Cake and eat it too??? Hunting and Tactical rifle all in one, sorta!

[hwgunner]

So my brother is in the middle of building a couple rifles and spending a truck load of money, and I keep asking myself why? Can you build a high end tactical rifle and sweet light weight hunting rifle all with just the change of a stock?? Here is what I was thinking, and please note that I almost never do things the way they should be done, mostly because I enjoy the journey as much as the 800 yard gong.
I have a proof research 7mm/08 bull barrel right now (1.2 inches stem to stern and 22 inches overall) and am ordering a stiller action in the next week. The scope is yet to be determined but will need to be high power because I feel like I am getting old. I love the look of the aics ax stock and I am looking at a carbon fiber hunting stock from a member here (Russia, I've been there so it seems even more cool to me). Am I fooling myself thinking I can go between stocks and get a great gun for 5/8 the truck load my brother spent? Let me know what you think and any ideas would be appreciated, especially on the cool scope choices. Thanks in advance. Hwgunner jonathan

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[CapDog]

I'm pretty much doing the same thing. Mine won't be as light but light enough. 700 action that will bounce between an XLR stock for matches and a Rem LTR stock for hunting. 22" PROOF barrel chambered in .260 rem

 

[rrflyer]

Why would you need to switch stocks?

 

[hwgunner]

I was thinking weight in the long run. Won't want to be humping that aics stock around for 3 or 4 days in the bush.

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[Vargmat]

I have a feeling that after you have mounted the barreled action to the different stocks a few times you will get tired of it and just leave it in the stock you prefer the most.

Having had an AICS AX I can tell you that it is somewhat of a PITA to remove the action from it. The handguard alone is bolted with 10 bolts that sits underneath the plastic front grip that is secured by another 2 bolts.
This seems to have been changed on the new generation of the chassis, but still, it is something to keep in mind.

And since there is a handguard on the AICS AX you need taller scope rings to clear it. And when you change to the "regular" looking stock it might look a bit weird.

I have no idea how well 7mm-08 rounds feed from AICS magazines. (would that be from .300 winmag mags?)

 

[hwgunner]

Thanks for the info on the aics stock. I did not think about the fact that I would need an electric screwdriver to get in and out of it. On the scope height I was planning on an adjustable cheek on the hunting rifle too but your comment about the scope looking funny hit home. I have always thought the scope should be as close to the barrel center line as possible and made many a wise crack about a scope that is sitting way too high. As for the 7mm08 amo, it is a necked down 308 so I do not anticipate that being a problem. On the other hand I cleaned my desk at work today and my computer took a dump shortly there after so you never know.

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[tacshooter223]

The only dilemma I see is the barrel contour. For a hunting rifle--you mentioned 3-4 days trips--a pencil barrel seems like a must. I wouldn't want to be shooting any tactical matches with a barrel that thin, especially if they require a decent amount of shots during the course of fire.

So as far as I see it, you will probably have to have a compromise between a light barrel and a heavier countour-ed barrel.

Some cakes just aren't meant to be had and eaten..

 

[BurnOut]

Something that may be worth noting is that Pierce makes a titanium action that could shave a bit of weight for you. It's one of the things that I have found as I consider what components I am going to use for my own build with a very similar goal.

While I fully understand the role that weight plays in the reduction of recoil, I am leaning towards relying on a brake/can plus a good recoil pad for making shooting tolerable... at least that's the plan for now. Plans are subject to change with budget considerations, new products, and additional knowledge.

 

[Ledzep]

Yes, you can.

700 SA, Rem Varmint Bartlein in .260, 22" long (Could do a #4 profile, too and maybe save some weight), Manners MCS-T (though you could do one of their newer lightweight hunting stocks), EGW base, PTG dbm, Leupold Mk6 scope. Drop the Bipod from the picture above and you're looking at about 12lbs. Not the handiest lightest thing, but it's still a tack driver, and still very manageable.

Even easier way to do it is calibers that aren't very dependent on long barrels that you can cut short 16-20".

 

[Hawk45]

Why would you ever want just one rifle?
Give me a reason to buy another please.

 

[BurnOut]

Why would you ever want just one rifle?
Give me a reason to buy another please.

$$? Also, I have limited room in my safe? ;-)

I need another safe. Dammit.

 

[OpticsPlanet]

Yes, you can.

700 SA, Rem Varmint Bartlein in .260, 22" long (Could do a #4 profile, too and maybe save some weight), Manners MCS-T (though you could do one of their newer lightweight hunting stocks), EGW base, PTG dbm, Leupold Mk6 scope. Drop the Bipod from the picture above and you're looking at about 12lbs. Not the handiest lightest thing, but it's still a tack driver, and still very manageable.

Even easier way to do it is calibers that aren't very dependent on long barrels that you can cut short 16-20".

Nice looking setup. MK 6 is the way I'm going to save weight/space as well.

Trevor B.

 

[RobertB]

I feel my PSS sendero COntour 6.5s in 20" and 24" are just that. Not super long range hunting rifles but great rigs none the less. I feel good hunting deer out to 600 with a steady position with my fluted 20" bartlien Gain twist GAP rifle. It sits in non adjustable Manners T5 with a NF 2.5-10x42 and its heavy enough to be real steady but light enough to tote around. It is super accurate and very manageable.

I also have a custom 7STW with a Shilen thin profile stock in a HS stock that is very accurate but wouldn't make a good match gun too.

I also have a McM A5 surgeon with a PSS sendero 24" Bartlein GAP build that has a reel good hunting/match feel too.

 

[Vargmat]

Thanks for the info on the aics stock. I did not think about the fact that I would need an electric screwdriver to get in and out of it. On the scope height I was planning on an adjustable cheek on the hunting rifle too but your comment about the scope looking funny hit home. I have always thought the scope should be as close to the barrel center line as possible and made many a wise crack about a scope that is sitting way too high. As for the 7mm08 amo, it is a necked down 308 so I do not anticipate that being a problem. On the other hand I cleaned my desk at work today and my computer took a dump shortly there after so you never know.

Obviously I was not familiar with the 7mm08 cartridge, and even if info about it was only a google search away. I did not google it until after I posted the last reply. Naturally they should work just fine in .308 AICS magazines.

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No worries! Yes, there is lots and lots of bolts in an AICS AX chassis, and while you dont need to remove everyone of them everytime. There sure are alot of them to remove to be able to make the switch between stocks.

As for the scope height you dont really need super high rings, but you will need to have some extra room to clear the handguard, as previously written.
As it is I am running a bit higher rings than I really need to on my new Tikka (I pretty much kept the height from my AICS AX setup), some people I shoot with claim that it could help with giving me less visible mirage from the suppressor, but I doubt it. Maybe I would be one of the guys that would be on the receiving end of your wise cracks...
The point is that it might not look too crazy, but it will definitely not be as dialed as it could be. (I will keep my rings, as they are probably perfect for a scope with a 56mm objective, and I plan to upgrade).

 

[shaggyaggie01]

$$? Also, I have limited room in my safe? ;-)

I need another safe. Dammit.

I lean towards more guns and more safes. but YMMV.

 

[knockemdown]

Yes, you can.

700 SA, Rem Varmint Bartlein in .260, 22" long (Could do a #4 profile, too and maybe save some weight), Manners MCS-T (though you could do one of their newer lightweight hunting stocks), EGW base, PTG dbm, Leupold Mk6 scope. Drop the Bipod from the picture above and you're looking at about 12lbs. Not the handiest lightest thing, but it's still a tack driver, and still very manageable.

Even easier way to do it is calibers that aren't very dependent on long barrels that you can cut short 16-20".

Very nice!
This is my 6.5 GAP 4s answer to the "cake & all" dilemma

Rem700SA with Kampfeld fluted bolt, PT&G mini knob & fluted Bartlein #4 @ 24", w/Vias MicroBrake
Rifle Basix trigger
Seekins 20moa base & low rings holding a Premier Lite Tac 3-15x50 Gen II Mildot
Micky A3 w/Surgeon DBM & stock pack

Loaded, weighs 10# 10oz...very tolerable

However, if I ever do a 'lightweight' backcountry hunt and want to shave weight, I have an B&C AWR stock already bedded for this barreled action, fitted with a Wyatts box to feed long SAUM rounds. Swapping the A3 stock and the Seekins stuff into Talley one pc. rings will save ~2lbs over how it sits now. But for the time being, its staying as is...

Good luck in your quest!

 

[Blushin]

would suggest looking at the manners stock in the elite tactical fill. they save over a lb on a most of their normal fills which will lighten up the whole package for hiking around but you can still get a detachable mag system and any type stock you may want

 

[bone collector]

Tactical Rifles are what I use any more, I seem to shoot a heaver rifle better than a light rifle.

 

[Prebanpaul]

Best advice I have heard on here, is three fold

1. Go do some cardio, it will help with the weight.
2. Go do some lifting and get stronger, A light weight gun 6lbs vs 12 lbs is just that 6 lbs
3. If you do not feel like doing any of the above, lower the weight on your back pack.

 

[krummarine]

Very nice!
This is my 6.5 GAP 4s answer to the "cake & all" dilemma

Rem700SA with Kampfeld fluted bolt, PT&G mini knob & fluted Bartlein #4 @ 24", w/Vias MicroBrake
Rifle Basix trigger
Seekins 20moa base & low rings holding a Premier Lite Tac 3-15x50 Gen II Mildot
Micky A3 w/Surgeon DBM & stock pack

Loaded, weighs 10# 10oz...very tolerable

However, if I ever do a 'lightweight' backcountry hunt and want to shave weight, I have an B&C AWR stock already bedded for this barreled action, fitted with a Wyatts box to feed long SAUM rounds. Swapping the A3 stock and the Seekins stuff into Talley one pc. rings will save ~2lbs over how it sits now. But for the time being, its staying as is...

Good luck in your quest!

who makes that stock pack?

 

[ptaylortx]

I had this little 308 built for a light weight maneuverable hunting rifle, but it turned out to shoot just as good if not better than my other custom precision rifles. Weighs in at a total 7 lb 12 oz. 20" Hart with a Sendero contour .750" @the muzzle.
Consistent sub 3/8 moa

 

[knockemdown]

who makes that stock pack?

its the Triad Modular stock pack, with mag holder accessory strip velcro'ed on the side.
Here's a better pic, from Triad's website

 

[santee116]

I've been working on a similar type project. I also seem to shoot a heavier rifle better (10-12 lbs), but I don't like an overweight one either (14+ lbs). My uses are probably 75% hunting and 25% range work.

As it sits now:

Rem 700 .243
Factory 26" RV contour
NXS 3-15x56, Badger Rings
Manners EH4 mini chassis
Timney 510U

Comes in at 11.4 lbs (without the bi-pod)

Once the factory barrel is toast, it will become .260 with a 22" fluted barrel and that should bring the weight to around 10.5 lbs.

I could easily drop some weight with a different scope and rings, that NXS is bulletproof but is very heavy, as are the badger rings.

When I throw my Zeiss 6-24x56 with the Nightforce ultra-lite rings on there it weighs in at 10.8 lbs as it sits.

 

[krummarine]

its the Triad Modular stock pack, with mag holder accessory strip velcro'ed on the side.
Here's a better pic, from Triad's website

Thanks!

 

[nso123]

I am not able to have a monogamous relationship with my rifles. The closest I am thinking of getting to a combination rifle would be a 20 inch heavy barreled build for hunting. I will shed weight from my other gear if I need more weight reduction.

 

[bmt]

This rifle:

Savage 16 action.

20' #3 barrel (it goes to Bartlein again in August (almost shot out).

McMillan Classic stock (in retrospect, I should have gone with an HTG).

CDI AI AW mag box.

It wears a Nightfrorce 2.5-10 as of yesterday.

This phote has a Leupold 3.5-10x40.

9 pounds

I have made hits to 1100 yards.

BMT

 

[Grand]

BMT, I Love the color of that pig.

 

[hiddenmongoose]

Tactical Rifles are what I use any more, I seem to shoot a heaver rifle better than a light rifle.

Now that is a beautiful rifle.

I also end up just lugging a pig around the hills.Friends say Im mad but I love the heavy rifles and tell them to man the fuck up.

 

[alpine44]

How about someone making a very light stock with a fatter forearm that allows the insertion of a lead rod from the front?

For any given caliber/load, more rifle weight not only reduces the influence of how the gun is supported/shot but it also increases the chance to see the impact of the first shot. To get these distinct advantages for gun games on a range just increase the weight with the lead rod. For multi-day hunting, take the lead out.

Humping shoulder-fired artillery pieces during a hunt is as annoying as shooting light hunting guns on the range for hours and against the "artillery-piece" crowd.

 

[LRJammer]

Hunting & tactical are the only way I roll now. Below is my FN PBR XP action rebarreld by GAP to 260 Rem. with a fluted medium Palma barrel at 22" long. Whole rifle comes in under 10.5 lbs and is an absolute nail driver. It is very easy to carry and shoot because it balances perfectly. Never let anybody tell you that a 26" barrel is required with a 260. It just aint so.

 

[bmt]

BMT, I Love the color of that pig.

Thanks.

I posted a story of the hunt here:

Trophy Hog --Blondie, the Wild Boar - 24hourcampfire

Another photo the rifle is there also.

BMT

 

[JB02]

I'm going to be that guy who goes against the grain of this thread here. I think the "all in one" concept of a hunter/tactical rig, while intriguing and somewhat seductive, ultimately results in a rifle that can get the job done in most application but will never best the competition. In other words, it's a "jack of all trades but a master of none" or like "having a golf bag with just a 5 iron". I've been down this road and ultimately been unsatisfied with the result.

If all you want is one rifle to master, and you are fine with humping a 12lb+ tactical beast through the woods and up the hill, awesome; go for it. I'm not going to do that when the Rem 721 270 win I inherited from my granddad with a 10x scope will get the job done just fine with only half the weight to lug around. For most hunting (i.e., not a hog hunt), one well placed shot is all you need. For a tactical rig, I prefer something solid, with at least 24" of barrel length to squeeze out the most velocity of my rifle's high performance chambering, a heavy contour barrel to minimize POI shift for heavy courses of fire, a meaty stock fine tuned to suit my physique, and a heavy duty optic. I'm not arguing that the hunter tactical can't get the job done, but (I'll state the obvious) I just don't think it can get the job done as well head to head against another optimized for a specific task.

 

[scotharr]

I'm going to be that guy who goes against the grain of this thread here. I think the "all in one" concept of a hunter/tactical rig, while intriguing and somewhat seductive, ultimately results in a rifle that can get the job done in most application but will never best the competition. In other words, it's a "jack of all trades but a master of none" or like "having a golf bag with just a 5 iron". I've been down this road and ultimately been unsatisfied with the result.

If all you want is one rifle to master, and you are fine with humping a 12lb+ tactical beast through the woods and up the hill, awesome; go for it. I'm not going to do that when the Rem 721 270 win I inherited from my granddad with a 10x scope will get the job done just fine with only half the weight to lug around. For most hunting (i.e., not a hog hunt), one well placed shot is all you need. For a tactical rig, I prefer something solid, with at least 24" of barrel length to squeeze out the most velocity of my rifle's high performance chambering, a heavy contour barrel to minimize POI shift for heavy courses of fire, a meaty stock fine tuned to suit my physique, and a heavy duty optic. I'm not arguing that the hunter tactical can't get the job done, but (I'll state the obvious) I just don't think it can get the job done as well head to head against another optimized for a specific task.

Focusing on the OP's stated goal: save money and have a multipurpose rifle. Here's what I do.
1. One action, trigger, & scope shared across purposes. These are the most expensive components and if you only buy them once, you save a lot of money.
2. Sporter barrel & tactical barrel. Let's face it, you don't need a Krieger barrel for hunting. Buy a remington take-off or less expensive blank. Then get yourself a high-end barrel for your tack-driving tactical rifle.
3. Hunting stock & tactical stock. Once again, there are a million great hunting stocks available on the cheap that work great. Bell & Carlson medalists Alaskan II would be a great example. For a tactical stock, spend some money and have fun.

In short, you save a lot of money and still optimize your rifle by relying on economical hunting barrels and stocks while just buying a single action, trigger, & scope.

 

[bmt]

The GAP version of a multi-purpse rifle.

Rock

 

[JB02]

The rock is a great gun, no doubt! Still, I think the Hospitalier is a better tactical setup and the Non-Typical (or a Sako 85) is a better hunter setup. The rock is a compromise of both ends of the spectrum. If I had all three, the rock would probably linger in the safe most of the time, or it would be the one I would loan to a friend on a range outing.
[MENTION=4319]scotharr[/MENTION], totally agree with your concept, but what a PITA that would be! Why have just one rifle when you can have two? I would rather buy an awesome tactical rig and then a $600 Tikka T3 for hunting and call it a day.

 

[AEROMechanic]

Tactical Rifles are what I use any more, I seem to shoot a heaver rifle better than a light rifle.

Nice rig, what's the barrel length and weight?

 

[rancilio]

Paint that scope and you might have more luck sneaking up on critters. Just kidding, nice kill.

Tactical Rifles are what I use any more, I seem to shoot a heaver rifle better than a light rifle.

 

[bone collector]

Now that is a beautiful rifle.

I also end up just lugging a pig around the hills.Friends say Im mad but I love the heavy rifles and tell them to man the fuck up

Thanks, nice stag. I definitely hunt differently with a heavy rifle but my success is better but its a little more painful, Lol.

Nice rig, what's the barrel length and weight?

Thanks, it is a GAP built rifle in 7 wsm, 180gr VLD out of a 25" Bartein mtu barrel in a manners stock. It is a 16lb rifle and served me well. I have since changed my barrel contours on my rifles to med. Palma and shooting the 6.5 saum, 260 and 6CM these days. but my lightest rifle I think is still over 13lb+. The 7wsm is a hammer, that was a 635 yd shot and the exit hole in the chest was the size of my fist.

Paint that scope and you might have more luck sneaking up on critters. Just kidding, nice kill.

Thanks.

 

[Painless300]

I'm going to be that guy who goes against the grain of this thread here. I think the "all in one" concept of a hunter/tactical rig, while intriguing and somewhat seductive, ultimately results in a rifle that can get the job done in most application but will never best the competition. In other words, it's a "jack of all trades but a master of none" or like "having a golf bag with just a 5 iron". I've been down this road and ultimately been unsatisfied with the result.

If all you want is one rifle to master, and you are fine with humping a 12lb+ tactical beast through the woods and up the hill, awesome; go for it. I'm not going to do that when the Rem 721 270 win I inherited from my granddad with a 10x scope will get the job done just fine with only half the weight to lug around. For most hunting (i.e., not a hog hunt), one well placed shot is all you need. For a tactical rig, I prefer something solid, with at least 24" of barrel length to squeeze out the most velocity of my rifle's high performance chambering, a heavy contour barrel to minimize POI shift for heavy courses of fire, a meaty stock fine tuned to suit my physique, and a heavy duty optic. I'm not arguing that the hunter tactical can't get the job done, but (I'll state the obvious) I just don't think it can get the job done as well head to head against another optimized for a specific task.

I agree with LCDR JGB, I tried the hybrid route and spent $4k on a Surgeon, #5 contour Fluted Krieger and McMillan A2 stock and it came in at 13lbs with scope. This rifle was a laser but the barrel would heat up pretty quick at the range and would start walking on me. I really wanted it to work for my go to hunting rifle but it just was to heavy for off hand shoots even in a deer stand. I learned a very expensive lesson! So I just spent another $5,500 on this Gradous rifle build to be my hunting rig it comes in at 9.25Lbs with scope and sling.

Do whatever you think is good for you, I just Hunt way more than I shoot at the range.


Stiller Predator action, #3 Bartlein, McMillian edge, Z6

 

[ejg]

Put this rifle together as my longer range hunting rig. Bartlein med Palma chopped at 20" PSE E-Tac, rem SA. Without scope and suppressor 7.7lb.
I can have a second cheek raiser that weighs ~1.3lbs for the range to increase weight, the hunting cheek raiser weighs 2.7oz, (hand laid carbon).

edi

 

[hwgunner]

Well I think I went left when I should have headed south. Here is what I have so far. A Stiller Tac30 with 308 bolt face, proof research 7mm blank 22 inch long 1.2 inch diameter straight no taper barrel (7mm08 I think) and an aics 2.0. I also have a Bartlein 6x47 26 inch MTV contour sort a on the way and a used McM A5 with Seekins early DBM. Looking for a Timney 517 and for now the scope will be a friends VA II 6X18X40. Need to recuperate a little before spending $500 to $2000 on a scope.

Conclusion so far? I get distracted by shinny things and end up off track very easily. I will try harder on the next one. Oh, and I already bought another safe.



And for fun my gunsmith took this


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[sinister]

Snipers are hunters.

What sniper rifles looked like before they became as heavy as jeep trailer axles:

An overhauled Vietnam-era USAF M40 in an H-S with H-S ten-shot mag (now a USAMU pool rifle for issue at the All-Army Championships):