Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

[TARFU]

As I have previously posted, I have a R700 LA I want to build into a precision rig, mostly for range work but also an occasional deer hunt. I do reload. I had asked the members to help me decide between 6.5X55 and 30.06 and received alot of good feedback but also preferences for several other LA calibers. One was 280 Rem.

I researched this caliber and found that I do not need to modify my .06 bolt, I can use my .06 brass, the round is very accurate with an assortment of bullets and powders, and the Ackley Improved gives a little better velocity at less pressure. Any thoughts on this round? Is it worth it to go AI? Thank you.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

Owned both. Get a 7mmRemMag instead.



If it must be a 280 so you dont need to do bolt work, dont Ackley it. your increasing case volume, and will need a hotter load to get the same velocity. Sure, you can add 4 more grains and get 25 more fps.... kool.

Not worth it IMO. I'll never own one again

 

[cockcroft]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

Here is my 280AI built on a Rem 700LA. I am in the process of building a 280AI bench rifle on a Borden Timberline action.
Most folks don't recomend forming cases that have been fired, brass may be work hardened and brittle. I use Nosler 280AI brass and have been very happy. Both my barrels are 9 twist and stabilize the Berger 180's.
My Rem rifle has a 310 neck so I neck turn the brass for it.
Probably use the same reamer for the new rifle.
I believe you would be happy with the cartridge. No real negatives about it in my opinion.
The Berger 168 and 180VLD's and the Sierra 175SMK shoot really well

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

I guess if you buy pre formed brass....
I formed my own, which is what I hated about it.

Make sure it's twisted to shoot the bullets you want to shoot.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

280and 280ai are great cartridges, also think about a straight 284. it is a shorter fatter case that technically is a short action cartridge but it works great with heavy 7mm bullets seated way out their, that way you wont have any issues with seating depths plus you can use the dies to just size up 6.5x284 lapua brass.

just a thought.

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

280 AI + 10000000000000!!!!!!!!

Nosler Ackley Brass
180 Berger Vlds
CCI BRII primers
56.5 grains of RL22

5 shot groups .25 at 100 easily.

GAP/ Moon built!! Could not be happier. I am getting 2860 fps with the 180s out of a 26inch barrel.

Way less powder than a 7mm mag, no belt to deal with, and close to the same velocity.

WIN WIN. No feeding issues at all. Go 280 AI or straight 284 and dont look back.

 

[TARFU]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

Those are both some nice looking rifles, thanks. How is the recoil with 168-180 gr. bullets? Ever shoot the 130-150 gr. bullets?

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

Recoil is not bad. That being said I will have a little batard break installed on the next barrel to help see impacts. I have only shot the 180s. They were way to accurate to try anything else.

 

[TARFU]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Recoil is not bad. That being said I will have a little batard break installed on the next barrel to help see impacts. I have only shot the 180s. They were way to accurate to try anything else. </div></div>

1:9?

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

Shilen Select Match 1/8.

A 1/9 will work fine. Shilen reccomended a 1/8 for their barrel so that is what I went with. I would always go with the barrel makers suggestion.

 

[vmts4me]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">280 AI + 10000000000000!!!!!!!!

Nosler Ackley Brass
180 Berger Vlds
CCI BRII primers
56.5 grains of RL22

5 shot groups .25 at 100 easily.

GAP/ Moon built!! Could not be happier. I am getting 2860 fps with the 180s out of a 26inch barrel.

Way less powder than a 7mm mag, no belt to deal with, and close to the same velocity.

WIN WIN. No feeding issues at all. Go 280 AI or straight 284 and dont look back.

</div></div>

.257, I was enjoying my saturday, content with what I have going on at the smith's currently, until I saw that rig. SHIT! If only I could sell my 6-284.

 

[nutzo396]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

.257, Why go 280AI when you can fit 56.5 grains of RL22 in a standard 280 case? I am in the process of my first build and found that I can fit up to 59 grains of RL22 in a 280 case before it was a compressed load using the 180's, and this is at a length that will still fit in the box magazine.So what is going to be the advantage of the AI if you're not trying to get 3000FPS out of the 180. I'm not writing this to bust your balls, I would just like to know since I havn't sent my barrel( SS 8.5 twist Krieger MTU coming this week!) to get chambered yet and if there <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> an advantage, I still have time to change my mind.

 

[TARFU]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

Stiggy has a great question. My situation is that i have very little time to shoot. It seems like I spend more time f#*ing with my guns than shooting them. I would like to stay away from fire-forming, neck turning, etc., if it only means some minute improvement in accuracy or performance, that would only be appreciated by a high level marksman. I want accurate and simple, but it doesn't have to be the "ultimate". So, is the AI worth it for someone like me?

 

[steve123]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TARFU</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stiggy has a great question. My situation is that i have very little time to shoot. It seems like I spend more time f#*ing with my guns than shooting them. I would like to stay away from fire-forming, neck turning, etc., if it only means some minute improvement in accuracy or performance, that would only be appreciated by a high level marksman. I want accurate and simple, but it doesn't have to be the "ultimate". So, is the AI worth it for someone like me? </div></div>

I'm a wildcatter myself but for your purposes the answer would be NO.

8.5 twist might be best for the velocities a 280 with a medium length barrel will produce,if you plan on shooting 180's.Better safe than sorry.

I've found Tubb contour barrels to be a good compromise of weight and stiffness.It's an acceptable all around weight for most purposes.

Steve

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stiggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.257, Why go 280AI when you can fit 56.5 grains of RL22 in a standard 280 case? I am in the process of my first build and found that I can fit up to 59 grains of RL22 in a 280 case before it was a compressed load using the 180's, and this is at a length that will still fit in the box magazine.So what is going to be the advantage of the AI if you're not trying to get 3000FPS out of the 180. I'm not writing this to bust your balls, I would just like to know since I havn't sent my barrel( SS 8.5 twist Krieger MTU coming this week!) to get chambered yet and if there <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> an advantage, I still have time to change my mind. </div></div>

First, 56.5 grains is the max load stated in Nosler Reloading book
Second, I live in Florida at sea level where the temps can be above 100
Third, with .25 Moa at 100 why try to increase the velocity????

Also you may be able to hit 3000. But don't be sad if you don't.

Heck MOST guys running 7wsm or 7/300 wsm are only running around 2950 with over 62 grains of powder

All that being said I have never put more than 56.5 grains in the case. If it shot poorly then I may have tried more.

I will give up velocity any day for accuracy!!!!

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TARFU</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stiggy has a great question. My situation is that i have very little time to shoot. It seems like I spend more time f#*ing with my guns than shooting them. I would like to stay away from fire-forming, neck turning, etc., if it only means some minute improvement in accuracy or performance, that would only be appreciated by a high level marksman. I want accurate and simple, but it doesn't have to be the "ultimate". So, is the AI worth it for someone like me? </div></div>

First, you don't have to fireform a 280 AI

Sounds to me like you need a 308 Win

Accurate, easy to find ammo, easy to load for

 

[TARFU]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

.257, already have a .308. I guess i could buy 280 AI brass. But, I have of load of 30.06 laying around. I've read conflicting reports of accuracy improvement in the AI. I saw an increase of 75 fps velocity and reports that case life is longer as it doesn't stretch as much. Is this consistent with your experience?

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

Case life is good. Trimming cases is rare.

I am a Ackley fan, Most are not.

I have owned or still own
280 AI
7/08 AI
22/250 AI

I do not like fireforming.

But this is what I do.

I buy enough brass to last the life of the barrel when the rifle is built. I take my time and find a accurate load for the standard case. If it takes me more than a year to fireform my bras, oh well.

If you prep the new cases right. The rifle will be accurate with the standard cases. The Ai just gives you a little more speed and the 40 degree shoulder LOOKS COOL!!!!

I like stuff a little diffrent than most. That makes the Ackley unique.

I will always own a 280 AI!!!! It just does the job. I personally like the short mags but you kinda need a long action to make them work right(unless Seekins will start puting some mags out their). I HATE long action DBM. (Unless it's HS precision DBM) All others are to big and bulky!!! That is why the 30/06 parent case works so well. 4 down and 1 in...

 

[nutzo396]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

I wasn't trying to say that I wanted to get 3000FPS. I'd actually like to stay around 2800 or so. I'll have to see where load development takes me when I get there. I like the idea of the 280AI for the coolness factor but I have a hard time shelling out nearly double for the AI brass if I can accomplish the same velocities out of the 280. It's that damn Hollander in me pinching pennies.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

Nothing says your fire forming load can't be accurate too.

Just saying

 

[HellsCanyonArmory]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

TAG...

Building a .280 AI this fall off my 700 LA and am stoked to start. It'll be my first tactical rifle and I got tons of '06 brass laying around to play with

Mike

 

[Weaselthis]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

Tarfu:
I'm about to complete the first round of load development for MY 1st custom.....280AI on a Remmy 700 (used to be '06). Bartlein 26" 1:9 w/ Vias brake & 168 Bergers. So far around .333 MOA at ave. 2980fps. Working on .50 MOA at 3050. 64-66g Retumbo. (Initial loads w/ 140g Bergers were better than that at 3270fps.) No trimming yet after 4th firing. (All disclaimers re: careful reloading practices apply. YLMV.) THE most accurate stick I've ever owned. REAL close to 7mag velocities w/ 10 gr less powder. Hunting rig and soon to embarrass myself in some informal matches w/ the sharks here at NCPPRC.

You already have an '06 action. You can buy Nosler 280AI OR some good 280 Rem. stuff. Sell the '06 brass and go to town! I think you'll be happy with either. The 7mm boolits are tits city, IMO. Good luck w/ the build.




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TARFU</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.257, already have a .308. I guess i could buy 280 AI brass. But, I have of load of 30.06 laying around. I've read conflicting reports of accuracy improvement in the AI. I saw an increase of 75 fps velocity and reports that case life is longer as it doesn't stretch as much. Is this consistent with your experience? </div></div>

 

[cjgemm]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

Thinking about getting a 280 barrel for this:

Ran some #'s through QL and found with 162Amax, 160 nosler accubonds and 180 VLD's loaded to 3.5" OAL - RL22 and a 22" barrel, all yielded less than 9 mils of drop to 1000. More research will be needed, but it looks promising so far.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

I am still in the initial stages of .280 Rem load workup for a Ruger 77MKI V.

I was going to use H4831SC with the Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tip and got the rude awakening that my Dillon Rifle Powder Measure Metering Bar wouldn't drop the 58-60gr of H4831SC that I'd be wanting to use.

So, I switched to H4350, and am working with loads between 56 and 56.8 gr (58 published max). I'll shoot these sometime in the next few weeks, and will finally have some idea of what to do next. This is a back burner project and is taking a loooong time.

This is one of a pair of 77 MKI's (inherited), the other has a sporter barrel, and both are intended primarily as hunters. This is why I'm using a shorter, lighter bullet. Working with Hornady Custom 139gr SST factory loads, it looks like the rifles will happily digest identical loads.

I'm figuring a 120gr projectile with a BC in the .4's going roughly 3100-3300fps could make an adequate impression on your average pesky varmint.

Schmeckkkk!

Per Pejsa, leaving at around 3250fps, peak traj occurs at 650yd, is less than 10ft, it'd still be going 1150+ at 1Kyd, and carrying 300+ft-lb with 29-30MOA. That's with the 120gr Ballistic Tip, and then; there's the 175SMK to contemplate...

Running the numbers, looks like the 150-160gr(-ish) lower drag bullets provide the better LR performance for this case. Those should make for a golden combo with H4350.

Greg

 

[swd]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

I've built about 10 280 AIs for customers and every one of them said they would do it again. That says enough for me.

 

[264Charlie]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

Read up. http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html

 

[jwill350]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

The 280 Ackley is one of my favorites. I don't understand the complaints about fireforming, all you do is pull the trigger?

 

[GreatGonzo]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

I had a 280AI barreled by Robert Snyder on a Lawton action.

First, I don't know why you would fireform when the Nosler brass is ready to go. Maybe I could see it if you just have to run Lapua 30-06 necked down and turned. That seems like a lot of work.

Second, 280 ammo shoots very well in my gun. Goes in tapered and comes out sharp. Shoots inside 1 inch (Cheap ass Rem PSP Corelokt). Fireforming is not hard and you can develop a very accurate load for it.

Third, 280 Ackley gets virtually the same velocities as 7mm Rem Mag while burning 2-5 grains less powder. It also has no belt to deal with while reloading.

My loads are 57.5g R-22 under a 162 A-max, and 58.9g R-22 under a 168 VLD out of a 24" tube. I don;t have a chrony, but I am consistently flatter with the 162 than I should be according to JBM running at 3000f/s. That is 7.2-ish mils to 1000. Anything faster is burning barrels for the sake of burning barrels. YMMV

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

Just got some excellent results yesterday in a .280 Ruger 77MKI V using Win brass and WLR, 56.4gr of H4350 and Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tip. Very windy, so I shot at 80yd, one hole for 3 rd, only slightly larger than bullet diameter overall. At 200, dispersion opened up as one might expect with (10-15, gusts to 25, fishtailing half-full value)winds, but was able to put most of them into 3" circles with no holdoff. That includes bracketing loads at 56.0gr and 56.8gr. Rest/bench.

...and I'm no G. David Tubb, either...

Greg

 

[mauser_addict]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

i am having a .280 ai built by benchmark barrels on a 700 la with an m40 contour barrel, 1:9 3-groove twist and blueprinted action right now. i was just gonna do .280 partly because reading up on it there wasn't much performance difference, and being newer to handloading and on a tight budget it should be more effective to just keep it standard but knowing my obsession with performance i called benchmark and had em change it to ai. that nosler brass is pretty pricey for me, so i may end up only buying one box of that to work up post fire form loads and just buy some rem brass to fireform. the guy that's building the stick for me has a similar setup and says he's pushing 180 bergers with excellent accuracy. didnt ask what his load specs were because i was too busy drooling, lol.

 

[Kells81]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

I had a 280AI built for a hunting rifle. Did so well at 500 that I had another one built for LR and target. I have used nosler brass and fireformed. Nothing wrong with either. Between the 280AI and 7mm RM, Give me the 280.

 

[g7spring]

Re: Can someone school me on 280 Rem/280 AI?

I had a 280AI built for my father. He hardly uses anything else now. I think its a great way to move a 160 gr bullet w/o getting beat up by a mag. I buy Nosler brass off the shelf. I haven't tried it yet but I'm going to get some of their loaded ammo. Its got to be the most accessible wildcat.