Carbon wrapping a Barrel

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: braso</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run two different rifles with carbon wrapped Saturn barrels. One 243 and one 284. I have delt only with KK Jense of Jense Precision, at this time he is ABS. I have had extremely great service from him and both rifles shoot .25 moa or better. In my experience with these carbon barrels I have had no harmonic issues any more than any other steel barrel. I have found that they do indeed cool faster than my steel barrels, and they like the heat, during long strings of fire the zero just seems to get tighter. I have 1200+ rounds through the 284 and so far the lands haven't moved, I can't wait to see what the barrel life ends up at. If you have any tech questions I suggest you call Jense Precision. </div></div>

Welcome to the Hide <span style="font-style: italic">Braso</span>.

I'm glad you've had such a great experience but I have a couple of questions.

How do you know you've had no harmonic issues just by shooting the rifles?

What method did you use to determine that the wrapped barrels cooled faster than non-wrapped?

It's pretty well documented that layered CF is not a conductor of heat. This is exactly why the Materials Engineer at Apple opted out of using a patented design for CF cases for the iPhone, iPad and MacBook because the mitigation of heat is basically non-existent. The current Aluminum cases serve to pull heat away from the microprocessors whereas the CF case has proven to be inefficient.

Just curious....

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: varoum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on my experience with carbon fiber and carbon wrapped barrels, the only real advantage is weight savings. If you're looking for a lighter rifle overall, not a bad way to go, but be careful what you buy into....OBOPE (opinion based on personal experience)</div></div>


Be careful of what? What are the personnal experiences with Christianson and ABS barrels? What went wrong? </div></div>

I wouldn't say anything "went wrong." The Christensen rifles were not built in my shop, so I can't say the large groups were totally attributed to the barrel.

The ABS barrels shoot very well, and the appearance is appealing, but there's nothing magical about them. The rifles I used ABS barrels on were built in my shop, and there is a noticeable weight advantage, which is certainly attractive.

I've already stated my experience with bleeding resin and LF chatter and I've not seen the cooling occur "300 times faster than steel." There's also another claim that they cool 3.7 times faster. I've read the patent and looked at the cross-section drawing, but there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

Basically, I've never been a fan of technology that looks for a problem and I haven't seen any issues in an all steel barrel (other than weight) that's cured by a wrapped barrel. They certainly have their place within certain build requirements but I'd like to see a bit more substantiating data that backs up the very tall and varied claims. I have at least two more wrapped barrels to test over the coming weeks.

 

[c1steve]

Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: varoum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on my experience with carbon fiber and carbon wrapped barrels, the only real advantage is weight savings. If you're looking for a lighter rifle overall, not a bad way to go, but be careful what you buy into....OBOPE (opinion based on personal experience)</div></div>


Be careful of what? What are the personnal experiences with Christianson and ABS barrels? What went wrong? </div></div>

I wouldn't say anything "went wrong." The Christensen rifles were not built in my shop, so I can't say the large groups were totally attributed to the barrel.

The ABS barrels shoot very well, and the appearance is appealing, but there's nothing magical about them. The rifles I used ABS barrels on were built in my shop, and there is a noticeable weight advantage, which is certainly attractive.

I've already stated my experience with bleeding resin and LF chatter and I've not seen the cooling occur "300 times faster than steel." There's also another claim that they cool 3.7 times faster. I've read the patent and looked at the cross-section drawing, but there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

Basically, I've never been a fan of technology that looks for a problem and I haven't seen any issues in an all steel barrel (other than weight) that's cured by a wrapped barrel. They certainly have their place within certain build requirements but I'd like to see a bit more substantiating data that backs up the very tall and varied claims. I have at least two more wrapped barrels to test over the coming weeks. </div></div>

It would be most interesting if you could run the barrels hot, and test for throat wear. If a 243 barrel could go for 2,000-3,000 rounds, and maintain precision accuracy, that would be a big advantage.

 

[rwest309]

Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel

My smith has had nothing but good luck with abs wrapped bbls. Got a 7mm and 6.5mm last year through the rock creek group buy and he has 4 .338 bbls and 2 7mm bbls in his shop now for builds that are in progress. I shot the 7 ultra and 6.5-284 he built with the rock bbls last year and both were sub .5 moa guns. I hope the broughtons he got this year are the same way as one ofmthe 338 bbls is mine. It will be chambered in 338 lm and screwed to a badger m2008 action in a manners t4a with a surefire brake The barreled action is complete just waiting on the stock, a trigger, and the brake. I will snap some pics of the bbled action next time I am at the shop. He has a 7-375 h&h complete right now on a barnard action in a t5a. There will be 3 badger actioned manners stocked 338 lm and one surgeon actioned 7 ultra in a manners t4a when it's all said and done. The wait was not that bad for the barrels and mike and tim north were great at answering phone calls and emails about the custom contouring for the surefire brakes. On the customer side of this deal I am thoroughly pleased with abs product and customer service. The barrels were received about 2 months ago so my experience is pretty recent. Public thank you to mike at abs for his excellent work, communication, and quick turnaround. Now I have to stay on tim clicks ass to get these boomers finished in time for elk season in Wyoming. October 15 will be here sooner than he thinks.

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c1steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: varoum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on my experience with carbon fiber and carbon wrapped barrels, the only real advantage is weight savings. If you're looking for a lighter rifle overall, not a bad way to go, but be careful what you buy into....OBOPE (opinion based on personal experience)</div></div>


Be careful of what? What are the personnal experiences with Christianson and ABS barrels? What went wrong? </div></div>

I wouldn't say anything "went wrong." The Christensen rifles were not built in my shop, so I can't say the large groups were totally attributed to the barrel.

The ABS barrels shoot very well, and the appearance is appealing, but there's nothing magical about them. The rifles I used ABS barrels on were built in my shop, and there is a noticeable weight advantage, which is certainly attractive.

I've already stated my experience with bleeding resin and LF chatter and I've not seen the cooling occur "300 times faster than steel." There's also another claim that they cool 3.7 times faster. I've read the patent and looked at the cross-section drawing, but there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

Basically, I've never been a fan of technology that looks for a problem and I haven't seen any issues in an all steel barrel (other than weight) that's cured by a wrapped barrel. They certainly have their place within certain build requirements but I'd like to see a bit more substantiating data that backs up the very tall and varied claims. I have at least two more wrapped barrels to test over the coming weeks. </div></div>

It would be most interesting if you could run the barrels hot, and test for throat wear. If a 243 barrel could go for 2,000-3,000 rounds, and maintain precision accuracy, that would be a big advantage.
</div></div>

Absolutely and I would expect the wear rate to be very good, as the blanks used by ABS are high quality. The Broughton blanks should have a slight edge in this area as the bore is a bit harder than other makers.

 

[varoum]

Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel

Mike we are waiting your findings.

 

[braso]

Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel

Skunkworks asked: What method did you use to determine that the wrapped barrels cooled faster than non-wrapped?

I used a digital pyrometer, used to use it to measure tire temp. on a sprint car and track temp. About an 8" long probe that can be inserted in the chamber or muzzle. also physical touch. I didn't record, calculate, time, or document, just oserved a side by side comparison to see for my own skeptical self


Skunkworks asked: How do you know you've had no harmonic issues just by shooting the rifles?

was it difficult to tune a loaded round to a harmonic node of the barrel? NO, it was not. I've had barrels that just never seem to find a happy area. Maybe your going somwhere else talking of harmonics but thats just my take on it, sorry if I misunderstod, I wasn't trying to spin balance it for a drive line or something.

Skunkworks says: The current Aluminum cases serve to pull heat away from the microprocessors whereas the CF case has proven to be inefficient.

can't argue with that, I haven't seen proof with my own eyes so I guess I'll just have to take they're word for it,

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: braso</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Skunkworks asked: What method did you use to determine that the wrapped barrels cooled faster than non-wrapped?

I used a digital pyrometer, used to use it to measure tire temp. on a sprint car and track temp. About an 8" long probe that can be inserted in the chamber or muzzle. also physical touch. I didn't record, calculate, time, or document, just oserved a side by side comparison to see for my own skeptical self


Skunkworks asked: How do you know you've had no harmonic issues just by shooting the rifles?

was it difficult to tune a loaded round to a harmonic node of the barrel? NO, it was not. I've had barrels that just never seem to find a happy area. Maybe your going somwhere else talking of harmonics but thats just my take on it, sorry if I misunderstod, I wasn't trying to spin balance it for a drive line or something.

Skunkworks says: The current Aluminum cases serve to pull heat away from the microprocessors whereas the CF case has proven to be inefficient.

can't argue with that, I haven't seen proof with my own eyes so I guess I'll just have to take they're word for it, </div></div>

Very Interesting. Care to fill out your profile?

 

[BMG50CAL]

Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel

so whats the word on these barrels now ?

 

[varoum]

Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel

Should get my carbon wrap barrel before Christmas

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so whats the word on these barrels now ? </div></div>

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2805766#Post2805766