that.
Better glass or not, the XRS3's reticle is a no-go for me.
What I noticed that does definitely matter to me is some of the Bushy's reticle quirks that I kind of hate: like the weirdo 1.2mil hash that I can't ignore/unsee now that I noticed it, and that there are no vertical 1/10th mil lines (so you can't really mil with it)?
I don't mil-range stuff very often, but I do use the vertical 1/10th mil lines towards the top of the Razor's reticle "all the time" when adjusting my B.C. in my calculator (measuring POA vs POI on steel at 750/1000/1250), that's kind of a big one IMHO... I'd miss having that.
Better glass or not, the XRS3's reticle is a no-go for me.
Proof that we all have individual preference. I love the Bushnell ret
I also love the new Burris SQR 1/4 in the new pro
Point is...lots of different tastes....it's nice to have a lot of good options these days! Scopes and reticle options have come along way in 10 years!
To my eyes, I always found the XRS ii glass better than Gen ii Razor glass and I spent a good bit of time behind both. I have a pair of the new XRS3's and they are significantly better than the existing XRS ii. I haven't had my XRS3 next to a Gen ii Razor, but I expect in the glass department it blows it out of the water given the improvements over the XRS ii. I also have found the Bushnells to be more forgiving in the parallax and eye box department. Not to say the Gen ii is a bad scope by any means, but its dated and given the recent price increase, has fell out of its market nitch. I would go Bushnell all day given those two options...
In the reliability department, I have had 8 Elite Tactical scopes over the years dating back to the original DMR series. I have never had one issue through dozens of matches and thousands of rounds. I continue to run them because I trust them and consider them to be some of the more reliable scopes you can get. That's just my personal experience with them, but nor do I know anyone personally who has had issues either.
So far, I've never had to send back a Bushnell elite for any reason in the past 5 years....XRS 2's and now the new XRS3. In the past two years, I've sent back one Gen 2 razor for a canting reticle as you zoom in/out (loose gimbal screw). And a Vortex Razor Light Hunter 2-10x40mm for a Cracked Objective lense.
Despite all that (I'm taking my chances on two new Vortex Razor Gen 3 6-36 models). Why, because I know they will take care of any issues I may have down the road within two weeks time frame, no matter the reason. They have one incredible warranty (and the Razor Line of scopes is pretty reliable)
I hear Leupold is the most reliable at tracking and robustness............they also seem to survive the drop test more consistently
In the reliability department, I have had 8 Elite Tactical scopes over the years dating back to the original DMR series. I have never had one issue through dozens of matches and thousands of rounds. I continue to run them because I trust them and consider them to be some of the more reliable scopes you can get. That's just my personal experience with them, but nor do I know anyone personally who has had issues either.
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Agree.
I had several XRS2.........
Several Razors Gen 2.............
4 rifles, same day, same conditions (multiple days)..........................Sage Brush, Rim Rocks, 45deg mornings up to 80degree mirage filled afternoons.
600 yards to 1400 yards.
The Bushnell XRS2 was better in all regards except field of view------- UP to 25 power.........I didn't like the XRS2 on 30x or above 25x really.
Ran them on 22x most times and they were beautiful.
Particularly past 800 yards, the glass in the XRS2 shined compared to the razors.
I sold my XRS2's before I got any XRS3's.
However, the XRS3 is clearly "better" than anything I've tested sub $2,000. I've seen nearly all of them side/side on a tripod.
FINALLY my Cameraland Special Burris XTR 3 is arriving Today.(5.5-30 SCR Mil)
It's a raining shithole day, so I may not have any thoughts until tomorrow.
The Burris is one of the only scopes I have not compared
Most guys don't know how to setup a fuggin diopter also....................
That makes the most difference in people "thoughts" while peering through their buddies scope.
The Bushnell scopes really need "tuned" in the diopter before anyone can realistically judge the optical quality.
My dad has to turn at least 90 degree rotation, sometimes 180 from where I set my diopters.
I am an optics NERD..........
IT absolutely makes a difference, even moving the diopter ring 1/4" one direction can and does have an effect on your individual perception of optical quality.
Most guys that have been to an eye doctor get it.
Most purchasers of scopes don't have a clue.
That makes the most difference in people "thoughts" while peering through their buddies scope.
The Bushnell scopes really need "tuned" in the diopter before anyone can realistically judge the optical quality.
My dad has to turn at least 90 degree rotation, sometimes 180 from where I set my diopters.
I am an optics NERD..........
IT absolutely makes a difference, even moving the diopter ring 1/4" one direction can and does have an effect on your individual perception of optical quality.
Most guys that have been to an eye doctor get it.
Most purchasers of scopes don't have a clue.
I love the reticle in the bushnell xrs3. At first it was very weird and had to get use to it. Now I'm not a prs shooter or anything like that I shoot steel out to 1 mile and rocks to 2k so I love the simple reticle and openess for what I use it for. I dial elevation and wind
