Advanced Marksmanship Can't get my sitting position to work

M

m1a convert

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 29, 2003
287
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Idaho Falls
#1
I have been shooting sitting with a sling. When i cross my ankles I can't get the elevation high enough to bring the gun on the target. I end up with NPA well below the target array. I have slid my legs like scissors to the point I am almost ankle on ankle and still can't get it. The back of my upper arm is on my shins.

If I switch to having my feet in front of me and not crossed, I am not flexible enough to get my feet flat on the ground.

Not sure what to do.

thanks
 
#3
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

i tell shooters on the qual ranges all the time. Im sure you are but make sure you are bladed to the target with your weak side forward. Cross your legs to where your feet are touching your butt cheeks. A little uncomfortable but the best advice i can give when shooters have that problem during qual week. and also i realize that when your triceps are on your shins, its muscle to bone contact. But try putting your elbow in the bend of your knee when you are crossed legged. Hope this helps a little bit
 
#4
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

There are three variations of the sitting position. Crosslegged (ankles beneath knees), crossed ankles, spread ankles, with each one successively higher then the one before. The key to a good sitting position is the establishment of a bone-on-bone foundation.

Studying Yoga is actually a good piece of advice, but any physical exercise discipline that addresses flexibiity and extends range of motion will be helpful. If you can't touch your nose to you knee in the sitting position, you need to work on your flexibility until you can.

If you watch the serious position shooters before a match, they will each do their own form of a stretch and limber up routine.

Greg
 
#5
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

hey greg not to downplay what you said but do you mean bone-to-muscle foundation. Because bone on bone is not what you want because its less stable. Not trying to insult you or anything like that. But our Marksmanship manual preaches bone to muscle contact not bone to bone
 
#6
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

I was taught to ensure that a column of solid contact existed beneath the elbow of the arm supporting the rifle forend.

From <span style="font-style: italic">Entry Level Data Book, Rifle 5.56mm, M16A2</span> as issued at PI.

Pg11:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 7 Factors Common To all Shooting Positions

... Left hand under the handguard in a position to provide maximum bone support. Left arm and fingers are as relaxed at possible...</div></div>
 
#7
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

they are talking about bone support for the rifle, but as far as the support that your arms and legs give you want muscle to bone. Still not arguing or giving you shit Greg but try this put the point of your elbow on the side of your knee cap and see how stable that it, not in the bend but on the knee. Then put it in the bend or put your tricep on your knee, its alot more stable. The column of solid contact would be rifle,hand, elbow, muscle tissue or ground if in the prone. Also the bone support you are talking about is referring to not "muscling" the weapon. IE feet proper distance apart, straight or bladed to the target, wrist firm not fag style
 
#8
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

Decide what position offers you the most stability. I like back of arm above elbow on my shin and the other tucked into the crook of my knee. My ankles are crossed. It helps to get hips and glutes flexible to fully let your knees down. I use my flexibility to get down pretty low. As for your issue of being low, try putting the butt of the rifle slightly lower in your shoulder pocket and this should get you on target with npa. If your stock is adjustable you might shorten it a bit for your sitting position. These are just things that have worked for me, and I can relate to being uncomfortabley low with npa when I first started developing a sitting position.
 
#10
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

No, I mean pretty much what I said. I appreciate your effort to assist.

My methods are probably old, and as a starting approach, I probably do things in a slightly archaic manner.

Beyond the elementary, I think the key is to find alternative approaches that work as well, maybe better, for each individual. I have little doubt that what works for you is fine for you, and that what I do, though different, still serves my purposes, despite the differences.

That's what I like most about this site; the blending of approaches.

Greg
 
#11
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1a convert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been shooting sitting with a sling. When i cross my ankles I can't get the elevation high enough to bring the gun on the target. I end up with NPA well below the target array. I have slid my legs like scissors to the point I am almost ankle on ankle and still can't get it. The back of my upper arm is on my shins.

If I switch to having my feet in front of me and not crossed, I am not flexible enough to get my feet flat on the ground.

Not sure what to do.

thanks</div></div>

If you're right eye dominant, shoot left leg over right. This will get your elevation higher; plus, if still required, you can short stock the handguard and/or lower the butt stock in the shoulder.
 
#12
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

For what it's worth. I had the same problem in that I could not get a good sight picture because the front sight was down. I finally found that my sling was just a notch to tight, loosen by 1 notch and it's been golden. Don't forget to keep the butt high in your shoulder and really pull it in tight, so that your head is as straight up as possible. Hope that helps.
 
#13
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take Yoga classes </div></div>

Hahahah now that's funny!

But it's true, depending on how you sit - there are some people that can't sit cross legged.


Like Greg and the other guy mentioned, if you are like me and tall with long legs you may have to tuck your elbow into the bend of your knee.

If I have a shooting jacket on I will put my elbow on TOP of my knee to get the elevation but only with a shooting jacket as the rubber grip will keep my elbow from slipping off my knee.

Also note your LOP will change in sitting.

You'll also prefer a sling wrapped tight - but not too tight that you can't pull your arm into position and get behind the rifle properly.


Dry fire practice - put a dot on your living room wall and use it to dry fire with. - that is an IMMENSE help the few days before a match...
 
#14
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1a convert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been shooting sitting with a sling. When i cross my ankles I can't get the elevation high enough to bring the gun on the target. I end up with NPA well below the target array. I have slid my legs like scissors to the point I am almost ankle on ankle and still can't get it. The back of my upper arm is on my shins.

If I switch to having my feet in front of me and not crossed, I am not flexible enough to get my feet flat on the ground.

Not sure what to do.





Crossed ankles with legs extended with a HIGH sling position and the keeper positioned parallel or slightly to the rear on your arm works form me.
thanks </div></div>
 
#15
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

M1A, Daivd Tubb does it this way:
Shooting from the right shoulder;

"It's the support the coat gives across the shoulders that matters most to the sitting position...... The glove I wear for sittingis a Bric-pattern mitt..... and undo the top button on my pants..... I refer to my position as a modified corss-ankle. My left leg is extended, but I position my right foot under my left leg at the point where my left elbow contacts the leg.
the right ankle is positioned under the leg." David Tubb, Highpower Rifle, p 77.

Page 81 has a picture of the position. The left tricep contacts the left knee which is supported by the right ankle. Canting the rifle cures sight alignment.

Yoga is a remedy to inflexibility.
 
#16
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

I am not a fan of crossing my legs I find it less stable. Personally I leave my legs flat and place both elbows on my knees. I'm right handed so my rifle lies accross my left bicep and forearm. I use my arm almost like a sand sock so with just a slight flexing or relaxing motion i can adjust the elevation of the rifle. I also try to grab my right arm with my left hand, somewhat making everything tied together. I have found this to be the most steady for me in a sitting position. Also I have found this very good for both shooting at small angles uphill and even larger angels downhill.
 
#17
Re: Can't get my sitting position to work

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1a convert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been shooting sitting with a sling. When i cross my ankles I can't get the elevation high enough to bring the gun on the target. I end up with NPA well below the target array. I have slid my legs like scissors to the point I am almost ankle on ankle and still can't get it. The back of my upper arm is on my shins.
If I switch to having my feet in front of me and not crossed, I am not flexible enough to get my feet flat on the ground.
Not sure what to do.
thanks </div></div>
Get your feet tuck to your crotch and the tops of your feet as close to touching as possible. Your soles act as part of your rest because the closer your feet are together the higher your knews and legs will be propped up to be a non muscle rest that wont waver. Some times you might even work your feet so that the top of your body lowers. It might end up an uncomfortable position if your soles dig into your legs or you don't manage your legs good. Start standing at a 45 degree to the target tucking both outsides of your feet flat agaist each other. Then you si down so that your heels hit your crotch and the soles of feet prop your legs up. it will be painful normally but work on your gear you wear and drive on. stick one or both elbows in knee pockets for rigid bracing. It's all a case of finding your spot. Some times you'll get the feeling you have found the spot.
 
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