Calculating lethality of .308 and 5.56 distance?

alfred10

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Minuteman
Jan 16, 2010
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I did some research and came up with alot of opinions. Does anyone know a solid way to determine the max effective lethal range of the following rounds on a human target? It doesnt make sense to me that you can hit something but it might not be lethal at long range? Does barrel length matter for this? I was wondering about this and would like info for the following weapons. Obviously the .308 has more but I have no idea how much more.

Max range of
5.56 in M4:
5.56 in M16:
7.62X39 in Ak 47:
.308 in FAL:
.308 in M1A:
5.56 in 16 inch sig 5.56:
 
Re: Calculating lethality of .308 and 5.56 distance?

Terminal ballistics is a complex subject. Bullet construction has a great deal to do with it. Yes barrel length has something to do with it especially in 5.56. IMO the 5.56 is capable of accuracy at ranges that are not practical for stopping power. In other words it's accuracy lets it write checks its terminal ballistics can't cash.

The best source I have seen is called ammo oracle and it is available through one of the AR15 sites. Maybe someone more familiar with it can post a link.
 
Re: Calculating lethality of .308 and 5.56 distance?

Shot placement.... There have been folks killed at 800m with a 5.56mm round, and folks shot through the heart with a .30-06 round who survived. No round is perfect,even with perfect placement(not counting the CNS). There are so many variables that go into teminal ballistics, that one would be foolish to assume he had the perfect gun that would always net a one-shot stop. The only solution is to ensure that every time, no matter what, the target's CNS is destroyed. The attainable alternative to this impossible scenario is, once you start shooting, you don't stop until the target is down and neutralized. Never assume that a target will be incapacitated by your first round- or your third. Shoot until their lights go out.

Look at it like this. Would you shoot a charging bear once, and wait to see if he fell? Yet a human assailant with the will and means to take your life is an exponentially greater, if somewhat thinner-skinned, threat to your continued existence on this rock. If you ever have to shoot at another human being(and you should be praying that you don't), no matter what gun you have, the round will not be big or powerful enough to suit you at that time. Pick a system, get a lot of ammo, and go practice- a lot. Take some professional training, get to where your chosen weapon is like an extension of yourself. The gun will do if you will. Nobody ever said, "Fear the man with a safe full of cool guns". The saying goes, "Fear the man with one gun, for he likely knows how to use it".
 
Re: Calculating lethality of .308 and 5.56 distance?

P.O Ackley did a writeup on killing power once, it was based on data gathered on shooting ferrel donkeys. Go read it, I will not go into what it said because it starts fights, but it's a good read.
 
Re: Calculating lethality of .308 and 5.56 distance?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskaman 11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P.O Ackley did a writeup on killing power once, it was based on data gathered on shooting ferrel donkeys. Go read it, I will not go into what it said because it starts fights, but it's a good read. </div></div>

Where can I find this article?
 
Re: Calculating lethality of .308 and 5.56 distance?

Bodies do strange things when hit with bullets.

Since we don't fight battles in the lab a lot of variables come into play OUTSIDE of variations in the target's physiology.

The key thing to remember is if you want a target dead RIGHT NOW, you have to place the shot where it disrupts the central nervous system. It doesn't matter if it's a .223, .308 or .338LM. If you put the projectile through the cranial vault then it's a fight stopper.

The higher the retained energy of the projectile, the higher the probability of it penetrating the cranial vault.

Shots through the heart and lung area are not guaranteed stoppers no matter what the range/weapon used. The body can absorb an incredible amount of damage there and continue the fight until the brain runs out of oxygenated blood.
 
Re: Calculating lethality of .308 and 5.56 distance?

Shot placement. If the bullet has the energy to penetrate to a lethal depth then your in business. I would base the lethal range of a weapon system buy the individuates ability to place an accurate shot. Is 5.56 lethal at 800m? Yes, and if you don't think so then go out there and catch. However if your shooting MK262 mod1 out of an 18" barrel and your range/wind estimation is off by a small margin it will be a miss. By shooting weapon systems with bigger and faster projectiles we can negate some slop in our estimation.
 
Re: Calculating lethality of .308 and 5.56 distance?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">big point and it has been touched on is shot placment.

The "rule of thumb" I have been told beyond that is try to stay around 1000 ft/lb of energy. </div></div>

1k ft/lb energy wont buy you alot of distance with a 5.56. guess that's why it's just a rule of thumb.
 
Re: Calculating lethality of .308 and 5.56 distance?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">big point and it has been touched on is shot placment.

The "rule of thumb" I have been told beyond that is try to stay around 1000 ft/lb of energy. </div></div>

1k ft/lb energy wont buy you alot of distance with a 5.56. guess that's why it's just a rule of thumb. </div></div>

was based on larger game animals.
 
Re: Calculating lethality of .308 and 5.56 distance?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">big point and it has been touched on is shot placment.

The "rule of thumb" I have been told beyond that is try to stay around 1000 ft/lb of energy. </div></div>

1k ft/lb energy wont buy you alot of distance with a 5.56. guess that's why it's just a rule of thumb. </div></div>

was based on larger game animals. </div></div>

10-4, I hate "rules of thumb" I've killed plenty of deer cleanly with my .223 actually only had one run more than 30-40yds after being shot most fell within 10yds or less. Shot placement is KEY, put me within 200yds of an elk or moose and I promise you I can bring it down in one clean shot. BUT, that being said I am fortunate enough to get to shoot my rifle 3-4 days a week. I'm not so sure there's a hard and fast rule for what caliber for what quarry. I think it's more a fact that shooters need to know what they are capable of on the first shot at a given distance. YMMV
 
Re: Calculating lethality of .308 and 5.56 distance?

SO much depends on your set-up and what you're shooting. A good example would be Nosler bullets, which have a minimum velocity to perform as designed. You can generally use this as a good max range. You need a ballistics program, muzzle velocity of your loading and the specs of the bullet. You can then find at what point it drops below, lets say 1600fps. So you have the potential of a large variance in distance at which the manufacture says the bullet will perform. A very light, horribly low BC bullet might drop below velocity requirements for that round at 370 yards, while a medium, high BC bullet might drop below it's point at 480 yards. All from the same gun and same caliber. You really can't have a set max range without setting standards for every other factor.

As far as the AK goes- it's generally accepted that it's a 300m and less weapon. Some have greater potential for consistent hits and man size targets beyond that, but usually that's about the limit.

M14 I believe was stated to have a max eff range of about 650-700meters with 147gr ball.

M110 is 1000m w/M118LR

M4/M16A2 are 500 and 550m respectively with M855.

Not sure how any of the above relates to your question though. The military's stated max eff range is not indicative of a first round, center-mass kill, more like a potential for repeated hits which will take someone out of the fight. I think military's application of max range is about the best you could ever hope to come up with "a reasonably skilled shooter should be able to hit a target at this range after firing several rounds and that will remove someone from the fight". Anything else to give a blanket statement of a chambering's specific max range would be unrealistic. Take for example the range difference between the M14 and M110- both gas semi-auto's... different ammunition and different rifle change max range due to the accuracy potential of the rifle and the range capabilities of the different ammunition. All in the same caliber. An even better example of small changes would be the M4/M16A2- a difference of 5.5" in barrel drops max range 50 meters- that being the ONLY change which would related to effective range.

See why that's not really a question that can be answered?
 
Re: Calculating lethality of .308 and 5.56 distance?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWRC556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does barrel length matter for this?</div></div>

It ain't barrel length, baby, it's the barrel's width. Just ask Shankster and Maser, they'll tell you!