I looked at a century arms romanian dragunov. How close is this to what the insurgents use? Is this an accuret reliable weapon or a piece of junk replica? The scope seems junky but looks exactly like what the bad guys use. I would buy one if it was the same quality rifle many use in rough combat conditions.
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century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
- Thread starter alfred10
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Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
First off it is not a Dragunov, it is a PSL. There are lots of differences between the two. Both Rifles have been found in the hands of Insurgents. They are both capable DMR rifles but not so much sniper rifles. The biggest factor in accuracy in these comes from the Ammo. The Russian Govt has two "sniper" rounds for these and both are very accurate. However the older rounds can be found from time to time the new improved ammo is not for export from Russia. A true Dragunov will have a milled receiver from a solid block of steel and the PSL is stamped steel. You can expect 1-1.5 MOA results with the Dragunov using The old Russian Federation Sniper round 7N1, the newer round is mysterious but have heard of confirmed kills out to 900 meters with the newer round 7n14.
First off it is not a Dragunov, it is a PSL. There are lots of differences between the two. Both Rifles have been found in the hands of Insurgents. They are both capable DMR rifles but not so much sniper rifles. The biggest factor in accuracy in these comes from the Ammo. The Russian Govt has two "sniper" rounds for these and both are very accurate. However the older rounds can be found from time to time the new improved ammo is not for export from Russia. A true Dragunov will have a milled receiver from a solid block of steel and the PSL is stamped steel. You can expect 1-1.5 MOA results with the Dragunov using The old Russian Federation Sniper round 7N1, the newer round is mysterious but have heard of confirmed kills out to 900 meters with the newer round 7n14.
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
The 7n1 round is very similar in performance to our m118 LR. Typically 2700 FPS BC .498 mind you that this is a 150 grn bullet
The PSL is junk I would not bother with it at all, I have shot both and the PSL can group anywhere from 1.5MOA-4MOA
Reloading is horrible because the Bore of these rifles are .310-.311 depending on year of make. Also the 7.62 54r is a rimmed cartridge that is very inefficient. However I have heard of snipers in russia taking apart rounds and putting better powder and using a filler(ground up wheat, coffee grounds, etc..crazy russians) to get a gain in FPS and accuracy
The 7n1 round is very similar in performance to our m118 LR. Typically 2700 FPS BC .498 mind you that this is a 150 grn bullet
The PSL is junk I would not bother with it at all, I have shot both and the PSL can group anywhere from 1.5MOA-4MOA
Reloading is horrible because the Bore of these rifles are .310-.311 depending on year of make. Also the 7.62 54r is a rimmed cartridge that is very inefficient. However I have heard of snipers in russia taking apart rounds and putting better powder and using a filler(ground up wheat, coffee grounds, etc..crazy russians) to get a gain in FPS and accuracy
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
The PSL scopes are usually IORs, they are BDC set for the 7n1 round and have "zero stop" that is the only descent part of the whole PSL system. The Dragunov can have just about any kind of Russian glass on them. I have seen Mil dot to whatever in the Russian ones. here is a good place to get optics for them http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/
The PSL scopes are usually IORs, they are BDC set for the 7n1 round and have "zero stop" that is the only descent part of the whole PSL system. The Dragunov can have just about any kind of Russian glass on them. I have seen Mil dot to whatever in the Russian ones. here is a good place to get optics for them http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
It's as reliable as any other kalishnikov design. The accuracy leaves alot to be desired. The cost of the psl or whatever century call's it is the same as a rem 700 or a savage 10 series, both of which are much better firearms.
If your really set on a semi auto your halfway to an entry level AR in .308 which in my opinion is also a much better decision. Hell you can buy a saiga in .308 convert it to "dragunov" style stock and be at around the same price as centurys psl. With the saiga you get a russian reciever and its chambered in .308 leaving you plenty of options to find a nice accurate load.
My opinion doesn't count for much seeing as I've never fired a PSL but for the money you could get something alot more useful. Going with the 700 or ar 10 you could get a "Good guy gun" that is both accurate and reliable.
It's as reliable as any other kalishnikov design. The accuracy leaves alot to be desired. The cost of the psl or whatever century call's it is the same as a rem 700 or a savage 10 series, both of which are much better firearms.
If your really set on a semi auto your halfway to an entry level AR in .308 which in my opinion is also a much better decision. Hell you can buy a saiga in .308 convert it to "dragunov" style stock and be at around the same price as centurys psl. With the saiga you get a russian reciever and its chambered in .308 leaving you plenty of options to find a nice accurate load.
My opinion doesn't count for much seeing as I've never fired a PSL but for the money you could get something alot more useful. Going with the 700 or ar 10 you could get a "Good guy gun" that is both accurate and reliable.
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
The PSL-54 rifles are decent enough for what they were designed to do, but they aren't going to win any beauty contests and they aren't likely to win any accuracy contests either. That said, they are very reliable (typical AK-type action). The triggers on some can be gritty, overly heavy and generally piss poor while others aren't too bad (again...for an AK-type rifle). After the usual de-greasing from head to toe, then cleaning, oiling and greasing the gun up in all the right spots...they are okay. Accuracy varies widely depending on the quality of the barrel, etc., but you can expect 3MOA (give or take) for the "typical" example with surplus ammo.
The PSL-54 rifles are decent enough for what they were designed to do, but they aren't going to win any beauty contests and they aren't likely to win any accuracy contests either. That said, they are very reliable (typical AK-type action). The triggers on some can be gritty, overly heavy and generally piss poor while others aren't too bad (again...for an AK-type rifle). After the usual de-greasing from head to toe, then cleaning, oiling and greasing the gun up in all the right spots...they are okay. Accuracy varies widely depending on the quality of the barrel, etc., but you can expect 3MOA (give or take) for the "typical" example with surplus ammo.
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
My PSL isn't too bad (1-1.5moa up to 300m w Czech surplus, 1.5-2moa with PRVI). The IOR scope is easily on par with an upper-end Leupold.
DO NOT use anything but 150gr ammo, you'll break the weapon. I was shooting some S&B 174gr match and was getting pierced primers and had one blow the firing pin out the back of the bolt.
In addition to the 150gr issue, the PSL is finicky about ammo. My PSL hates Wolf Gold and Tula. It loves the Czech-surplus 'silvertips', and likes PRVI Partisan 150gr softpoints.
Czech 'silvertips' are very good, but are steelcored. Most ranges will be very upset with you. The only issue with the silvertips is that they aren't 7N1 spec, so the cam in the scope doesn't match the trajectory. They're a very long bullet for 148gr, a little longer than a 174gr Matchking BTHP based on the few I've pulled apart. They're also supposed to be highly corrosive, so a Boresnake and windex should go in your shooting bag if you use them.
As near as I have been able to tell, the PRVI Partisan 150gr SPs fly like the 7N1 rounds, so you can use the 4x scope with them.
There are two major improvements I'd suggest for a PSL: First is a new stock. The original one is really short, but usable for a teenager or smaller adult female. Rhineland Arms ( http://www.troupsystems.com/romanian%20stocks.htm ) has both Walnut and Tiger Maple unfinished. I'm still oiling the tiger maple I bought from them, but it's an easy install. 3 screws hold the buttstock on, and the upper and lower handguards are tool-free.
The second is a new trigger. I haven't decided on which one I want to get, other than US made (922r compliance). My trigger is on the heavy side and kind of gritty.
My PSL isn't too bad (1-1.5moa up to 300m w Czech surplus, 1.5-2moa with PRVI). The IOR scope is easily on par with an upper-end Leupold.
DO NOT use anything but 150gr ammo, you'll break the weapon. I was shooting some S&B 174gr match and was getting pierced primers and had one blow the firing pin out the back of the bolt.
In addition to the 150gr issue, the PSL is finicky about ammo. My PSL hates Wolf Gold and Tula. It loves the Czech-surplus 'silvertips', and likes PRVI Partisan 150gr softpoints.
Czech 'silvertips' are very good, but are steelcored. Most ranges will be very upset with you. The only issue with the silvertips is that they aren't 7N1 spec, so the cam in the scope doesn't match the trajectory. They're a very long bullet for 148gr, a little longer than a 174gr Matchking BTHP based on the few I've pulled apart. They're also supposed to be highly corrosive, so a Boresnake and windex should go in your shooting bag if you use them.
As near as I have been able to tell, the PRVI Partisan 150gr SPs fly like the 7N1 rounds, so you can use the 4x scope with them.
There are two major improvements I'd suggest for a PSL: First is a new stock. The original one is really short, but usable for a teenager or smaller adult female. Rhineland Arms ( http://www.troupsystems.com/romanian%20stocks.htm ) has both Walnut and Tiger Maple unfinished. I'm still oiling the tiger maple I bought from them, but it's an easy install. 3 screws hold the buttstock on, and the upper and lower handguards are tool-free.
The second is a new trigger. I haven't decided on which one I want to get, other than US made (922r compliance). My trigger is on the heavy side and kind of gritty.
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
" The IOR scope is easily on par with an upper-end Leupold."
" The IOR scope is easily on par with an upper-end Leupold."
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
When I was trained with the Russian styled Systems in Germany Both the Dragunov and PSL had what I thought was great glass. The Russian scopes had more power than the IOR but I felt the IOR optically was better. The IOR scopes that comes with them are only 4 power and they have tritium inside them however since tritium has a 5 year half life and being made in the late 70s-80s you wont see the tritium inside them. I have heard of kits that you can replace the tritium in them but are hard to get.
When I was trained with the Russian styled Systems in Germany Both the Dragunov and PSL had what I thought was great glass. The Russian scopes had more power than the IOR but I felt the IOR optically was better. The IOR scopes that comes with them are only 4 power and they have tritium inside them however since tritium has a 5 year half life and being made in the late 70s-80s you wont see the tritium inside them. I have heard of kits that you can replace the tritium in them but are hard to get.
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
Is the century psl the exact same rifle that they use or is it a replica parts gun POS like their AK's. For 500 bucks it seems like a decent collector gun if its the exact same one that is fielded by some countries.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=190872202
Is the century psl the exact same rifle that they use or is it a replica parts gun POS like their AK's. For 500 bucks it seems like a decent collector gun if its the exact same one that is fielded by some countries.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=190872202
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I was trained with the Russian styled Systems in Germany Both the Dragunov and PSL had what I thought was great glass. The Russian scopes had more power than the IOR but I felt the IOR optically was better. The IOR scopes that comes with them are only 4 power and they have tritium inside them however since tritium has a 5 year half life and being made in the late 70s-80s you wont see the tritium inside them. I have heard of kits that you can replace the tritium in them but are hard to get. </div></div>
I can't speak to what is over there but the ones century brings in here the scopes are marginal at best.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I was trained with the Russian styled Systems in Germany Both the Dragunov and PSL had what I thought was great glass. The Russian scopes had more power than the IOR but I felt the IOR optically was better. The IOR scopes that comes with them are only 4 power and they have tritium inside them however since tritium has a 5 year half life and being made in the late 70s-80s you wont see the tritium inside them. I have heard of kits that you can replace the tritium in them but are hard to get. </div></div>
I can't speak to what is over there but the ones century brings in here the scopes are marginal at best.
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
4x IOR on my PSL is as clear as my buddies $700 Leupold. I just wish it had more magnification, my eyes are getting old.
4x IOR on my PSL is as clear as my buddies $700 Leupold. I just wish it had more magnification, my eyes are getting old.
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott Kenny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4x IOR on my PSL is as clear as my buddies $700 Leupold. I just wish it had more magnification, my eyes are getting old. </div></div>
Out of all the comblock rail mount scopes out there the IOR is tough to beat especially since you can get them for 120ish bucks. The downside is not glass quality but ones that have broken turrets, scratched lenses etc.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott Kenny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4x IOR on my PSL is as clear as my buddies $700 Leupold. I just wish it had more magnification, my eyes are getting old. </div></div>
Out of all the comblock rail mount scopes out there the IOR is tough to beat especially since you can get them for 120ish bucks. The downside is not glass quality but ones that have broken turrets, scratched lenses etc.
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I was trained with the Russian styled Systems in Germany Both the Dragunov and PSL had what I thought was great glass. The Russian scopes had more power than the IOR but I felt the IOR optically was better. The IOR scopes that comes with them are only 4 power and they have tritium inside them however since tritium has a 5 year half life and being made in the late 70s-80s you wont see the tritium inside them. I have heard of kits that you can replace the tritium in them but are hard to get. </div></div>
The russians have a 4x24, 6x32?, and a 3-10 or something that they are using. They are made in the NPZ factory and very good but a bit difficult to find. I would love to have one of the 6X NPZ ones on my 2nd psl (it has a belarus 4X junker).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I was trained with the Russian styled Systems in Germany Both the Dragunov and PSL had what I thought was great glass. The Russian scopes had more power than the IOR but I felt the IOR optically was better. The IOR scopes that comes with them are only 4 power and they have tritium inside them however since tritium has a 5 year half life and being made in the late 70s-80s you wont see the tritium inside them. I have heard of kits that you can replace the tritium in them but are hard to get. </div></div>
The russians have a 4x24, 6x32?, and a 3-10 or something that they are using. They are made in the NPZ factory and very good but a bit difficult to find. I would love to have one of the 6X NPZ ones on my 2nd psl (it has a belarus 4X junker).
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a PSL that was captured in Baghdad. It was fun to shoot and that was about it.</div></div> +1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a PSL that was captured in Baghdad. It was fun to shoot and that was about it.</div></div> +1
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
wow, did they pimp that gun out or what? lol, looks like the gold plated ak-47s you see
wow, did they pimp that gun out or what? lol, looks like the gold plated ak-47s you see
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow, did they pimp that gun out or what? lol, looks like the gold plated ak-47s you see </div></div>
I think that's a gold plated SVD. The magazine is too far forward of the trigger to be a PSL.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow, did they pimp that gun out or what? lol, looks like the gold plated ak-47s you see </div></div>
I think that's a gold plated SVD. The magazine is too far forward of the trigger to be a PSL.
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow, did they pimp that gun out or what? lol, looks like the gold plated ak-47s you see </div></div>
I think that's a gold plated SVD. The magazine is too far forward of the trigger to be a PSL.</div></div> Actually it was a really ghetto paintjob
I have no idea if it is a PSL or Dragunov...don't know enough about them other than I don't like being on the receiving end of 'em.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow, did they pimp that gun out or what? lol, looks like the gold plated ak-47s you see </div></div>
I think that's a gold plated SVD. The magazine is too far forward of the trigger to be a PSL.</div></div> Actually it was a really ghetto paintjob
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
Nice picture. I bought the 6x posp scope from kalinka, and its quality glass for the money. It is ugly, and kinda clumsy, but its fun for range shooting the sar1. The balistic drop chevrons seem to be dead on using wolf or brown bear. Seemed to make the ak bump fire a lot easier with the top weight too.
Nice picture. I bought the 6x posp scope from kalinka, and its quality glass for the money. It is ugly, and kinda clumsy, but its fun for range shooting the sar1. The balistic drop chevrons seem to be dead on using wolf or brown bear. Seemed to make the ak bump fire a lot easier with the top weight too.
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
i bought a psl some time ago. from what i understand is that some were imported as complete guns and some were parts guns assembled in the US. i read it somewhere on the net on how to tell which were which. might have been dragunov.net or something like that. i thought it was a neat rifle. would love to get a real russian dragunov. the romanian scope, to me was a poor copy of the russian posp. i ordered a russian one from kalinka.
i bought a psl some time ago. from what i understand is that some were imported as complete guns and some were parts guns assembled in the US. i read it somewhere on the net on how to tell which were which. might have been dragunov.net or something like that. i thought it was a neat rifle. would love to get a real russian dragunov. the romanian scope, to me was a poor copy of the russian posp. i ordered a russian one from kalinka.
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
Thanks for the insight. very informative.
I had seen these around for the price thought about picking one up but now... im not so sure
Thanks for the insight. very informative.
I had seen these around for the price thought about picking one up but now... im not so sure
Re: century arms romanian dragunov insurgent weapon?
If you find a cheap psl, and have shittons of 7.62x54r its a great fun weapon to shoot on the weekends. First thing I'd do, is scrap the scope, and order one from kalinka. You're not gonna get super tight groups, but popping propane bottles, and oxygen bottles, it'd be great for.
If you find a cheap psl, and have shittons of 7.62x54r its a great fun weapon to shoot on the weekends. First thing I'd do, is scrap the scope, and order one from kalinka. You're not gonna get super tight groups, but popping propane bottles, and oxygen bottles, it'd be great for.
