Rifle Scopes Cancelling PST

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beretta_man11

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Feb 17, 2010
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#1
I don't have time wait on my PST as hunting season is next month. Does anybody have a good comprimise? I am looking for 40-56mm lens, low pwr 5, High power 25 or so. Exposed turrets. Illuminated. mildots. any ideas? Oh and price needs to be somewhat close to the PST. $800
 
#6
Re: Cancelling PST

Got myself a Bushy Elite 4200 FFP Illum Mildot Tac Turrets in 6-24x50mm

Havent shot it yet but i did do a lazy mount on my .22 just so i could get a proper look through it and its brilliant! the reticule illumination is perfect.
 
#8
Re: Cancelling PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta_man11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have time wait on my PST as hunting season is next month. Does anybody have a good comprimise? I am looking for 40-56mm lens, low pwr 5, High power 25 or so. Exposed turrets. Illuminated. mildots. any ideas? Oh and price needs to be somewhat close to the PST. $800 </div></div>

What are you planning to hunt and at what ranges that could utilize such a large, high powered optic? Possibly extreme long range with a 338 LM...ok, but I don't imagine other hunting situations under 1000 yds that would need 25x.

I like the concept of the PST. It has a lot of desirable features in that price range, and if we ever get our hands on them, we'll see if they're really usable as a tactical scope; but it doesn't make a lot of sense as a general purpose hunting scope.

The way these scopes are being marketed reminds me of the way X-Box games were marketed when they were first introduced, that created a false scarcity. Until then, the PST is a myth; you can't buy one, and yet the mythology surrounding this scope is fast approaching legendary status.

So, why cancel your place in the waiting line...?

It might be quite a while yet before these are available. Just refuse to take delivery when they tell you it's ready if you don't want it at that point, and just buy a hunting scope in the meantime.

Anyway, what is your rifle, caliber, intended game, what area and anticipated range. Answers to these questions could generate more useful scope recommendations.

TC
 
#11
Re: Cancelling PST

I have a stiller 300wm. Kreiger barrel, McMillan stock so it should be a decent long range gun.
With this gun I will antelope hunt, deer hunt, may put it on my AR50 for long range steel, could put it on a 22-250 for shooting p-dogs at several hundred yards. I don't really see how I can have too much zoom. I have a 4-16 millet on my .17 now and at 16x I don't see how "I" could get to 1k with 16x. I'm sure proficient people dot it everyday.
I also have a 6500 on my 50 now. How does the aforementioned scopes stack up in regards to optical clarity? Thanks for all the help guys
 
#12
Re: Cancelling PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta_man11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 4-16 millet on my .17 now and at 16x I don't see how "I" could get to 1k with 16x. </div></div>

Magnification is highly overrated. My Falcon 4-14 failed in the middle of a shoot so that I could not focus it on 14x. In order to engage the 36" steel plate at 1900 yds. I had to dial it down to 11 or 12x just to see the plate. I hit it. You might be surprised how far you can shoot with lower magnification and good glass.

John
 
#13
Re: Cancelling PST

Bushnell Elite 4200 3x12 44mm FFP, or 6x24 50mm FFP, or the Weaver Tactical 4x20 50mm FFP.

I think that about covers it in comperable scopes with similar features and value.
 
#15
Re: Cancelling PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta_man11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't really see how I can have too much zoom.</div></div>

The likelihood of shooting in conditions that contain mirage, and the ability to spot your own shot/timeliness of follow up shots, could be two criteria long distance precision shooters may apply when selecting the maximum magnification for a rifle system....these may apply for you as well.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta_man11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't see how "I" could get to 1k with 16x.</div></div>

Have you shot your rifle with the 16x optic at 1K yet?

If so, what was lacking?....If not, attempt to gain access to a rifle that has the higher power optics you seek, one with similar recoil characteristics to your intended platform, and shoot it under the conditions/distance you intend too with yours.
 
#17
Re: Cancelling PST

I shot at a 15" diameter piece of steel at 1200 yards with a Millett at 16x with no problem, and it was a cloudy, crappy picture and the mirage was terrible.
I now have a NF 5.5x22. Interestingly, it rarely goes past 11x and I shoot 1k at least once a month.
I don't claim to be an expert, but at those distances the ability to read wind, judge mirage, reload consistently, understand ballistics and the weather's affect on them, and good trigger control will all SOOOOOOO outweigh your ability to see how many flies are on your target before you shoot it and to put your cross-hares within an inch of where you HOPE the bullet will impact...at 1k matches, my sights are rarely if ever centered over where I expect the bullet to impact
 
#18
Re: Cancelling PST

I had a PST on order as well. Had to cancel as I need a scope for my new 260 that is going with me to WY next month. I did alot of research and settled on the 6-24 Sightron SIII LRMD. I picked one up from my local dealer for 745.00 and I couldnt be happier. It is clearer and tracks better than the Leupold Mk4 6.5-20 I have on my 300WM, but I do like the TMR reticle over the standard MilDot.
 
#20
Re: Cancelling PST

I canceled my order for a PST also. Too much HYPE right now for me, If they turn out to be a worthy contender , I will get one then. I needed a scope for this hunting season and choose a Trijicon TR232 5-20X50. It is a very good scope. I am looking forward to hunting season, early light and just before dark is when this scope shows its true clarity. Its is worth a look.
bshooter..
 
#21
Re: Cancelling PST

Bshooter-I haven't heard much about these nor have I ever looked through one. I would like to see a bit of a review on it if you have time. I saw one for just under $900 on ebay, sound about par? What did you mount it on? It will be going on my 300wm or it could go on my .50 BMG so I want to make sure it will hold up to recoil before I buy one.
 
#22
Re: Cancelling PST

There is not a whole lot of info about the Trijicon TR23. The best article I found was on Longrangehunting.com. on the home page the article Titled Trijicons Unprecedented clarity with the TR23 or something like that. Trijicon is known for battlefield dependability. This is a sleeper scope in my opinion. I have the MIL DOT reticle, and it is sitting on a 257 Weatherby Mag. This scope is amazingly clear in low light. The target knobs are not as stiff as a NF NSX and a little tighter then a Zeiss. I will state this only because I own all three of these scope and have had the chance to do a side by side. The Trijicon has the best low light picture. Also in the forms in Longreanghunting.com in product reviews there is some feed back about this scope. Before I bought the TR232 I looked and looked on the net and did not find any BAD feed back at all on this scope. There is all kinds of scopes out there with all kinds of reticles making a lot of claims, spend your money wisely. bshooter..
 
#25
Re: Cancelling PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta_man11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't really see how I can have too much zoom. I have a 4-16 millet on my .17 now and at 16x I don't see how "I" could get to 1k with 16x. I'm sure proficient people dot it everyday. </div></div>

Proficient people DO do it every day. You can't see how because you have probably never been properly instructed on it.

I would also guess you never spent much time with iron sights.
 
#28
Re: Cancelling PST

It's not that I haven't looked at stuff at 1k, I have never shot at that range though. Never the less, I just bought a NF 5.5-22 Zero Stop from Jay (opticspecialist) at Sport Optics. He just got a customer for life. Great to deal with. Highly reccommended.
 
#31
Re: Cancelling PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta_man11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't really see how I can have too much zoom. I have a 4-16 millet on my .17 now and at 16x I don't see how "I" could get to 1k with 16x. I'm sure proficient people dot it everyday. </div></div>

Proficient people DO do it every day. You can't see how because you have probably never been properly instructed on it.

I would also guess you never spent much time with iron sights.
</div></div>
+1...
I shoot at a highpower competition where most guys are shooting 1k with iron sights, and several of them are on par or close to the scores I get with my $1600 Nightforce(which, bytheway, rarely goes above 11x zoom even though it's a 5.5-22x scope).
Tons of zoom is most definitely WAY overrated. Even a schmidt can't eliminate mirage, and lest we forget as zoom goes up sight picture size decreases...
If I get another scope I'll save my $$$ and go with a bit less zoom - 15-16x is more than enough...
 
#32
Re: Cancelling PST

I had 4 PST SFP scopes on order and couldnt wait any longer. After they came out and said that the knobs were the problem, I really started to wonder if that was really the problem. I want to ask the engineers HOW they could do all the R/D on a scope and let it pass with knobs like that.....doesnt make sense to me and wondered if there was something else wrong with the scope. So I too cancelled my order, to let the other guys have the first exp. with these scopes and if they turn out good Ill buy some.
So I went with a 3-18x42 IOR SFP with the big knob, very very nice scope, glass is incredible and the reticle is the sh!t alittle more $$ but not that much,Im very happy. So happy I sold 3 NightForces too, to my eyes the IOR has much better glass and tracks the same as the NightForce. Only draw back is the amount of MOA on the IORs, but how offten do I need 90+ MOA....I did keep one NightForce on the Lapua for shooting 2100yards the rest of the scope I now have are IORs.
 
#33
Re: Cancelling PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta_man11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glass isn't that goodon the NF. I am not overly impressed with the clarity/brightness for the price. Over rated.

</div></div>

I have a NSX 5.5-22X56 on a .260 and love the clarity and brightness. It is the the best scope I have ever owned and compared to the Leupolds and Bushnell I have owned it is hands down better in every category.

What are you comparing it too??
 
#34
Re: Cancelling PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta_man11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glass isn't that good on the NF. I am not overly impressed with the clarity/brightness for the price. Over rated.

</div></div>

That's not something you hear very often
confused.gif
 
#35
Re: Cancelling PST

I do not have anything of higher quality to compare it to but if you compare clarity vs $$. It's not that good. I have a $600 elite that OPTICALLY is not THAT far behind. Sure the turrets are nice, construction is good but....

i guess you don't hear any flack against the NF's as they are the holy grail on SH... I'm just calling it how "I" see it.

I did leave the PST on order so if the glass is on par with this and it is as good as supposed to be, there will be a 5.5-22x50 NXS up for sale. IF the pst ever comes
frown.gif
 
#38
Re: Cancelling PST

I suppose you realize this, but I'll say it anyway: shooting at 16X at 1,000 yards is VISUALLY like shooting with iron sights at 63 yards. Not really that big of a deal. In my opinion, magnification is overrated.
 
#39
Re: Cancelling PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta_man11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't really see how I can have too much zoom. I have a 4-16 millet on my .17 now and at 16x I don't see how "I" could get to 1k with 16x. I'm sure proficient people dot it everyday. </div></div>

Proficient people DO do it every day. You can't see how because you have probably never been properly instructed on it.

I would also guess you never spent much time with iron sights.
</div></div>On one of the last useful days of my Falcon Menace 4-14's life, it decided to lose focus at 14x. This was rather inconvenient timing, as I was engaging a target at the furthest distance I'd shot to date, 1900 yds. to be exact, and I was really hoping for a good result. By turning down to 12x, I was able to get a *somewhat* clear focus, and after totally botching the first shot due to a wind error on my part, hit center mass at 12 0'clock. The next two shots were high at 12 0' clock, but about 1 moa with a 12x scope at 1900 yards.

I do like magnification. But it's not as necessary as we make it out to be.

John
 
#40
Re: Cancelling PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm assuming you want a FFP.If so the Bushnell 6-24 FFP would be a consideration.I'm real happy with my Bushnell 3-12 FFP. </div></div>

I don't own a FFP, but I do have the SFP and two other Elite 4xxx scopes.

It's available, well built and in your price range.

There's a minty used one here, a SFP (if you don't need FFP) for $525 delivered.

Chris
 
#41
Re: Cancelling PST

Its not FFP and not an illuminated reticle, but I also cancelled my PST order due to hunting season and went with a Sightron SIII 8-32X56 mil dot. So far I am extremely happy with it. Excellent optical clarity and tracking. I am also glad that it has covers for the turrets so that they are not bumped accidentally while hiking.
 
#43
Re: Cancelling PST

I started long range shooting with Irons.
I run high mag scopes when I can. I run as high as conditions allow. I LIKE being able to SEE small detail and aim for it, even if I don't "need" to. I could "hit" the target without it.
If you have it you can use it, if you don't you can't.
Even the 6x on my .22rf's pisses me off sometimes and I'm always on the lookout for compact scopes.
Clarity is at least as important though.
 
#44
Re: Cancelling PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Ham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I suppose you realize this, but I'll say it anyway: shooting at 16X at 1,000 yards is VISUALLY like shooting with iron sights at 63 yards. Not really that big of a deal. In my opinion, magnification is overrated. </div></div>

Do consider that for some of us, the best image we ever get is probably worse than the worst optic you ever looked through. Wearing glasses and having astigmatism, I rely on magnification because I can't even see things small enough to aim at beyond very short distances just because my eyes are so bad.

I can't make out even a 3-4 inch dot at 50 yds, especially being left eye dominant and right-handed. I can hit body sized targets at that range no problem, but nothing even remotely considered target shooting. Damn it must be nice to see. My mom, who had >20/15 vision was finally so alarmed at her eyes' decline and the implications for driving a car she went to get glasses around age 45. The doc just laughed. She still easily saw 20/20. That didn't make her feel good about the rest of humanity being allowed to drive.
 
#45
Re: Cancelling PST

I would go with the Bushnell 4200 6-24 tactical, FFP and Mildot reticle. I have one on my DPMS LR-308 and it has been spot on out of the box. I got mine from Scott @ Liberty Optics.

http://www.libertyoptics.com/index1.html

He has them for $789 shipped. The best deal you will find and a snipers hide supporter as well. Excellent CS and super fast shipping.
 
#46
Re: Cancelling PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BugSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Ham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I suppose you realize this, but I'll say it anyway: shooting at 16X at 1,000 yards is VISUALLY like shooting with iron sights at 63 yards. Not really that big of a deal. In my opinion, magnification is overrated. </div></div>

Do consider that for some of us, the best image we ever get is probably worse than the worst optic you ever looked through. Wearing glasses and having astigmatism, I rely on magnification because I can't even see things small enough to aim at beyond very short distances just because my eyes are so bad.

I can't make out even a 3-4 inch dot at 50 yds, especially being left eye dominant and right-handed. I can hit body sized targets at that range no problem, but nothing even remotely considered target shooting. Damn it must be nice to see. My mom, who had >20/15 vision was finally so alarmed at her eyes' decline and the implications for driving a car she went to get glasses around age 45. The doc just laughed. She still easily saw 20/20. That didn't make her feel good about the rest of humanity being allowed to drive.</div></div>
It's interesting that with your poor eyesight, you still consider yourself a BugSniper
grin.gif
.

Your points are noted though.
 
#47
Re: Cancelling PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Ham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's interesting that with your poor eyesight, you still consider yourself a BugSniper
grin.gif
.</div></div>

There are bugs that do not require great eyesight...

371.jpg


John
 
#48
Re: Cancelling PST

I agree. If what is wrong with too much power? Just to let everyone know (i'm kinda proud of it) I have now shot out to 1k with 3 differnt guns, all with NXS 22x. I guess i could do it with my 16x but why not be able to pick a spot and try to hit it? 22x is MY way to go.
 
#49
Re: Cancelling PST

They were responding in particular to a post in reference to an 8-32 power scope on a hunting rifle.

If you are sitting in your stand and a deer steps out 20 yards from you, an 8x scope won't do you much good, you'll just be aiming a a brown blob.
 
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