Can’t zero my new scope. Can it be broken or am I missing something ?

[Zmu23]

Hey all. I recently swapped my vortex crossfire 3-9 off my savage axis 308 and put on an arken epl4 6-24x50. Prior to this, I had no issue with my 3-9 and could take it out to 500 yards consistently. Since putting the new scope on I cannot get it to zero in any capacity. I have tried two different laser bore sights and ranged it at 25 yards, 50 yards, and 100 yards all while taking shots after each and they weren’t even on paper.

it is shooting about 3 mil’s to the right and I’m out of windage on the turrets. It’s also shooting high and I’m almost out of elevation.

Any idea of what I can do or should I just return the scope? I’ve wasted about 50 rounds so far

 

[softcock]

 

[J. W.]

Obvious first question is “is everything torqued?”

 

[lash]

First things to check for sure are bolts and torques, that is, after you make sure all is is properly tight and in place.

Considering that

 

[Ronws]

Also, check to see if the rail is 0 MOA or 20 MOA. A 20 MOA rail should be zeroed at 200 yards. If you try to zero at 100, you run into that problem. If not that and torque is not a problem, then send it in for warranty. I hear their warranty is good. Also, you will need some Vibra Tite for the turrets. Those set screws will back themselves out and you are left with spinning dials.

 

[hafejd30]

 

[Zmu23]

Obvious first question is “is everything torqued?”

Yes I have the rail and rings to the specs

 

[Zmu23]

Could it be the scope has too much clearance above the barrel? I’m using warne 30mm medium rings

Also it is a 0moa rail

 

[ArTeeKay]

Height over bore isn't the problem.

 

[ArTeeKay]

Start close. Like, stupid close. 25 feet or less, if you're somehow not getting on paper at 25 yards. Work out from there once you've returned your erector assembly to it's optical center. Basically make sure your dials are in the middle of their travel.

Don't rule out a problem with the scope, but don't start there either.

 

[kilizyrag]

Also, check to see if the rail is 0 MOA or 20 MOA. A 20 MOA rail should be zeroed at 200 yards. If you try to zero at 100, you run into that problem. If not that and torque is not a problem, then send it in for warranty. I hear their warranty is good. Also, you will need some Vibra Tite for the turrets. Those set screws will back themselves out and you are left with spinning dials.

I zero at 100 with a 20moa base with no problems.

 

[iceng]

Also, check to see if the rail is 0 MOA or 20 MOA. A 20 MOA rail should be zeroed at 200 yards. If you try to zero at 100, you run into that problem. If not that and torque is not a problem, then send it in for warranty. I hear their warranty is good. Also, you will need some Vibra Tite for the turrets. Those set screws will back themselves out and you are left with spinning dials.

Wtf drugs are you taking ? You need to up your meds, or completely go cold turkey.

 

[Baron23]

if the rail is 0 MOA or 20 MOA. A 20 MOA rail should be zeroed at 200 yards. If you try to zero at 100, you run into that problem.

LOL

 

[Milf Dots]

Hey all. I recently swapped my vortex crossfire 3-9 off my savage axis 308 and put on an arken epl4 6-24x50. Prior to this, I had no issue with my 3-9 and could take it out to 500 yards consistently. Since putting the new scope on I cannot get it to zero in any capacity. I have tried two different laser bore sights and ranged it at 25 yards, 50 yards, and 100 yards all while taking shots after each and they weren’t even on paper.

it is shooting about 3 mil’s to the right and I’m out of windage on the turrets. It’s also shooting high and I’m almost out of elevation.

Any idea of what I can do or should I just return the scope? I’ve wasted about 50 rounds so far

You say you used laser bore sights at 25 yards, then fired rounds, but they weren't on paper- yet you STILL went to 50 yds and then 100 yds?

I call BS because nobody would waste ammo past 25 yds until they actually got it to hit consistently on paper at 25.

 

[iceng]

Ok. You said everything is done up properly, so ill take you know how to use your hands properly. Right hand for pissing, left hand for holding beer and middle finger signals.

Set your rifle on a bench, aiming at a 50m target (100m does work, 50 is easier), with the bolt out.

Look down the barrel (i cant believe i have to say the chamber end) and look at the target. Centre the target in the bore. You DONT want to be touching the gun once you have lined it ip. Have the gun resting, and pointing at the target, and the target should be central in the bore.

Without touching the gun, look through the scope. It should be lined up on target. Back magnification to lowest. If its NOT lines up, dial turrets until it lines up.

Go back and verify bore-sight is good. Repeat process until bore and scope are aligned as best you can.

I can do this in under 1min at 100 no issue (i used to do it like 3 times a week for customers).

Have a go, let us jnow how it goes. 25m first shots (or 50m if you are brave enough) and you should print on A4 paper.

Good luck.


Edit..

 

[Makinchips208]

Could it be the scope has too much clearance above the barrel? I’m using warne 30mm medium rings

Also it is a 0moa rail

Is the zero stop causing a problem?

If that doesn’t work, try switching the warne rings with each other.

Lastly, remove the bolt,
Set gun on stable position,
Look through the bore,
Without moving the gun, adjust the scope till it roughly align with what you see through the bore.

 

[vh20]

Also, check to see if the rail is 0 MOA or 20 MOA. A 20 MOA rail should be zeroed at 200 yards. If you try to zero at 100, you run into that problem.

What??

 

[SanPatHogger]

Also, check to see if the rail is 0 MOA or 20 MOA. A 20 MOA rail should be zeroed at 200 yards. If you try to zero at 100, you run into that problem. If not that and torque is not a problem, then send it in for warranty. I hear their warranty is good. Also, you will need some Vibra Tite for the turrets. Those set screws will back themselves out and you are left with spinning dials.

I have a 100 yard zero on my 243 with a 50moa base
I have a 50 yard zero on my 22 with a 30moa base and 20moa mount =50 moa

 

[Holliday]

Also, check to see if the rail is 0 MOA or 20 MOA. A 20 MOA rail should be zeroed at 200 yards. If you try to zero at 100, you run into that problem. If not that and torque is not a problem, then send it in for warranty. I hear their warranty is good. Also, you will need some Vibra Tite for the turrets. Those set screws will back themselves out and you are left with spinning dials.

 

[nn8734]

Also, check to see if the rail is 0 MOA or 20 MOA. A 20 MOA rail should be zeroed at 200 yards. If you try to zero at 100, you run into that problem. If not that and torque is not a problem, then send it in for warranty. I hear their warranty is good. Also, you will need some Vibra Tite for the turrets. Those set screws will back themselves out and you are left with spinning dials.

 

[Zmu23]

Is the zero stop causing a problem?
Also, is there a windage limiter preventing full usage of the windage?

If that doesn’t work, try switching the warne rings with each other.

Lastly, remove the bolt,
Set gun on stable position,
Look through the bore,
Without moving the gun, adjust the scope till it roughly align with what you see through the bore.

Yah I’m gonna try it one last time tomorrow before I send it back. I don’t think there’s a windage limiter but to be transparent I’m not sure what that means

 

[Terry Cross]

Is the zero stop causing a problem?

He said the issue is 3 mils worth of windage out of zero. Zero stop doesn't play on that axis so, No.

.

 

[Makinchips208]

Yah I’m gonna try it one last time tomorrow before I send it back. I don’t think there’s a windage limiter but to be transparent I’m not sure what that means

Well I don’t know about this brand.
@Terry Cross

For example, some of the NF atacr models will only allow 15 moa of windage left or right before it hits a stop or limiter, but can adjust 60moa/17mrad total windage.

Just a thought.

 

[Steel+Killer]

Take that laser boresighter and throw it in the trash you don't need those things and when you forget to take it out the barrel and shoot you can thank me later.

First obviously check that your scope is mounted properly then make sure your scope is at its mechanical/default zero.

Get a few cheap poster boards usually they are 22" x 28" set it up at 100yds and put one aiming point / dot in the center.

If your scope is mounted properly and nothing is wrong with your rifle you should have no problem hitting somewhere on the poster board even at 100 yds. From there you can see the difference between your point of aim vs your point of impact and adjust according. You can bring it in closer if you need to, but I have never had a problem being on a 22" x 28" poster board at 100yds when scope was mounted correctly. I see people fool around all the time with these gimickly bore sighters and all they really need to do is just start with a target bigger than what most so called "sighting targets" are.

Anyway good luck!

Edit: Wanted to add that if you do happen to not be on a 22" x 28" poster board at 100yds you if you can try to notice the impact you can use the corners as the point of aim and really have a "huge board" Example: You shoot and think/notice the bullet hit maybe a little high and to the right of the board. Then my next shot I would aim at the bottom left corner of the board. If you were to shoot at all four corners of a 22" x 28" poster board that would be like shooting at a 44" x 56" board and if you can't hit that something is terribly wrong..... All it should take is 5 rounds max to know where you are using that method.

 

[Makinchips208]

He said the issue is 3 mils worth of windage out of zero. Zero stop doesn't play on that axis so, No.

.

Maybe night shift made that set of rings?

 

[Terry Cross]

Maybe night shift made that set of rings?

You are not wrong with going down that fork in the road or at least eliminating it early on.

I think that or something else to do with the base/ring/scope connections would be my first thing to inspect.
I have seen some crazy stuff manufactured out of spec but also some really obvious installation boo boos by the users like rings not seated evenly onto the Pic rail, etc.

 

[Makinchips208]

You are not wrong with going down that fork in the road or at least eliminating it early on.

I think that or something else to do with the base/ring/scope connections would be my first thing to inspect.
I have seen some crazy stuff manufactured out of spec but also some really obvious installation boo boos by the users like rings not seated evenly onto the Pic rail, etc.

Yeah, that’s more likely than scope being that far off. But it all happens.

 

[Aftermath]

First, center your dials. Turn them as far as you can in one direction. Then count rotations and/or clicks as you turn the dial the other direction. Then go back half that rotation.

Then, loosen the ring to rail/mount bolts and push the scope forward on the rail/mount and torque to spec as you continue to push the scope toward the muzzle.

Next, loosen the ring bolts that squeeze it together on the scope and then retorque. I'd do this one ring at a time so I don't have to relevel the scope in the rings.

Turn the zoom to minimum.

Set up a target 25 yards away with a nice big visible dot and view it THROUGH THE BORE OF THE RIFLE. Lock that rifle in place so it doesn't move. Recheck to see if you can still see the dot through the bore. Now, carefully look through the scope. You should see the target and it should be pretty much centered in your view. CAREFULLY operate the turrets so the crosshair is now centered on the target.

Shoot at that target 3 times.

If you are still not on paper, put that other scope back on and see what happens. If all is good, return the shitty scope.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

My money is on you turning your turrets the wrong way while you’re using the stupid bore sight tool. The left, right, up, and down markings are bullet impact which is the opposite direction of movement of reticle direction.

 

[Ronws]

@nn8734
@Holliday
@vh20

People smarter and with way more experience than I have say that it is best to zero a scope on a 20 MOA rail at 200 yards in order to have more rotation available. Not that it was the problem this time but it was worth asking.

Can you zero a 20 MOA rail at 100 yards? Sure.

If possible, can you explain to me why these other sources are wrong? All I can do is learn.

Rifle Scopes - Zeroing Rifle with 20 MOA Rail

Long story short I'll be pushing my ranges out next Spring and when I added my new scope (50 MOA total elevation travel) and got it zero'd at 100 with a laser cartridge I ended up using 20+ MOA of potential elevation to get it zero'd leaving me with only roughly 25 MOA of up elevation. So, I...

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[Holliday]

@nn8734
@Holliday
@vh20

People smarter and with way more experience than I have say that it is best to zero a scope on a 20 MOA rail at 200 yards in order to have more rotation available. Not that it was the problem this time but it was worth asking.

The OP appears to be complaining about a windage issue. Irrespective of other opinions regarding elevation, I don't see the correlation to the OP’s issue.

 

[vh20]

@nn8734
@Holliday
@vh20

People smarter and with way more experience than I have say that it is best to zero a scope on a 20 MOA rail at 200 yards in order to have more rotation available. Not that it was the problem this time but it was worth asking.

Let’s start with understanding that zeroing at 200 does NOT give you more rotation available.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

@nn8734
@Holliday
@vh20

People smarter and with way more experience than I have say that it is best to zero a scope on a 20 MOA rail at 200 yards in order to have more rotation available. Not that it was the problem this time but it was worth asking.

Can you zero a 20 MOA rail at 100 yards? Sure.

If possible, can you explain to me why these other sources are wrong? All I can do is learn.

Rifle Scopes - Zeroing Rifle with 20 MOA Rail

Long story short I'll be pushing my ranges out next Spring and when I added my new scope (50 MOA total elevation travel) and got it zero'd at 100 with a laser cartridge I ended up using 20+ MOA of potential elevation to get it zero'd leaving me with only roughly 25 MOA of up elevation. So, I...

www.snipershide.com

or

0 VS 20 MOA Explained - For Precision Shooting

This article explains in-depth difference between 0 vs 20 MOA scope base. How to use them and How it benefits long range shooting. Click here to read more

www.badassoptic.com

or

20 MOA Explained

There are many misconceptions in the world about what a 20MOA base does. Many of those misconceptions stem from perceptions about what a 20MOA base is capable of providing, and when it is needed on a rifle. Many shooters who want to shoot long range automatically assume they need a 20MOA...

warnescopemounts.com

or

MOA FAQs

www.egwguns.com

You’re smoking more than brisket if you think this dude needs to go to 200 yards when he can’t even get on paper at 25, 50, and 100.

I swear people post some of the most retarded shit on here.

 

[LRRPF52]

Also, check to see if the rail is 0 MOA or 20 MOA. A 20 MOA rail should be zeroed at 200 yards. If you try to zero at 100, you run into that problem. If not that and torque is not a problem, then send it in for warranty. I hear their warranty is good. Also, you will need some Vibra Tite for the turrets. Those set screws will back themselves out and you are left with spinning dials.

I’ve been zeroing optics on 20 MOA bases and mounts at 100yds for the better part of the last 2 decades since they became a thing. This is the first time I recall someone saying you should zero 20 MOA base optics at 200yds. There’s plenty of elevation travel in a decent rifle scope to zero at 100 with a 20 MOA slope base.

For the OP, he started out with a working solution with the previous scope zeroed and confirmed out to 500yds no problem, then switched scopes and can’t zero. It appears the only variable here is the new scope.

 

[NiteQwill]

@nn8734
@Holliday
@vh20

People smarter and with way more experience than I have say that it is best to zero a scope on a 20 MOA rail at 200 yards in order to have more rotation available. Not that it was the problem this time but it was worth asking.

Can you zero a 20 MOA rail at 100 yards? Sure.

If possible, can you explain to me why these other sources are wrong? All I can do is learn.

Rifle Scopes - Zeroing Rifle with 20 MOA Rail

Long story short I'll be pushing my ranges out next Spring and when I added my new scope (50 MOA total elevation travel) and got it zero'd at 100 with a laser cartridge I ended up using 20+ MOA of potential elevation to get it zero'd leaving me with only roughly 25 MOA of up elevation. So, I...

www.snipershide.com

or

0 VS 20 MOA Explained - For Precision Shooting

This article explains in-depth difference between 0 vs 20 MOA scope base. How to use them and How it benefits long range shooting. Click here to read more

www.badassoptic.com

or

20 MOA Explained

There are many misconceptions in the world about what a 20MOA base does. Many of those misconceptions stem from perceptions about what a 20MOA base is capable of providing, and when it is needed on a rifle. Many shooters who want to shoot long range automatically assume they need a 20MOA...

warnescopemounts.com

or

MOA FAQs

www.egwguns.com

You could have stopped at your first post. But now you're way behind and adding more to fire.

Many (lots) of people have 40 MOA total into our rifles and zero just fine at 100 yards.

 

[Megalodong]

People smarter and with way more experience than I have say that it is best to zero a scope on a 20 MOA rail at 200 yards in order to have more rotation available.

Lol. No, no they aren’t. It’s actually entirely the opposite. The first thread you posted is full of people calling zeroing at 200 stupid also.

EGW the rail of choice, only if absolutely no other company at all offers a rail for your gun.

And an entire site that looks like it was AI generated with the article you listed written by “Ying”.

Warne says a big fat “maybe” it’s needed.



I will give you props for the confidence you delivered the incredibly wrong info with. I guess that’s worth something

 

[hlee]

@nn8734
@Holliday
@vh20

People smarter and with way more experience than I have say that it is best to zero a scope on a 20 MOA rail at 200 yards in order to have more rotation available. Not that it was the problem this time but it was worth asking.

Can you zero a 20 MOA rail at 100 yards? Sure.

If possible, can you explain to me why these other sources are wrong? All I can do is learn.

Rifle Scopes - Zeroing Rifle with 20 MOA Rail

Long story short I'll be pushing my ranges out next Spring and when I added my new scope (50 MOA total elevation travel) and got it zero'd at 100 with a laser cartridge I ended up using 20+ MOA of potential elevation to get it zero'd leaving me with only roughly 25 MOA of up elevation. So, I...

www.snipershide.com

or

0 VS 20 MOA Explained - For Precision Shooting

This article explains in-depth difference between 0 vs 20 MOA scope base. How to use them and How it benefits long range shooting. Click here to read more

www.badassoptic.com

or

20 MOA Explained

There are many misconceptions in the world about what a 20MOA base does. Many of those misconceptions stem from perceptions about what a 20MOA base is capable of providing, and when it is needed on a rifle. Many shooters who want to shoot long range automatically assume they need a 20MOA...

warnescopemounts.com

or

MOA FAQs

www.egwguns.com

Zeroing at 100 yards (with a centerfire rifle and typical bottleneck cartridges) is sort of a magic distance where elevation adjustments are always “up.” Shooting at 25 yards? Dial up. Shooting at 600 yards? Dial up. Dialing up for some distances and down for others (relative to the zero distance) can be confusing.

It is also the furthest distance at which a light wind can be “effectively” ignored for zeroing purposes. A 6 mph gun, which most 6.5 CM class rifles are, will experience a ~0.1 mil wind deviation at 100 yards in a 6 mph wind. Wind in the 2-3mph range is within your ability to dial, and can be mostly ignored.

Finally, most rifle ranges will have a 100 yard range, while 200 will be less common.

 

[308pirate]

it is shooting about 3 mil’s to the right and I’m out of windage on the turrets. It’s also shooting high and I’m almost out of elevation.

It sounds like you're tuning the turrets backwards.

Turning the elevation CCW makes the point of impact go up. Do that if the point of impact is below the point of aim. Turn it CW if the point of impact is above the point of aim.

Windage is the same. CCW to move the point of impact to the right.

 

[Gil P.]

@nn8734
@Holliday
@vh20

People smarter and with way more experience than I have say that it is best to zero a scope on a 20 MOA rail at 200 yards in order to have more rotation available. Not that it was the problem this time but it was worth asking.

Can you zero a 20 MOA rail at 100 yards? Sure.

If possible, can you explain to me why these other sources are wrong? All I can do is learn.

Rifle Scopes - Zeroing Rifle with 20 MOA Rail

Long story short I'll be pushing my ranges out next Spring and when I added my new scope (50 MOA total elevation travel) and got it zero'd at 100 with a laser cartridge I ended up using 20+ MOA of potential elevation to get it zero'd leaving me with only roughly 25 MOA of up elevation. So, I...

www.snipershide.com

or

0 VS 20 MOA Explained - For Precision Shooting

This article explains in-depth difference between 0 vs 20 MOA scope base. How to use them and How it benefits long range shooting. Click here to read more

www.badassoptic.com

or

20 MOA Explained

There are many misconceptions in the world about what a 20MOA base does. Many of those misconceptions stem from perceptions about what a 20MOA base is capable of providing, and when it is needed on a rifle. Many shooters who want to shoot long range automatically assume they need a 20MOA...

warnescopemounts.com

or

MOA FAQs

www.egwguns.com

OP, dont listen to this retard.

 

[Ronws]

Zeroing at 100 yards (with a centerfire rifle and typical bottleneck cartridges) is sort of a magic distance where elevation adjustments are always “up.” Shooting at 25 yards? Dial up. Shooting at 600 yards? Dial up. Dialing up for some distances and down for others (relative to the zero distance) can be confusing.

It is also the furthest distance at which a light wind can be “effectively” ignored for zeroing purposes. A 6 mph gun, which most 6.5 CM class rifles are, will experience a ~0.1 mil wind deviation at 100 yards in a 6 mph wind. Wind in the 2-3mph range is within your ability to dial, and can be mostly ignored.

Finally, most rifle ranges will have a 100 yard range, while 200 will be less common.

I have a 0 MOA rail and zero at 100 yard and I hunt mostly in the 100 to 200 yard distance because of the land I use to hunt.

As for the thing about 20 MOA rails being zeroed at 200 yards, the first place I ever read that was EGW, which, of course, now I know is supposed to the only better than an actual pile of feces.

And that plenty of guys have 40 MOA rails and have zeroed at 100 yards. It was said so here in this thread and I have now learned something new.

I believe I said earlier, I can always learn.

 

[308pirate]

Also, check to see if the rail is 0 MOA or 20 MOA. A 20 MOA rail should be zeroed at 200 yards. If you try to zero at 100, you run into that problem

Oh please dear God make it stop

 

[308pirate]

I have a 0 MOA rail and zero at 100 yard and I hunt mostly in the 100 to 200 yard distance because of the land I use to hunt.

As for the thing about 20 MOA rails being zeroed at 200 yards, the first place I ever read that was EGW, which, of course, now I know is supposed to the only better than an actual pile of feces.

And that plenty of guys have 40 MOA rails and have zeroed at 100 yards. It was said so here in this thread and I have now learned something new.

I believe I said earlier, I can always learn.

Well you're never going to learn if all you do is keep defending your gross conceptual error by telling us where you learned your gross conceptual error.

 

[Ronws]

OP, dont listen to this retard.

OP, please don't let behavior like this scare turn you off. Honestly, there are people here who can teaching things without the attitude.

 

[nn8734]

People smarter and with way more experience than I have say that it is best to zero a scope on a 20 MOA rail at 200 yards in order to have more rotation available.

Who all told you that stupid fucking shit?

Name every one of these people here so that we all know who they are.

 

[Ronws]

Who all told you that stupid fucking shit?

Name every one of these people here so that we all know who they are.

I already listed some of the sources. But I am done with it and stand corrected.

 

[nn8734]

I already listed some of the sources. But I am done with it and stand corrected.

You're crazy if you think i'd waste my time digging through three fucking threads worth of shit looking for the alleged retards ...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

OP, please don't let behavior like this scare turn you off. Honestly, there are people here who can teaching things without the attitude.

Hopefully it scares him off from listening to anything you post on the future. You said some dumb fucking shit and got called on it. Own it, move on, and be less dumb or STFU if you can’t.

 

[308plinker]

Bore scope the rifle, with your Eyeball, close! Do this on a bench or prone with bipod/bag. The rifle needs to remain relatively still thru this process.
Get turrets back to 0/0. To do this crank elevation and windage in one direction until they stop. If you know how much travel your scope has…..see the box and/or manual. Dial the minutes or mils back to 0. If you don’t know the total travel, Go from one end of the full travel to the other for each turret. Either count the minutes/mils visually to get total travel, or literally count the clicks, then dial halfway back the opposite direction. Knowing your windage/elevation travel is pretty important btw. My recommendation, get those values and validate before you start.
Once you’re centered, pull bolt, line up bore with center of your “close” target.
Raise your head up to the reticle, without moving the rig!
Reticle should be on paper if you’re at 20-30 yards. That’s pretty damn close btw.
From there, dial your reticle to center of target, fire a round.
Then chase your impact with your ret. In other words, reset to the center of target after that initial round, then dial your reticle to the hole you just made.
Make sure this target is easy to see, and is at least 24”x24”.
If your reticle isn’t on paper after using your eyeball to center up bore on target, re-validate your 0/0 on elevation/windage, then try again.
This is a very simple process, don’t overthink it……..

 

[308pirate]

This is a very simple process, don’t overthink it……..

It is until nobody tells the new guy that, when boresighting by lining up the poi with the bore, the turrets work backwards from what the ignorant would think.

If the target is centered in the bore and it is above the reticle center when viewed through the scope, the elevation turret has to be dialed DOWN to bring the reticle UP into the center of the target image.

 

[hkguns]

Read more post less is the best advice I can give here. This isn't aimed at the OP either, so don't take it that way.