Canting Scope for Cross Eye Dominant Shooting

[powerspc]

I’ve read what I could find on the internet but there seems to be a lot of conflicting information and opinions (not surprising) and the topic is not without its controversy. In a nutshell; I have a friend who has lost some of the acuity in his right eye due to Macular Degeneration (note: it has been corrected to 20/30 but not without sequela. Your macula is like a piece of tin foil, one distorted you can "flatten it" but it will never be perfectly smooth again. So although he can see out of his right eye images appear magnified and somewhat distorted, like looking through water).

He is a right handed shooter and right eye dominant. His left eye is a perfect 20/20. Aside for the moment that he does not want to shoot left handed it occurred to me you could simply cant the scope to the left so that it would fall in front of your left eye and violà problem solved! Or is it? Does anyone have any first-hand experience in doing this? Does it work? Will it work?

There are a lot of cross eye dominant shooters, one we may all know is Hickock45 who is left eye dominant and shoots right handed (note: he shot most of his life with his weak/right eye and only in later years shot with his left/dominant eye. For pistol shooting this is relatively easy as you can pull your head around the firearm, not achievable for rifles). So I know in theory it should be possible, but what other considerations need to be take into account for the mounting of a scope? All feedback encouraged.

 

[flyer]

An offset mount makes your bullet path pass through your optical elevation plane at one point. If he is always shooting at 100 yards it can be aimed for that point, for multiple distances, some precision in windage is going to be lost (but predictable).

This is why most better trap guns and double rifles are over-under.

 

[powerspc]

So feasible, yes? would you use 45 degree mounts?

 

[Lowlight]

I am cross eye dominant,

Left Eye - Right handed, although I am Ambi and can shoot either way

Simple is better, you start moving around playing with things you are not gonna succeed

It's training, eye dominance is not an issue shooting with a scope, it's an iron sight issue because aligning the two sights is the problem. In a scope, you are not doing the same thing so why fight it that much. You can easily learn to shoot correctly without changing the work to an offset mount

You need to properly set the scope up to you and your shooting eye, dominant or otherwise. If you feel you need to close the left eye, while a bad practice it is not a terrible way to go about it. If you want to train it properly get eye pro that blocks the left eye, as all you need to do is cut the information off to the left eye for a short period of time until the right eye focuses and then you can move forward. Our brain is more than complex to figure it out.

Prescription shooting glasses for me eliminated the need to close or block the left eye as I have trained myself to do it with both eye open. the only time I have an issue is when I am tired or don't have prescription glasses on, then I might have to think about it.

Overlaying this is optics is a mistake, it's an iron sight thing.

 

[powerspc]

I am cross eye dominant,

Left Eye - Right handed, although I am Ambi and can shoot either way

Simple is better, you start moving around playing with things you are not gonna succeed

It's training, eye dominance is not an issue shooting with a scope, it's an iron sight issue because aligning the two sights is the problem. In a scope, you are not doing the same thing so why fight it that much. You can easily learn to shoot correctly without changing the work to an offset mount

You need to properly set the scope up to you and your shooting eye, dominant or otherwise. If you feel you need to close the left eye, while a bad practice it is not a terrible way to go about it. If you want to train it properly get eye pro that blocks the left eye, as all you need to do is cut the information off to the left eye for a short period of time until the right eye focuses and then you can move forward. Our brain is more than complex to figure it out.

Prescription shooting glasses for me eliminated the need to close or block the left eye as I have trained myself to do it with both eye open. the only time I have an issue is when I am tired or don't have prescription glasses on, then I might have to think about it.

Overlaying this is optics is a mistake, it's an iron sight thing.

I've tried this with my own rifle; I am right eye-right hand. If I try and shoot right hand-left eye it's difficult (immpossibe?) to get my head in a position where my left eye if looking down the scope (basically the stock which is on my right shoulder is in the way of my head). That's what made me think about canting the scope so that it put the scope in front of the left eye as opposed to trying to get your head "around" the stock.

 

[Lowlight]

We teach offside or support side shooting all the time it was a mainstay topic at Rifles Only, 25% of the classes would always pretend they could not do it but you can you just need to be taught.

The only reason you can't do it, or believe you cannot do it is training

Switching side is not difficult it's identical to shooting on the right.

 

[Lowlight]

This weekend, Gunwerks Match, you had to shoot support side, my head is in the same position as on the right.

 

[powerspc]

View attachment 6928922
This weekend, Gunwerks Match, you had to shoot support side, my head is in the same position as on the right.

Much appreciated Sir, considering the source of the advice I will pass it along as Gospel. In addition you have given me something to work on for myself. As a LEO we train shooting pistols weak hand, yet this training is not reciprocated for rifle/shotgun. As I’ve begun dipping my toe into long distance shooting as well this will now become a standard part of my range days. Thanks again!

 

[Sheldon N]

Don't mess with the scope, just shoot left handed. Like Lowlight said, it's just a training/practice thing.

I practice shooting my bolt gun weak side/weak eye every time I go to the range. I shoot at a 2MOA target from multiple different barricade positions. The more I do it, the less it feels any different than shooting right handed.

 

[...]

Im cross dominant.....left eye right hand.

learn to shoot with both hand/ eyes.......honestly thats the best advise i have to give.

if you start canting the scope to shoot right hand with your left eye, your form is going to be shit....and any position you try to build on that will fall apart.

not to mention the issues you will run into shooting a canted scope.......adjusting your dope will be a nightmare.


personally i shoot right handed 90% of the time......and its not an issue, because the magnification of the scope will "strengthen" your non dominant eye, and you should be able to shoot without much fuss.


other tricks you can do is simply block your left eye.......i do this with a thin strip of scotch tape on the far side of the lense of my glasses.....it block my vision enough that i can shoot, but i dont look like a pirate walking around.

also, turn your scope cap 90* so when it pops open, it blocks your left eye.


also realize, your eye dominance isnt fixed.....it can shift around.......when i was shooting 4 hrs a day in college, my eye dominance switched from a STRONG left eye dominace, to a neutral or "cycloptic" vision.....meaning each of my eyes was equally dominant..........and that was because i always shot with my left eye occluded

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

I'm left eye dominant and right handed. I shoot handguns right handed because I can just shift the gun over and acquire sights with my left eye. With rifles it has been different. I shoot left handed. Oddly enough I still buy right handed actions and shoot them left handed.

I'm not having any problems so I have not had to fix anything. Freaks people out (like my Brother) who knows I am right handed when I get behind my right hand action Precision Rifle and pound the daylights out of a target shooting left handed. it's just natural and intuitive for me. I do shoot with both eyes open and my bubble level is mounted close on my right side of the scope and I can see the bubble superimposed over the crosshairs. Really nice...odd but I'm not changing anything no matter what my Mentors want.

Years ago I tried to change my eye dominance and force right eye/right hand and it messed up my brain...in some people eye dominance is learned - in others it is because of the Way their brain works and forcing it can cause serious issues. In my case migraines and loss of ability to improvise as a musician. Be careful about screwing with eye dominance and experiment judiciously.

YMMV.

VooDoo

 

[bax]

Geezer story. About 20 years ago, I shot the Super Shoot, a bench rest match in Marshallville OH. All of the inside tables were taken so I used a table outside. I was on the same table with Mike Walker, the Remington guy who designed the model 700 action and the 7 MM Magnum cartridge. At the time, Mike was mostly blind in his right eye but he shot right-handed. He had a 6x47 gun that looked like his grand kids painted with wild colors and brushes then threw sand on the paint. It used an extremely rare M700 wide tang receiver that Mike had personally made for the Army Marksmanship Unit and on the top was a piece of sheet metal screwed into the scope base holes. On the left side there was a scope. So he shot right handed with his left eye at 200 yards. And he shot VERY well with this gitup. We were there for four days and that man had some good stories.

 

[Shortrangelong]

I am cross eye dominant (left eye/right hand). I am just getting into shooting and was curious if it would be better to learn to shoot left-handed or train my right eye to be dominant? Either way it is going to take work and practice.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Left eye dominant with long guns? I learned to shoot left handed....way easier than changing eye dominance.

VooDoo

 

[sinister]

He can also try offset bases. It all depends on how me much he wants to putz with work-arounds.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

My Granddaughter is right eye/left hand. Since the preponderance of rifles are right handed, she simply decided to shoot right handed. It really never was any big issue.

I do the two hands/find the dominant eye test on myself and get varying results. Beats me. I shoot right handed, rifle and handgun. I do it for the same reason my Granddaughter shoots righty; the guns are built for it.

Greg

 

[jab00]

Dumb question - I've always just used right-handed rifles, rested my cheek on the right side of the buttstock and used my left hand to work the trigger and my right to run the bolt and it seems to work fine. Is this a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" or would I gain any advantage by training myself to shoot "true" right-handed?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Not if your technique is effective. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it...".

Greg

 

[hlee]

Dumb question - I've always just used right-handed rifles, rested my cheek on the right side of the buttstock and used my left hand to work the trigger and my right to run the bolt and it seems to work fine. Is this a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" or would I gain any advantage by training myself to shoot "true" right-handed?

Lots of lefties would argue that using a right hand action gives them an advantage as they can work the action with their support hand. This would seem to hold true, so long as you are not shooting with sling support. You are probably better off with a left handed action if you are left handed and are shooting with a sling, or right with right.

@powerspc

Lowlights video on cross eye dominance...

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

I'm cross eye dominant/right handed. So, left eye dominant. I shoot a right handed action, left handed, and us my support hand to run the action.

Works fine for me *but* I'm shooting prone from a bipod ....if I planned on competing I'd likely run a left handed action and just pretend I'm left handed. I have been doing this cross eye dominance thing a long time and, fr me, learning to shoot left handed was way easier than changing eye dominance. Plus I can now easily handle two handguns because my left hand is just as disciplined.

VooDoo

 

[Sheldon N]

I practice shooting my right handed rifle left handed a fair bit. It's okay but if I had to shoot left handed all the time I'd get a left handed rifle.

The main reason is that for me the non-trigger hand is the one controlling the point of aim to a large degree. On a barricade it's usually extended forward to the front of the stock to stabilize and adjust point of aim, and when shooting prone it's controlling the point of aim with the rear bag. In either situation I have to surrender the control of the rifle to a degree when running the bolt, and then have to reposition/reacquire once the support hand goes back on the bag or the front of the rifle.

 

[jab00]

Lots of lefties would argue that using a right hand action gives them an advantage as they can work the action with their support hand. This would seem to hold true, so long as you are not shooting with sling support. You are probably better off with a left handed action if you are left handed and are shooting with a sling, or right with right.

@powerspc

Lowlights video on cross eye dominance...

Thanks for the video link - I shoot my bolt guns prone off of a bipod or from the bench using a bag or a rest most of the time. If I'm shooting my AR or M1A, I'm usually standing but I don't normally sling them up. To be honest, I've never tried a left-hand action to see how I'd do (a possible excuse to buy a new gun and find out)

 

[jab00]

Not if your technique is effective. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it...".

Greg

That's actually a tough question - I've been doing it this way since I was kid but maybe I should try a left handed action and see if it changes anything

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I've been experiencing advancing cataracts. I'm scheduled to go into the Tucson VA for vision evaluation today, with the expectation that I will be scheduled soon for cataract surgery. Over the past two years, I've been getting informed that I have them, that they are getting advanced, and that they will take care of them when the time comes.

The time has come.

A month ago I shot a nice group about 1 to 1 1/2 MOA with my Garand at 100. Yesterday, I couldn't even find the same 6" bull in the sights. My optical sights still allow me to see and shoot tight, but some of the target detail just isn't there anymore, like fine lines and rings. I need to put up the guns and get this fixed ASAP.

The general impression is like seeing things through smoke. I can't read street names anymore. I'm constantly cleaning my glasses, but it's getting so that's not the problem anymore.

As far as the surgery is concerned, I'm not concerned; except about seeing how soon we can get this in the rear view. I definitely do not have macular degeneration as of my last eye exam a few months ago.

Frustrating? Some, but not a bunch, been though bunches of a lot worse. We'll see this through. Getting old does not suck, but it does make life newly interesting sometimes.

Looking forward to seeing the stars sharp and clear again soon.

To others, sometimes the probem with eye dominance can get complicated by degenerative vision issues like mine. Just something to keep in mind when dealing with the overall issue. This could be related to the times I got varying results out of the basic eye dominance test.

Greg

 

[Mtndog05]

We are in good company. I too am cross dominate, left eye right hand. I have learned to work around it by obscuring my left eye with tape, vasoline or my scope cap @ 9:00. Do what you have to do to get square behind the rifle

 

[stello1001]

Another left eye right hand dominant person here. I must have a right handed rifle and shoot it lefty. It works for me and there is no reason for me to fix it since it ain't broke.

 

[jab00]

Another left eye right hand dominant person here. I must have a right handed rifle and shoot it lefty. It works for me and there is no reason for me to fix it since it ain't broke.

Yep - I tried shooting my right-handed guns "righty" and it just doesn't feel comfortable. That would probably change if I practiced it enough but I think I'll stay with shooting "lefty". The one advantage of doing it "lefty" is that I can use my dominant hand to run the bolt and don't have to move my trigger hand, so I can keep my sight picture pretty well

 

[Diver160651]

Yep - I tried shooting my right-handed guns "righty" and it just doesn't feel comfortable. That would probably change if I practiced it enough but I think I'll stay with shooting "lefty". The one advantage of doing it "lefty" is that I can use my dominant hand to run the bolt and don't have to move my trigger hand, so I can keep my sight picture pretty well

​

I have also switched to shooting my right hand actions on the left side, because of an right eye issue. I'll give it to those that shoot reversed that some things "seem better" like seeing onto the ejection port, or even the idea when prone or on the bench your trigger hand doesn't move. Sheldon N and a few others summed it up, but let me detail what I have found having to shoot weak side, unable to even see the reticle with my right eye.

Make no mistake, there are large compromises when shooting shooting the reverse actions. (unless you have a small enough scope to reach over).

1. Shooting prone your elevation hand looses control of the squeeze bag. It is also the longest and slowest of the two moves. This may seem small, but it is less of an advantage to "stay on the trigger" when the trigger can NOT be run anyway; at the cost of keeping the guns elevation perfect and sights on Target.
2. Shooting in the felid such as hunting, especially off-hand, requires the main support hand to drop the fore end of the gun loosing sight picture and position. This is a much, much slower than using the proper action. I hate when a match has an off hand stage, not for the first shot, but for the time limits and positional resets it causes.
3. NRL22 and PRS Type and Field matches expose an entire host of positions were bench or prone shooting doesn't. The support hand if used much as you might in hunting, usually to steady the gun by placing it over the scope or fore end. It is a really time suck and disadvantage to have to switch up hands and then again to resteady the gun.

Here is an example on a barricade practice device, where I am really compromising follow-thru lock time in order to switch my hands. My "trigger hand" needs to come off the trigger, change grip now support the entire rifle to try to hold position and my position hand needs to run all the way back and run the bolt and then I need to reverse the entire process, before I can even begin to send another round.​

​

You can see the barricade practice device here.​

I get it if you're never seeing time pressures and a range only bench or prone guy, especially a benchrester using mechanical rests. I have a bunch of right hand actions and my son shoots right hand, so I am not going to change. But I think it is important if you are a field shooter, be it a hunter or a match guy to know the compromises. If you have the time to change before you're to invested, it is worth thinking about.

 

[Sheldon N]

Make no mistake, there are large compromises when shooting shooting the reverse actions. (unless you have a small enough scope to reach over).

1. Shooting prone your elevation hand looses control of the squeeze bag. It is also the longest and slowest of the two moves. This may seem small, but it is less of an advantage to "stay on the trigger" when the trigger can NOT be run anyway; at the cost of keeping the guns elevation perfect and sights on Target.
2. Shooting in the felid such as hunting, especially off-hand, requires the main support hand to drop the fore end of the gun loosing sight picture and position. This is a much, much slower than using the proper action. I hate when a match has an off hand stage, not for the first shot, but for the time limits and positional resets it causes.
3. NRL22 and PRS Type and Field matches expose an entire host of positions were bench or prone shooting doesn't. The support hand if used much as you might in hunting, usually to steady the gun by placing it over the scope or fore end. It is a really time suck and disadvantage to have to switch up hands and then again to resteady the gun.

Yes, exactly my experience as well.

 

[jab00]

​

I have also switched to shooting my right hand actions on the left side, because of an right eye issue. I'll give it to those that shoot reversed that some things "seem better" like seeing onto the ejection port, or even the idea when prone or on the bench your trigger hand doesn't move. Sheldon N and a few others summed it up, but let me detail what I have found having to shoot weak side, unable to even see the reticle with my right eye.

Make no mistake, there are large compromises when shooting shooting the reverse actions. (unless you have a small enough scope to reach over).

1. Shooting prone your elevation hand looses control of the squeeze bag. It is also the longest and slowest of the two moves. This may seem small, but it is less of an advantage to "stay on the trigger" when the trigger can NOT be run anyway; at the cost of keeping the guns elevation perfect and sights on Target.
2. Shooting in the felid such as hunting, especially off-hand, requires the main support hand to drop the fore end of the gun loosing sight picture and position. This is a much, much slower than using the proper action. I hate when a match has an off hand stage, not for the first shot, but for the time limits and positional resets it causes.
3. NRL22 and PRS Type and Field matches expose an entire host of positions were bench or prone shooting doesn't. The support hand if used much as you might in hunting, usually to steady the gun by placing it over the scope or fore end. It is a really time suck and disadvantage to have to switch up hands and then again to resteady the gun.

Here is an example on a barricade practice device, where I am really compromising follow-thru lock time in order to switch my hands. My "trigger hand" needs to come off the trigger, change grip now support the entire rifle to try to hold position and my position hand needs to run all the way back and run the bolt and then I need to reverse the entire process, before I can even begin to send another round.​

​

You can see the barricade practice device here.​

I get it if you're never seeing time pressures and a range only bench or prone guy, especially a benchrester using mechanical rests. I have a bunch of right hand actions and my son shoots right hand, so I am not going to change. But I think it is important if you are a field shooter, be it a hunter or a match guy to know the compromises. If you have the time to change before you're to invested, it is worth thinking about.

I get what you're saying and totally agree. Like you said, I'm just shooting prone with no time restrictions so the methid works for me. I'd definitely need to work on the weak-side method if I ever get to the point where I'd like to compete

 

[Bandaid]

I am left eye, right hand and have been shooting lefty ever since I started shooting a rifle when I was a kid. It came naturally to me. I now use a lefty action and couldn't be happier. But now that i have been dabbling in local comps i wish i would have trained myself better to shoot right handed. I have to tape my left eye to focus with my right. I will be working on this more in the future.