Can't get scope to zero low enough with 20MOA rail

[c3guns]

My setup:
Defiant Deviant action with 20MOA pic rail built-in
26" Bartlein 5R barrel
300Win Mag
Leupold MK4HD 4.5-18x52 MOA #183624
Reptilia one-piece mount, 0 cant
190gr Hornady Match ammo (and others)

My problem:
Trying to zero this rifle at 25yds, hitting 5" above aim with the elevation bottomed completely out on the scope.
At 150yds. bullet impact is 24 inches high from point of aim with elevation bottomed out.

Is the issue the capabilities of my scope, not enough adjustment range, or what? My next move will be to mount this scope with a 20MOA mount reversed, to counter the cant of the receiver's integral rail, but this feels like a stop-gap, not a solution.

My goal for the rifle was to shoot out to 1,000+ so I ordered the receiver with the 20MOA. Is this too much for a .300WM?

 

[spife7980]

The scope should have 125 moa of total elevation adjustment, that’s 62.5 up and 62.5 down.
20 moa base shifts that to be 82.5 up and 42.5 down.

You should have adequate travel to get a 100 yards zero.

Sure you aren’t hitting the zero stop? How many moa/revolutions up do you have available in the turret?

 

[Megalodong]

User error.

 

[RG0099]

????, not at all familiar with this scope and I only shoot mil reticle, but first question is why you are trying to zero at 25 yards?

As for your 150 yard shot, is your zero stop not letting you adjust low enough?

 

[c3guns]

Not trying to zero at 25, just used that as a starting point to get on paper with a brand new rifle that's never been fired.

It's not the zero stop, unless the scope is not functioning properly... I have the zero stop set to make the "zero" at the very bottom of the elevation adjustment range. This leads me to believe there's something not right in my reticle function...

 

[c3guns]

The scope should have 125 moa of total elevation adjustment, that’s 62.5 up and 62.5 down.
20 moa base shifts that to be 82.5 up and 42.5 down.

You should have adequate travel to get a 100 yards zero.

Sure you aren’t hitting the zero stop? How many moa/revolutions up do you have available in the turret?

From the absolute bottom of the adjustment range, I have three full revolutions of adjustment.

 

[6.5SH]

Read this post:

The Leupold Mark5 claims 34.9 mils of adjustment but the turret clearly only travels from 0 to 30.

Even on this obscure specialist board people rather post memes and insults than just discuss the topic and share insight. The internet is dead

www.snipershide.com

Look at the pictures of the turret removed here to understand what he's talking about:

Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56 Rifle Scope with PR2-MIL reticle review

BigJimFish reviews the Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56 rifle scope, a scope with excellent competition / hunting crossover and the new, pro shooter designed, PR2-MIL reticle

www.snipershide.com

Leupold alludes to it but doesn't really explain it or show it:

https://www.leupold.com/media/manuals/tactical-riflescope-users-manual.pdf

ETA:
It is the M5C3 turret system specifically you are looking at.

 

[c3guns]

Read this post:

The Leupold Mark5 claims 34.9 mils of adjustment but the turret clearly only travels from 0 to 30.

Even on this obscure specialist board people rather post memes and insults than just discuss the topic and share insight. The internet is dead

www.snipershide.com

Look at the pictures of the turret removed here to understand what he's talking about:

Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56 Rifle Scope with PR2-MIL reticle review

BigJimFish reviews the Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56 rifle scope, a scope with excellent competition / hunting crossover and the new, pro shooter designed, PR2-MIL reticle

www.snipershide.com

Leupold alludes to it but doesn't really explain it or show it:

https://www.leupold.com/media/manuals/tactical-riflescope-users-manual.pdf

ETA:
It is the M5C3 turret system specifically you are looking at.

This is very helpful. Makes me wonder if I need to remove the turret cap and rotate it past the "stop" and maybe it will give me more downward travel? Going to try this next, thanks!

 

[Ikeman83]

From the absolute bottom of the adjustment range, I have three full revolutions of adjustment.

looks like 3 revs on that turret is not 120 moa.

What you're describing sounds exactly like a 20 moa based scope at optical center.

 

[c3guns]

looks like 3 revs on that turret is not 120 moa.

What you're describing sounds exactly like a 20 moa based scope at optical center.

So looking at the scope's specs on the Leupold website, it states this model has 1 MOA clicks, with 40 MOA adjustment in each direction, which I take to mean with the reticle centered, it should have 40 clicks in up, down, left and right travel. The elevation turret maxes out with an indicated 72MOA elevation, hence the "fudge" on a full 80MOA of adjustment up and down.

What I don't understand is the scope specs state that it has 125MOA of "elevation adjustment range"... Are they including the subtensions in the reticle itself in this measurement? Because 80MOA of adjustment and 125MOA of "adjustment range" don't make sense.

I went back and double checked that the reticle is bottomed out with the turret removed and the reticle turned with a screwdriver down to its lowest point, and that's where my zero stop was set to try and zero the rifle.

Could it actually be that this rifle/cartridge shoots too flat for this particular scope/base combination?

 

[Ronws]

Rifle Scopes - Zeroing Rifle with 20 MOA Rail

Long story short I'll be pushing my ranges out next Spring and when I added my new scope (50 MOA total elevation travel) and got it zero'd at 100 with a laser cartridge I ended up using 20+ MOA of potential elevation to get it zero'd leaving me with only roughly 25 MOA of up elevation. So, I...

www.snipershide.com

Here is a discussion about zeroing out at 100 yards, not 25 yards. No one I have seen is doing that. It can be recommended to zero for 200 yards. Which you can do at a 100 yard range. Usually means being 2 inches high on most hunting rifles.

So, you have a built-in 20 MOA rail. Is it canted? I know you said the mount is not canted and I looked at the website and there was no information on how much MOA the mount may add or if there is a cant.

You said the scope is 1 MOA per click? I don't have a Leupold and had just assumed their scopes were like most others, 1/4 MOA per click but I learn something new every day and I am the stupidest one here. Not false humility, just a fact.

 

[TahoeDust]

Leupold MK4HD 4.5-18x52 MOA #183624

You sure the model number is right? #183624 looks to be a Mil version...

 

[DownhillFromHere]

There is so much confusion in this thread.

First, OP says the scope is "Leupold MK4HD 4.5-18x52 MOA #183624." That last number - the part number - shows on the Leupold website as having mils turrets:

So which is it? MOA or mils?
---------
Then, in post 10, OP says "So looking at the scope's specs on the Leupold website, it states this model has 1 MOA clicks, with 40 MOA adjustment in each direction..."

No. Those figures are for the reticle subtensions - NOT adjustment - IF this is an MOA scope (clarify part number). From the web site:

• 1 MOA increments
• 40 MOA of measurement in each direction (You use the reticle subtensions like a ruler; one does NOT use linear measurements in this game, one uses angular measurement).

Select the Specifications tab on this link to see Leupold's info on the scope. It show 1/4MOA per click, 71.5MOA Elevation Dial Travel Limit (meaning the turret will turn almost three 25MOA revolutions) - but the scope's erector assembly gives 125MOA total elevation capability.

This means (to me; I've never owned a Leupold scope but I've used several zero stop mechanisms) ya gotta work with the zero stop mechanism. From the manual:

-------

I hope this is useful. I grew up in the era of simplex reticles in capped turrets on a one-inch tube and 12x magnification was a lot. Modern scopes have so much more capability, but they can trip up newbies.

Good luck OP.

 

[c3guns]

You sure the model number is right? #183624 looks to be a Mil version...

You're right... Mine's the 183623...

 

[c3guns]

There is so much confusion in this thread.

First, OP says the scope is "Leupold MK4HD 4.5-18x52 MOA #183624." That last number - the part number - shows on the Leupold website as having mils turrets:
View attachment 8628054

So which is it? MOA or mils?
---------
Then, in post 10, OP says "So looking at the scope's specs on the Leupold website, it states this model has 1 MOA clicks, with 40 MOA adjustment in each direction..."

No. Those figures are for the reticle subtensions - NOT adjustment - IF this is an MOA scope (clarify part number). From the web site:

• 1 MOA increments
• 40 MOA of measurement in each direction (You use the reticle subtensions like a ruler; one does NOT use linear measurements in this game, one uses angular measurement).

Select the Specifications tab on this link to see Leupold's info on the scope. It show 1/4MOA per click, 71.5MOA Elevation Dial Travel Limit (meaning the turret will turn almost three 25MOA revolutions) - but the scope's erector assembly gives 125MOA total elevation capability.

This means (to me; I've never owned a Leupold scope but I've used several zero stop mechanisms) ya gotta work with the zero stop mechanism. From the manual:
View attachment 8628075

-------

I hope this is useful. I grew up in the era of simplex reticles in capped turrets on a one-inch tube and 12x magnification was a lot. Modern scopes have so much more capability, but they can trip up newbies.

Good luck OP.

Correct, my mistake. it's the 183623. Fat fingered the keyboard or just retarded... Anywho, the zero stop is not causing the problem, best I can tell, as I've bottomed out the reticle with the turret cap completely removed, so no zero stop function in place, and the reticle is still too high to zero even at 150 yards. It's physically impossible to make the crosshairs adjust to any lower impact point than they are and I'm still 24" high at 150yds.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Correct, my mistake. it's the 183623. Fat fingered the keyboard or just retarded... Anywho, the zero stop is not causing the problem, best I can tell, as I've bottomed out the reticle with the turret cap completely removed, so no zero stop function in place, and the reticle is still too high to zero even at 150 yards. It's physically impossible to make the crosshairs adjust to any lower impact point than they are and I'm still 24" high at 150yds.

Ok, sounds like maybe you have a dud scope. It happens.

Again, I've never owned a Leupold scope, so I don't know what their customer service is like. You also don't say where you purchased it; if it was broken on arrival, maybe the vendor will help. I think Amazon, for example, lets you return dead-on-arrival items but I'm not sure. If you can get through to a CSR at Leupold, maybe he/she can suggest trying something not immediately obvious.

Good luck. Fwiw, you need your POI to be about 4.5MOA below your POA at 25 yards to be close at 100.

 

[6.5SH]

Second that, contact Leupold OP.