Gunsmithing Cerakote vs DuraCoat

oneeyedmac

oneeyedmac

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Dec 22, 2007
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Marengo, OH
www.excorioprecisionarms.com
#1
I've had Birdsong in the past and that's a great finish but who has the months to wait for it?

I've had DuraCoat with OK results although on one rifle it got pretty scratched up, after I sold it. Also, their advertising says it's hard to take off even with media blasting, apparently they've never been at it with a scotchbright pad and some acetone. I've scraped that stuff off in short order that way. I've also heard that DuraCoat is house paint with a hardener, although I don't know if that's true.

I've not used Cerakote but I'm going to give it a try. Have any of you guys used both and if so which was a tougher finish?

Thanks in advance folks.
 
#3
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

I have had no issues with DuraCoat. As long as the metal is preped. properly (degreased, blasted, parkerized and coated). I had a rep from Cerakote send me a sample to try but have yet to put it on some metal. I did have a little snag with them though. They sent the sample to me voluntarily and a few weeks later I got an invoice for it. A glitch in their billing dept. but It still wasn't a cool first impression...
 
#5
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

My hunting rifle has it's action and barrel cerakoted. If one scratches against rocks the paint does come off, all in all only a few scratches after 3 years.
The duracoated stocks I make I stick into an oven at 60 centigrade for at least 5 hrs. I think this does increase hardness and durability. Have a stock on my varmint rifle for half a year now and also has a few very small scratches.

Just about any surface coating can scratch if one wacks against or rubs against stones. That's a good thing at least one has an excuse for a new paint job after a couple years.
I think duracoat and cerakote are worlds ahead of ordinary paint when it comes to abrasion resitance.

edi
 
#9
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: locked&loaded</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cerakote also requires baking @ 500 to 700 degrees for maximum curing.. That could be pretty tough on certain parts IMHO.. </div></div>

Who told you that? Cerakote will cure at 300 for one hour or 200 for two hours per their application fact sheet.

Cerakote is a whole other animal then Duracoat. Air cure will cure in five days. Oven cure in one or two hours and is tough as nails.

Down side to Cerakote is not many colors. Not all colors available in both air and oven, and when they are the gloss factor can be different and this will cause a different sheen between air and oven cure. There are tricks around this however.

Cerakote is not as forgiving when applying. If you touch it you might as well hose it off with brake cleaner and start again. It almost acts like powder coat. It will look dry but it isn't.

Have any questions you can call or email.
 
#10
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gopher711</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought the sample kit from NIC directly .(Cera-cote ).. 6 color choices & 1 Hardner, so far have only done a few AR Mags just messing with the stuff ( mixing colors etc.. ) . It is the air dry compound and it looks to be worth it so far ? its a lot tougher than paint for sure </div></div>

If you have the hardener you have oven cure not air cure. Air cure uses no hardener. Air cure is "C" product. Oven cure is "H" product.
 
#11
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

Does Cera-kote spray as easy as DuraCoat? I have very little experience with an HVLP sprayer, but the DuraCoat is very easy to spray and my jobs come out looking good. I've heard CeraKote is a little trickier. I am itching to give it a try. I am in the process of building my oven, just a little nervous about the skill it takes to make a professional looking job with it if your not too experienced with a sprayer.
 
#12
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: snommittj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does Cera-kote spray as easy as DuraCoat? I have very little experience with an HVLP sprayer, but the DuraCoat is very easy to spray and my jobs come out looking good. I've heard CeraKote is a little trickier. I am itching to give it a try. I am in the process of building my oven, just a little nervous about the skill it takes to make a professional looking job with it if your not too experienced with a sprayer. </div></div>

Goes on great and yes it's a little trickier. Like I said do not touch it until it has cured. It will look dry but it won't be. It almost acts like powder coat.

I will use Cerakote over Duracoat when I can. It’s more durable and the air cure is five days as opposed to three week for Duracoat.

JustinElis2-1.jpg
 
#13
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: snommittj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does Cera-kote spray as easy as DuraCoat? I have very little experience with an HVLP sprayer, but the DuraCoat is very easy to spray and my jobs come out looking good. I've heard CeraKote is a little trickier. I am itching to give it a try. I am in the process of building my oven, just a little nervous about the skill it takes to make a professional looking job with it if your not too experienced with a sprayer. </div></div>

Since when have you given a shite about how it looks! The only oven you are building is to heat damn horseshoes!

Figured out how to shoot that bent barreled chinese knock off yet? You got the only fake NF I have ever seen. <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mine is real though! </span></span>

I got a seat in a BC for ya you crazy _uck (I had an Foxtrot in there earlier). Kenny said to kiss his buttocks (I had a donkey in there), or at least he would if he knew I was given you a good cussin'. Moderators will let anyone on here! Damnit I'm tellin'
 
#14
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DHD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are correct. Not busting his balls, just had not heard from him in a while and got carried away. I shall edit out a few choice words though. </div></div>

Edited because you are. Your post gives the impression you have a problem. Someone else’s post is not really a place to play games that make it appear you are pissed off.
 
#17
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

I spray the two and while used more duracote I like cerakote the best as HateCA said it a bear to spray on but I like it better hands down its what the duracoat man has claimed he invented camo thats what I have a problem with call Matt at NIC you will be glad you did they have been great to me even told if in town swing by for a two day class see if the rest are as nice of folks
 
#18
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gopher711</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought the sample kit from NIC directly .(Cera-cote ).. 6 color choices & 1 Hardner, so far have only done a few AR Mags just messing with the stuff ( mixing colors etc.. ) . It is the air dry compound and it looks to be worth it so far ? its a lot tougher than paint for sure </div></div>

If you have the hardener you have oven cure not air cure. Air cure uses no hardener. Air cure is "C" product. Oven cure is "H" product. </div></div>

Looked at it this a.m. > your right it is the H-Series
I asked for the air cure ! but it still dried OK ?
 
#19
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

from my experiences duracoat has more colors thus more options. And ceracoat is a bit more durable. Both require good prep for them to work well.
 
#21
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gopher711</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gopher711</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought the sample kit from NIC directly .(Cera-cote ).. 6 color choices & 1 Hardner, so far have only done a few AR Mags just messing with the stuff ( mixing colors etc.. ) . It is the air dry compound and it looks to be worth it so far ? its a lot tougher than paint for sure </div></div>

If you have the hardener you have oven cure not air cure. Air cure uses no hardener. Air cure is "C" product. Oven cure is "H" product. </div></div>

Looked at it this a.m. > your right it is the H-Series
I asked for the air cure ! but it still dried OK ? </div></div>

Never tried that, oven cure with no oven. Might want to rub one of those mags with some MEK or Acetone and see if it comes off. If so stick one in the oven for an hour and try it again and see what happens. I'm interested in what NIC would say about mixing oven cure and not sticking it in the oven. Might have to call them and ask.
 
#22
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

out of the finishes one can apply in a home shop (duracoat, moly-resin, cerecoat ect.), which has the best lubricity? i have had good luck with the durability of moly-resin and like the fact that there is no guess work when it is hardened as it is done as soon as it comes out of the oven. i do not like the moly-resin on moly-resin friction between my bolt and raceway. there is plenty of clearance so the thickness is not causing binding. it was easier to cycle when it was parkerized on parkerized. i don't know what finish hs precision uses on their bolts but my htr action is smooth as can be and would like something similar that i can apply in a home shop. i am way too impatient to send it off somewhere and wait months to get it back.
 
#23
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

Normally the action will smooth up with the Moly after a few range trips. Never had a long term problem with the smoothness of the bolt after Moly.
 
#24
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

Have you had good luck applying Cerakote to bolts? On the one gun I have had Cerakoted so far, the coat on the top of the bolt body (Rem 700) began to strip off as if it was being stripped by the top rear surface of the ejection port(for lack of better description). It was gumming up on that surface like wet paint. It was oven cure and I waited over a week before I ever put the bolt back in the gun. The rest of the job looked good and seemed very durable.
 
#25
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

If you apply Cerakote, or any finishes for that matter too think you are going to have issues with tight fitting parts. That being said metal to metal contact is going to wear the finish, no way around that. Even factory bluing and park will wear.

Once you apply Cerakote, Moly, Duracoat, or any of them and they have fully cured you can apply oil to the finish, especially the oven bake finishes. I found this will re-hydrate the finish and help with the moving parts. Any of the oven baked finishes can come out of the oven extremely dry.
 
#26
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: locked&loaded</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cerakote also requires baking @ 500 to 700 degrees for maximum curing.. That could be pretty tough on certain parts IMHO.. </div></div>

Who told you that? Cerakote will cure at 300 for one hour or 200 for two hours per their application fact sheet.

Cerakote is a whole other animal then Duracoat. Air cure will cure in five days. Oven cure in one or two hours and is tough as nails.

Down side to Cerakote is not many colors. Not all colors available in both air and oven, and when they are the gloss factor can be different and this will cause a different sheen between air and oven cure. There are tricks around this however.

Cerakote is not as forgiving when applying. If you touch it you might as well hose it off with brake cleaner and start again. It almost acts like powder coat. It will look dry but it isn't.

Have any questions you can call or email.
</div></div>

Same experience here also, 500*F-700*F is definitely wrong, I usually bake at 250*F for 1.5 hrs. Also, if you bake at 300*F and go more than hour you risk the chance at slightly changing the color (slight burn). I believe this is due to most ovens that you hang the barreled action in vertically, the end of the barrel is closer to the burner.

 
#27
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddief</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: locked&loaded</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cerakote also requires baking @ 500 to 700 degrees for maximum curing.. That could be pretty tough on certain parts IMHO.. </div></div>

Who told you that? Cerakote will cure at 300 for one hour or 200 for two hours per their application fact sheet.

Cerakote is a whole other animal then Duracoat. Air cure will cure in five days. Oven cure in one or two hours and is tough as nails.

Down side to Cerakote is not many colors. Not all colors available in both air and oven, and when they are the gloss factor can be different and this will cause a different sheen between air and oven cure. There are tricks around this however.

Cerakote is not as forgiving when applying. If you touch it you might as well hose it off with brake cleaner and start again. It almost acts like powder coat. It will look dry but it isn't.

Have any questions you can call or email.
</div></div>

Same experience here also, 500*F-700*F is definitely wrong, I usually bake at 250*F for 1.5 hrs. Also, if you bake at 300*F and go more than hour you risk the chance at slightly changing the color (slight burn). I believe this is due to most ovens that you hang the barreled action in vertically, the end of the barrel is closer to the burner.

</div></div>

I'm not trying to bash Cerakote. Different finishes work better for diferent applications. As for the 500 to 700 degrees, I got that from the instruction sheet with the sample of Cerakote.

"Allow to air dry for 20 min. and then place in the oven at 175*F for 20 min to allow exess solvents from the coating to out-gas."

"Ramp up the oven to 500*F (minimum) to 700*F. After desired temperature is reached, cure parts for 60 minutes. High temperatures are recommended for extreme application requirements. If parts are processed below 500*F they have NOT fully cured. The final cure needs to take place at higher temperatures, which can occur with exhaust heat or the higher tempeature cure cycles as mentioned above."

Lines 10 and 11 on the instruction sheet...
 
#28
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DHD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: snommittj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does Cera-kote spray as easy as DuraCoat? I have very little experience with an HVLP sprayer, but the DuraCoat is very easy to spray and my jobs come out looking good. I've heard CeraKote is a little trickier. I am itching to give it a try. I am in the process of building my oven, just a little nervous about the skill it takes to make a professional looking job with it if your not too experienced with a sprayer. </div></div>

Since when have you given a shite about how it looks! The only oven you are building is to heat damn horseshoes!

Figured out how to shoot that bent barreled chinese knock off yet? You got the only fake NF I have ever seen. <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mine is real though! </span></span>

I got a seat in a BC for ya you crazy _uck (I had an Foxtrot in there earlier). Kenny said to kiss his buttocks (I had a donkey in there), or at least he would if he knew I was given you a good cussin'. Moderators will let anyone on here! Damnit I'm tellin' </div></div>


LOL! Thanks HateCa for squaring away my old LT. He can be a dick at times!!! LOL. Good to hear from you D.D. Believe it or not, I miss that crazy place sometimes. Let me know when you want to schedule those shooting lessons. I'll try to get your rifles shooting for you too while I'm at it. Tell all the other bastards I said hello too. Meanwhile, send your rifles so I can practice my cerakoting on some that don't matter if they get too f..ked up. Later, JT
 
#29
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

The H series Cerakote bakes for 250* for two hours per paragraph 10 of the NIC application guide which you can view here.

Locked&loaded - You are looking at the application guide for the V series High Temperature Coating which would be overkill for most applications and definitely for precision rifles. You can see the application guide for the V series here for comparison.
 
#30
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: locked&loaded</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm not trying to bash Cerakote. Different finishes work better for diferent applications. As for the 500 to 700 degrees, I got that from the instruction sheet with the sample of Cerakote.

"Allow to air dry for 20 min. and then place in the oven at 175*F for 20 min to allow exess solvents from the coating to out-gas."

"Ramp up the oven to 500*F (minimum) to 700*F. After desired temperature is reached, cure parts for 60 minutes. High temperatures are recommended for extreme application requirements. If parts are processed below 500*F they have NOT fully cured. The final cure needs to take place at higher temperatures, which can occur with exhaust heat or the higher tempeature cure cycles as mentioned above."

Lines 10 and 11 on the instruction sheet... </div></div>

Well then that explains it, you’re not reading NIC gun coating instructions, and you’re reading the instructions for the High Temp Ceramic Coating. The gun coating and the high temp ceramic coating instructions you are reading from are two entirely different things. NIC makes more then just gun coating. You better check and be sure they sent you the correct stuff before you try and do any refinishing with it.
 
#32
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

I am new to SH, and I figured I would add my two cents on this topic. I have used both duracoat and cerakote. and here is what I found on plastics (polymer) Duracoat dries faster and goes on easier using an airbrush at 20psi. Cerakote works best with metal you can actually spray the bolt and chamber with cerakote and it will make cleaning easier as well as lubricate.

I live here in Oregon down the road from NIC industries and got their tour and everything. Cerakote is great stuff but it is expensive,
 
#34
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

When applied properly, the thermal cure products are very durable. <span style="font-weight: bold">Properly</span> being the key word.

I've blasted duracoat off with little more than air pressure.
 
#36
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneeyedmac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know that a scotch brite pad and acetone will take duracoat off, will it take CeraKote off as well? How do these two compare to KG Guncoat? </div></div>

Haven't tried it myself, but if Acetone doesn't work Xylene might take care of it.
 
#37
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

I've just gotten started Cerakoting with the C-Series.

Like people above said....
Surface prep is everything. Read and follow the directions!
It takes me hours to set everything up, 15 minutes to spray, and 30 minutes at least to clean up. If you don't have the time to do it right, don't do it at all.

If done correctly, I cant imagine needing a better coating than Cerakote. It's amazing
 
#38
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

Keith at AZPrecision just Cerakoted my .260 Rem, came out great! Keith was relentless working to get it done right, had a small drip at the end of the barrel which he touched before it was dry. Even though I'm going to thread the barrel for a can, Keith stripped the entire barreled action and recoated it just so there wouldn't be a blemish while I'm waiting on the BATFE. His communication skills and craftsmanship are top notch! Bill
 
#39
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Goes on great and yes it's a little trickier. Like I said do not touch it until it has cured. It will look dry but it won't be. It almost acts like powder coat.

I will use Cerakote over Duracoat when I can. It’s more durable and the air cure is five days as opposed to three week for Duracoat.
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've just gotten started Cerakoting with the C-Series.
</div></div>


Have You guys painted both d-coat and c-coat?

Called to duracoat while ago, but forgot to ask how long paints stay good in bottles (without hardener of course) after seal is removed. Any idea?
Plan was to purchase bit bigger amount various colors and use them when I need for several projects.

Problem with Ceracoat here in europe is that they sell only bigger 800USD cans...US manufacturer wont send overseas....great customer service from european distributor...
mad.gif
 
#40
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Highground</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you had good luck applying Cerakote to bolts? On the one gun I have had Cerakoted so far, the coat on the top of the bolt body (Rem 700) began to strip off as if it was being stripped by the top rear surface of the ejection port(for lack of better description). It was gumming up on that surface like wet paint. It was oven cure and I waited over a week before I ever put the bolt back in the gun. The rest of the job looked good and seemed very durable. </div></div>

I have since had another rifle Cerakoted by a different finisher and this one turned out much better. The finisher told me that he puts a lighter coat on the bolt and uses a little more hardener on the entire finish. This one seems to hold up better as far as wear on my bolt.
 
#44
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: abn_surfer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cerakote works best with metal you can actually spray the bolt <span style="font-weight: bold">and chamber</span> with cerakote.</div></div>

I don't think you want to get Cerakote in the chamber.
 
#46
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Highground</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Highground</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you had good luck applying Cerakote to bolts? On the one gun I have had Cerakoted so far, the coat on the top of the bolt body (Rem 700) began to strip off as if it was being stripped by the top rear surface of the ejection port(for lack of better description). It was gumming up on that surface like wet paint. It was oven cure and I waited over a week before I ever put the bolt back in the gun. The rest of the job looked good and seemed very durable. </div></div>

I have since had another rifle Cerakoted by a different finisher and this one turned out much better. The finisher told me that he puts a lighter coat on the bolt and uses a little more hardener on the entire finish. This one seems to hold up better as far as wear on my bolt.</div></div>

Who did it and how much did it cost?
 
#48
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

How are you guys holding the barreled action? The small parts are no problem but I ended up brushing up against the side of the b/a and now I get to go back to the blasting cabinet.
 
#49
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

I was also wondering the same thing, I got a Remington 5r and love it, but I hate the SS finish. Does anyone know a good place to get the gun done near Philadelphia?
 
#50
Re: Cerakote vs DuraCoat

My smith recommended a teflon coated finish on my custom Bat 300winmag and Krieger barrel. What exactly does he mean by teflon, like the crap they put on frying pans? Is teflon as durable as Cerakote?
 
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