Well after 2 trips back and forth to Leupolds warranty department w a Mark 8 1-8 in 4 months I have completely washed my hands of all Leupold products. Mark 8 sold for $1500 nib, Vx-6 1-6 sold for $500 and a Delta Pro for $200..
Rifle Scopes Caution with Leupold scopes
- Thread starter BCX
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My Mark 8 TURD magically had internal debris appear after 3 trips to the range on a 6.5 Grendel. Shortly after the debris I noticed the reticle jumping from left to right while coming from 8x to a lower power. Long story short, 2 trips back to back and Leupold told me they could do nothing for me. Lesson learned on a 3k mark 8...
No pics. The scope held zero no issues w that but I couldn’t deal w a reticle jumping or the free play in the power selector which I believe went hand and hand. I have a Hensoldt and SB both in the FFP and neither have any reticle jump.
Well first time I sent it in on my dime w a detailed letter they cleaned out the debris and sent it back. I opened the box cked it out said wtf and off to the UPS store I went. I had it in my possession less than a hr. Off it went w a detailed letter. Well after 2 trips in 4 months than being told we can’t do anything on your scope you just paid 3k I’m not impressed w there customer service.
Funny the debris looked like brass metal flakes but they couldn’t explain why they were on the lense.
i got one of the last mark 4's for a 260 .. couldnt get it to group for anything... finally changed the scope out.. problem solved
returned to leupold got a e-mail saying they had rec. it (like tuesday at 3 pm) & a e-mail with tracking info thursday morning it was on it way back repaired...
returned to leupold got a e-mail saying they had rec. it (like tuesday at 3 pm) & a e-mail with tracking info thursday morning it was on it way back repaired...
I have had many lower cost Leupolds in the last 26 years. Had to send 3 back and all either were repaired or replaced. I think the cost of repairing or replacing this Tier 1 TURD was out of the question. I have been a loyal customer all these years and than to be told we can do nothing for you. Lesson learned I will stick w my German imports.
I am done with Leupold also.
I sent in my Ultra in for repair due to the turrets being mushy and the clicks not positive.
After a several weeks I get an email directing me to contact customer service.
Sorry we can not repair your scope, but we will give you a new scope to replace it.
That's OK just send it back to me. Sorry we can't do that.
F**k you too!
I sent in my Ultra in for repair due to the turrets being mushy and the clicks not positive.
After a several weeks I get an email directing me to contact customer service.
Sorry we can not repair your scope, but we will give you a new scope to replace it.
That's OK just send it back to me. Sorry we can't do that.
F**k you too!
As I stated before the scope held zero. That’s not why the scope went in for repairs. I have came accross a old Hide post w similar reticle jump in FFP scopes from other manufacturers.
I have been considering a Mark 5 3-18x44 for a couple months. The problems the OP exppresses plus other historical Leupold problems has kept me on the sidelines.
I going to pass on the Leupold buy another NF ATACR 4-16x42
I going to pass on the Leupold buy another NF ATACR 4-16x42
I wouldn't refrain from buying a Leupold because of this post or a few others. Every one of my hunting rifles sports a Leupold and I have not had any problems with any of my mark 8s or Mark 5. This forum tends to hate Leupold and its products. I think everyone needs to keep in mind that Leupold is probably the largest supplier of scopes. Selling that many scopes, you will have some bad ones. Look at Vortex. In the end, it's your money. Buy what you want. Just my two cents.
My Mk6 came from the factory with a canted erector mechanism, I sent it in for repair and it was fixed quickly and returned, and now tracks straight as far as I can measure. No complaints about the warranty service, not thrilled with the initial QC.
FYI im not telling anyone to avoid their product. i have used Leupolds for 26 years and now i have a bad taste in my mouth. life goes on, its only money
Just sharing my experience w THEIR tier 1 scopes!!! LOL
I have briefly searched the threads here on the Hide, as well as Google and this topic of 'FFP Reticle Jump' seems to come up quite often.
In a very short amount of time, I have found numerous threads regarding NF, S&B, Vortex, Bushnell, Kahles, etc. All FFP scopes, where the users are experiencing the same thing. However, if you dig (just a little bit), you will find it is normal for a FFP scope to have what users call 'Reticle Jump'. This is because the reticle is in FRONT of the erector assembly. As you turn the magnification ring, you are moving the lenses between your eye, and the reticle. When you see this 'jump', it is not JUST the reticle, it is the image and the reticle appearing to move and staying in relation to each other which is why you will not see any performance issues such as Point of Impact Shift.
Some scopes will do it more than others, there are tolerances as with anything being manufactured. EVERY FFP will have it, it's just a matter of whether it is noticed. I would venture to guess that in most instances, it's not noticeable unless you are looking at the very edge of your FOV. Or, users don't see any negative impacts to performance so it never gets brought up. Because the Image and the Reticle are 'jumping' relative to each other, there are zero performance impacts.
Links to Threads where this is brought up:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/reticle-shift-when-adjusting-magnification.6535612/
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/reticle-jump-on-ffp-scopes.50201/
In a very short amount of time, I have found numerous threads regarding NF, S&B, Vortex, Bushnell, Kahles, etc. All FFP scopes, where the users are experiencing the same thing. However, if you dig (just a little bit), you will find it is normal for a FFP scope to have what users call 'Reticle Jump'. This is because the reticle is in FRONT of the erector assembly. As you turn the magnification ring, you are moving the lenses between your eye, and the reticle. When you see this 'jump', it is not JUST the reticle, it is the image and the reticle appearing to move and staying in relation to each other which is why you will not see any performance issues such as Point of Impact Shift.
Some scopes will do it more than others, there are tolerances as with anything being manufactured. EVERY FFP will have it, it's just a matter of whether it is noticed. I would venture to guess that in most instances, it's not noticeable unless you are looking at the very edge of your FOV. Or, users don't see any negative impacts to performance so it never gets brought up. Because the Image and the Reticle are 'jumping' relative to each other, there are zero performance impacts.
Links to Threads where this is brought up:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/reticle-shift-when-adjusting-magnification.6535612/
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/reticle-jump-on-ffp-scopes.50201/
I have a second focus NSX that jumps. I considered the issue to be bipod related but it's not. Reticle moves on target.
I think it is a issue for NF to sort.
I think it is a issue for NF to sort.
If your having 'reticle jumping' issues on a SFP scope, this is COMPLETELY different than on a FFP because of the location of the reticle. Just wanted to make sure to keep the two separate.
I have 2 other FFP scopes w no reticle jump. This mark 8 has play in the power selector going from max to a lower power and thats exactly where i had the reticle jump.
So it holds zero, it tracks properly, and they got the debris off the lens, and your only issue, is a very common non-issue? Please go click on the links provided by another member. This has been beaten to death, and you are not the first one to think reticle jump ,when turning the power ring, is an issue on a FFP plane scope. It is not, so Leupold can't fix something that isn't a problem. It just happens.
Long before i got into to tactical scopes i used FFP scopes. 26 years and counting and this is the first issue i have ran into so i don't buy that this is a common issue. I have used Kahles, Zeiss and Swarovski 30mm hunting scopes. SB, NF and Hensoldt tactical scopes.
A dozen ffp scopes and only one had reticle jump. I bet if you did a poll it would prove to be uncommon.
I guess I'm slightly confused.
Leupold cleaned the debris out for you. The Mark 8 tracked, held zero, and performed with no issues. It exhibited a symptom of a FFP, that is in all FFP scopes, and your blasting a company because they told you it was a non-issue. When, at the same time there are plenty of scenarios on other threads where people have had scopes from all sorts of manufactures exhibit the same symptom and those manufactures have told them the same thing Leupold told you, that its a normal behavior of a FFP and it does not affect performance. And. Your mad about that.
The debris in the scope, that's unfortunate, but it sounds like they made that right.
Leupold cleaned the debris out for you. The Mark 8 tracked, held zero, and performed with no issues. It exhibited a symptom of a FFP, that is in all FFP scopes, and your blasting a company because they told you it was a non-issue. When, at the same time there are plenty of scenarios on other threads where people have had scopes from all sorts of manufactures exhibit the same symptom and those manufactures have told them the same thing Leupold told you, that its a normal behavior of a FFP and it does not affect performance. And. Your mad about that.
The debris in the scope, that's unfortunate, but it sounds like they made that right.
You are correct, people able to notice the symptom would likely prove uncommon. But it's still there. Every single one has it. It's not an issue, because it's not an issue. I bet if you took those FFP scopes and paid close attention at the edge of your field of view on a grid target, you would see it. Some may be extremely subtle, others may be less subtle. Regardless, it doesn't affect performance in any way, so if your actually shooting, it doesn't matter.
BUD I'm mad because i dropped 3K on a FFP scope and i expect it to be to my liking! i had to sell it for $1500 because it was very noticeable from 8X down. I have NEVER experienced this w any other FFP scope and if i did that one would be gone also.
That's the thing, it's not a problem to fix. Either you didn't notice it at first, or maybe the debris was in the original erector system which maybe they replaced the erector assembly and this symptom was more noticeable in the new erector? I guess I just don't understand why it matters if it doesn't impact performance.
Trust me i would have noticed. I spend a lot of time behind premium scopes. Between the debris, the power selector that ends up w a dead spot in it, the reticle jump that i believe go hand and hand w the other symptoms . I had paid a premium for a Tier 1 scope i want a tier 1 product. NOT one that after 3 trips to the range has QC issues.
Are you employed or sponsored by Leupold? Do you own any tier 1 scopes? This shouldn't be argument... I am simply posting my recent experience w a product that had issues.
I completely agree. Just let it go man. Leupold seemed to fix your problem and you still aren't happy about it. I guess your eyes just don't like Leupold glass. My eyes don't like Nightforce glass, but I'm not going to say they make bad products. Different strokes for different folks.
To be fair, if you have a giant gash on the side of your Lamborghini, it doesn’t affect its performance. Would you just leave it?
Yes, most FFP optics will have image shift when the lenses in the erector are moving. However when it’s very noticeable, I can see how someone would be put off they spent 3k+ and there’s enough “slop” in the tube to make it noticeable.
It is absolutely “cosmetic,” as the image shift is an eye sore while being behind the rifle and moving the magnification ring.
The noticeable image shift is a product of too much play in the lenses within the erector.
Now, there is question of what is considered acceptable by a manufacturer. I have seen other companies not accept enough play in their erectors that it is noticeable to someone and when it is noticeable, take steps to make sure it is not noticeable.
That is where I would take issue. Leupold should take their most expensive line a bit more seriously as far as tolerances go.
You are correct that image shift is common among FFP, you are wrong that noticeable image shift is not common in high end FFP. It’s still there, but it isn’t as noticeable as the OP is suggesting his was.
I’m not sure how much time you spend behind your high end glass. I spend 6-10 hours a week behind mine. I would not tolerate something that irritated my eye or my mind whilst spending that much time looking at it.
I have had high end NF, Vortex, and S&B. None of them have exhibited enough image shift to be noticeable.
The noticeable image shift is a product of too much play in the lenses within the erector.
Now, there is question of what is considered acceptable by a manufacturer. I have seen other companies not accept enough play in their erectors that it is noticeable to someone and when it is noticeable, take steps to make sure it is not noticeable.
That is where I would take issue. Leupold should take their most expensive line a bit more seriously as far as tolerances go.
You are correct that image shift is common among FFP, you are wrong that noticeable image shift is not common in high end FFP. It’s still there, but it isn’t as noticeable as the OP is suggesting his was.
I’m not sure how much time you spend behind your high end glass. I spend 6-10 hours a week behind mine. I would not tolerate something that irritated my eye or my mind whilst spending that much time looking at it.
I have had high end NF, Vortex, and S&B. None of them have exhibited enough image shift to be noticeable.
Is anyone on this website aware that the Chinese are producing, and selling, counterfeit Leupold products in the USA? This link will take you to a site that shows you how to identify a Chinese knock-off: https://thecounterfeitreport.com/product/162/Leupold-Rifle-Scopes.html
I purchased my first Leupold scope in 1977 and have owned more of them than I can recall. Back when Leupold produced only scopes Leupold was arguably one of the finest scopes available. The Leupold Life Time Guarantee only applies to the Golden Ring line. The majority of their current inventory consists of items covers by a limited warranty. Two years is typical. I purchased a Leupold RX-600 rangefinder. The LED display failed prior to the first battery going dead. It was virtually unused but had passed the warranty expiration date. Sent it in and was told it could not be repaired. It went into the trash. I purchased two Leupold red-dot scopes. One was perfect. The second one had a dot that was really wide and screwy shaped. It was totally useless. I purchased a Leupold VX-R 1.5-5 Firedot scope. The lowest illumination setting was much too bright to use at night. Since I purchased this scope for night shooting; it was completely useless. I also purchased a set of 10X compact binoculars from Leupold. The back and forth focus did not have enough travel to focus at infinity. Each eye would focus to my eyes but the binoculars would not focus at long distance. They were only good for looking at things that were close. Again, a Leupold failure. I have experienced to many Leupold failures to recommend any Leupold products other than the Golden Ring scope line.
The person I spoke with at Leupold informed me that ALL Leupold Rangefinders are produced in China. Knowing this, why buy a Leupold Rangefinder? Personally, I will not purchase any Leupold product that is electronic.
I purchased my first Leupold scope in 1977 and have owned more of them than I can recall. Back when Leupold produced only scopes Leupold was arguably one of the finest scopes available. The Leupold Life Time Guarantee only applies to the Golden Ring line. The majority of their current inventory consists of items covers by a limited warranty. Two years is typical. I purchased a Leupold RX-600 rangefinder. The LED display failed prior to the first battery going dead. It was virtually unused but had passed the warranty expiration date. Sent it in and was told it could not be repaired. It went into the trash. I purchased two Leupold red-dot scopes. One was perfect. The second one had a dot that was really wide and screwy shaped. It was totally useless. I purchased a Leupold VX-R 1.5-5 Firedot scope. The lowest illumination setting was much too bright to use at night. Since I purchased this scope for night shooting; it was completely useless. I also purchased a set of 10X compact binoculars from Leupold. The back and forth focus did not have enough travel to focus at infinity. Each eye would focus to my eyes but the binoculars would not focus at long distance. They were only good for looking at things that were close. Again, a Leupold failure. I have experienced to many Leupold failures to recommend any Leupold products other than the Golden Ring scope line.
The person I spoke with at Leupold informed me that ALL Leupold Rangefinders are produced in China. Knowing this, why buy a Leupold Rangefinder? Personally, I will not purchase any Leupold product that is electronic.
Leupold lifetime warranty applies to everything except electronics, which is a two year warranty.
i looked at a leupold reflex sight...yup...short warrenty on electronics. i solved the problem by buying a vortex sight that has a lifetime warrenty. i had to send in something to vortex once, and there was 100% NO bullshit involved. standing behind something a year, versus lifetime? that is something so simple, even a fumble fuck like me can get the right answer on that one.
i have leupold scopes. would i drop 3k on one? not only “no”, but “HELL FUCK NO”. WAY too many other options out there for that.
to the OP...sorry to hear of your unsat experience. that blows. stuff like this happens, i just learn from it. what else can you do?
i have leupold scopes. would i drop 3k on one? not only “no”, but “HELL FUCK NO”. WAY too many other options out there for that.
to the OP...sorry to hear of your unsat experience. that blows. stuff like this happens, i just learn from it. what else can you do?
A letter from an attorney will have it returned ASAP. It's not their fucking property to keep
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