Carbine Optic - CD Team Safari

[kthomas]

I'm seriously looking at shooting the CD Team Safari match for the first time this year, and need some optics advice.

Since my partner is most likely going to be coming from the UK, I'll be the carbine guy (not my usual cup of tea, but love a challenge and expanding my skillset). I have a KAC SR15 Mod1 that I will most likely use, in the 16" configuration. Currently it has a T1 Micro on it, which doesn't seem suitable for this kind of match.

So, what's a good optic to pair with that carbine for a match like the Steel Safari? I welcome recommendations from all budget levels so I can get an understanding of what's out there.

 

[longshot2000]

I am not familiar with the match. Can you tell me about the targets and whether you are walking and taking a shot, or in set positions?

I am thinking LPVO type optics, but some are heavier than others and some have larger eyeboxes. Range will be important. I have a handful in mind.

 

[Wrongtarget]

3x18. Will work for both assault and field stages. Guys from my team used a tremor reticle on gas gun to tell rifle shooter what wind speed they hit with. Worked well for them as they placed second.

 

[kthomas]

I am not familiar with the match. Can you tell me about the targets and whether you are walking and taking a shot, or in set positions?

I am thinking LPVO type optics, but some are heavier than others and some have larger eyeboxes. Range will be important. I have a handful in mind.

Here's CD's write-up of what the match entails:

2023 ACCUFIRE TEAM SAFARI - COMPETITION DYNAMICS

competition-dynamics.com

 

[kthomas]

3x18. Will work for both assault and field stages. Guys from my team used a tremor reticle on gas gun to tell rifle shooter what wind speed they hit with. Worked well for them as they placed second.

Is a 3-18 the norm for this?

 

[Wrongtarget]

Is a 3-18 the norm for this?

Seems like it for the carbine shooter. You can get away with 5 x 25 but assault stages can have 30 yard shots etc. Field stages can reach out to 950. Once there was 1450. Having a reticle for corrections is nice. I would steer away from 1 x 8 types. When I’ve ro’d other shooters they have struggled with that setup when making corrections on small targets.

 

[dgheriani]

You want a 3-18 or a 4-20/5-25 with an offset red dot. Like Wrongtarget said, that's kinda the norm. I've only shot BOTC and Team Safari but there wasn't anything in either of those 2 matches where a 3-18 wouldn't work (I never went over 16x on my bolt gun) but if you like more mag, go for it. None of the assault stages this past year would give you trouble with a low end of 3-5 (in fact I don't recall any short range carbine?) but I think that varies from year to year. I imagine 3x on the low end would be fine but you can be safe and run an offset red dot on a 4 or 5x. Definitely don't run an LPVO. The gas gunner's main job is feeding a good wind call to the bolt gunner so you want something with a precision oriented reticle.

 

[Yoteski]

3-18 with offset red dot is probably where it's at. I've only shot as the bolt gunner, but we've had stages at BOTC where it was 5 yard engagements with the carbine where an offset red dot would have been handy. You'll want something you can shoot offhand quickly in any case.

 

[Scwalker83]

A scope that you set zero for 300 yards and hose your 3 targets to gtfo of the way for your bolt gunner. You hold over under and walk it in, almost never dial, in the process of hosing you get the wind for your bolt gunner.

To clarify on the 300 yard zero, scope is set for a 100 yard zero but normally we will just start stage with 1.5 or so mil dialed in on elevation. Just hold under or over from there.

If you are the gas gunner and are dialing you are going to be wrong 99% of the time. Your teammate doesn't have time for that.

I play the bolt gunner and my friend does the gas, we both use a zco 5 27. We have have multiple top 10 and two top 5 finishes.

 

[TheGerman]

Fuck scopes and fuck offsets.

What's your anticipated range?

 

[dirtybores]

I shot Team Safari once. My partner did really well with a 3-10x40 Mildot on a rifle very similar to yours. With the carbine guy getting to take as many shots as they want to spot/correct, and them generally going after the nearest 3 targets...don't overscope.

PM me, and I'll put you in touch with him.

 

[Chuck_Thunder]

You want a 3-18 or a 4-20/5-25 with an offset red dot. Like Wrongtarget said, that's kinda the norm. I've only shot BOTC and Team Safari but there wasn't anything in either of those 2 matches where a 3-18 wouldn't work (I never went over 16x on my bolt gun) but if you like more mag, go for it. None of the assault stages this past year would give you trouble with a low end of 3-5 (in fact I don't recall any short range carbine?) but I think that varies from year to year. I imagine 3x on the low end would be fine but you can be safe and run an offset red dot on a 4 or 5x. Definitely don't run an LPVO. The gas gunner's main job is feeding a good wind call to the bolt gunner so you want something with a precision oriented reticle.

This is solid advice. I like a 5x25 personally for gas-gunner as you can zoom in on the suspected target to discern if it's a shadow/rock or in fact a target.
Finding targets is tricky at this match... (but it's a ton of fun)

 

[kthomas]

Rather than buying a whole new optic, I suppose I can scavenge a K624i off of one of my bolt guns and run an offset red dot, both of which I currently have.

 

[dgheriani]

Rather than buying a whole new optic, I suppose I can scavenge a K624i off of one of my bolt guns and run an offset red dot, both of which I currently have.

Yeah dude, that's the easy route. Especially if you aren't necessarily gonna keep that AR in a precision configuration.

 

[just browsing]

A scope that you set zero for 300 yards and hose your 3 targets to gtfo of the way for your bolt gunner. You hold over under and walk it in, almost never dial, in the process of hosing you get the wind for your bolt gunner.

To clarify on the 300 yard zero, scope is set for a 100 yard zero but normally we will just start stage with 1.5 or so mil dialed in on elevation. Just hold under or over from there.

If you are the gas gunner and are dialing you are going to be wrong 99% of the time. Your teammate doesn't have time for that.

I play the bolt gunner and my friend does the gas, we both use a zco 5 27. We have have multiple top 10 and two top 5 finishes.

Best advice in here.

 

[dgheriani]

A scope that you set zero for 300 yards and hose your 3 targets to gtfo of the way for your bolt gunner. You hold over under and walk it in, almost never dial, in the process of hosing you get the wind for your bolt gunner.

To clarify on the 300 yard zero, scope is set for a 100 yard zero but normally we will just start stage with 1.5 or so mil dialed in on elevation. Just hold under or over from there.

If you are the gas gunner and are dialing you are going to be wrong 99% of the time. Your teammate doesn't have time for that.

I play the bolt gunner and my friend does the gas, we both use a zco 5 27. We have have multiple top 10 and two top 5 finishes.

It's really interesting to me how many different ways there are to successfully approach BOTC and TS stages. For BOTC, my gas gunner dialled every target and that worked out really well for us. Basically used the gas gun like a bolt gun. We'd both scan for targets till we had 4 out of 8 located and ranged then he'd go to work while I kept scanning for targets. We always had tons of time left and we placed very well.

Used the same approach at TS with a much less experienced gas gunner and did mediocre. I often ended up with a minute or so to make all my 6 shots. Saw guys who would get the gas gunner on the gun before even finding a single target. Bolt gunner would find and range them all and talk the gas gunner on to them. Thought that was an interesting approach. Your approach is interesting as well. Ultimately, I think going forward I'd approach each stage with an open mind to use any variation of these methods depending on the layout of the particular stage instead of staying wedded to a single methodology. The adaptation on the fly is part of what makes these matches so cool and challenging.

 

[kthomas]

Fuck scopes and fuck offsets.

What's your anticipated range?

I haven't shot this match yet, so others can correct me.

But from the match write-up it states carbine targets are from 100 to 500 yards. However, I've heard that targets are sometimes farther than what is listed.

Apparently there's also close up "assault stages" where the targets will be much closer.

 

[powdahound76]

@kthomas

Talk to @D_TROS

He knows whats up on these too.
And in my experience, is a top notch SOB to help a guy out with learning and such.

He is busy as crap right now, big NRL match he is MD of next weekend and a large fundraiser in the Pit for a brother in need.

 

[dgheriani]

I haven't shot this match yet, so others can correct me.

But from the match write-up it states carbine targets are from 100 to 500 yards. However, I've heard that targets are sometimes farther than what is listed.

Apparently there's also close up "assault stages" where the targets will be much closer.

Normally you can choose to engage the closer targets with your carbine (it's either 6 targets 1 position or 3 targets 2 positions) but on the 2 by 3s you don't get a choice. This year had a 2x3 with 3 targets around 850, iirc. You'll also sometimes want to shoot some of the farther targets to get a good wind call for the bolt gunner, especially if the targets are kinda clumped in 2 clusters of 3 targets each in 2 different DOFs. Trust me when I say you need a proper magnified optic, haha. Ask that @D_TROS guy, he's ok, I guess