I'm collecting components for a build. I originally had in mind something like 6 X 284 or 6.5 X 284. I'd read that in order to get the best performance from that cartridge, you need to load them long, and that in order to have the longer COAL rds feed from a detachable mag you need to go long action. To that end I purchased a REM LA footprint stock that has DBM which takes the AICS 300WM magazines. I've never attempted to feed a short action cartridge from a long action mag before, So I'm wondering if any members here have had any experience with any short action cartridges being run in long actions. I don't want to set myself up for a rifle with built in feed issues?
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Chambering short action cartridges in long actions.
- Thread starter Jgun
- Start date
Actually about to do the same thing, want to start a custom build off a mausingfield and am thinking long action with a mild round such as a 284 win for most use to allow a switch barrel into magnums when I get to the point of trying elr type ranges (1000 yard range close but there is a 2000 yard range a couple hours away). From what I can tell the 6.5x284 or straight 284 would be a good candidate for this loaded long with vld type bullets. It has a similar cartridge diameter to the win mag so mag feeding should be workable. Any suggestions or comments?
Maybe great minds think alike. I came upon a good deal on a stock that happened to be a long action. I had already been thinking about a 6.5 X 284 build for a while and thought this stock would be a good candidate, But then I had second thoughts on it based on the reported barrel life. I've heard everything from 1200 to 2000 rds as the accurate life of a 6.5X284 barrel. That got me started exploring other options that might offer better life and low recoil. I've been looking at several 6mm/6.5mm rds, but they're all short action rds. I built a 6XC and like it, but would like something with a little more MV. I'm still undecided about the cartridge. I've spoken to a couple people that recommend I try the 6.5 SAUM. They say it's better in the wind than the 6mm's with not much more recoil, but when I asked about shooting it from a long action they can't offer anything more than a guess. Your idea about choosing a caliber with a case body similar to the 300WM makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking that a Bighorn TL3 long action might be a good idea because they have the replaceable bolt heads so that I could conceivably swap heads to a magnum bolt head if I tried a non magnum caliber and couldn't get it to run smoothly. Just as you're thinking long term caliber options, I too, like the idea of being able to turn the gun into a magnum caliber rifle if I should decide in the future that the 6mm/6.5mm short action cartridges don't suit my needs.
I come at this from a different angle.
If one wants to have a switch barrel system, it makes more sense to me to start with a long action.
More options.
The way I would probably be shooting a switch barrel system would most likely be as a single feeder anyway. I think the Savage 11/111 Long Range Hunter makes for a good start.
Greg
If one wants to have a switch barrel system, it makes more sense to me to start with a long action.
More options.
The way I would probably be shooting a switch barrel system would most likely be as a single feeder anyway. I think the Savage 11/111 Long Range Hunter makes for a good start.
Greg
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30 06 cartridges seem to feed well from the AICS 300WM magazines. So I'm wondering what 6/6.5mm cartridges with long neck and 30 shoulder are of similar length? Not sure if they're all going to be long actions. Anyone try the 6mm crusader?
If all else fails you can always do 6.5x55 (they also do ai version)...no experience with crusader though. Straight 284 should be much better on barrels then 6.5 284 if that Is an issue.
Actually, barrel life is my greatest concern with the 6.5 X 284. I've also read that the 6mm Remington might be a suitable choice. From what I've read that's what the 6mm Crusader is based on. Another one I'm looking at is 6mm Competition Match. I'm just hoping to find someone that has first hand experience with them.
Have known a few with 284 win just the base for the 6.5 284 with the 7mm that say it lasts around 2500-3000 rounds. No personal experience but based on a few others I know. Biggest issue is just necking up brass as everyone is making the 6.5 instead of the parent case.
I've ran about 600rds of .284Win in my Tikka long action with good success. Look at Accuratemag's .3006 mag, it has a built in spacer in front for these rounds that don't totally fill up a 300WM AICS mag. I'm loaded at 3.25" OAL with 180 Berger hybrids.. I have no experience with a long action Remington tho.
Out of curiosity do you neck up 6.5x284 brass? If so do you have more issues that require neck turning or is just running through the expander ball working well enough?
I actually bought 284win Norma brass from bullets.com. I have a .317 neck in my chamber, and after 3rd firing I did have to turn necks down, Norma is a little too thick for a .317 neck. If you're throated for .320 it's load and shoot, so far no other problems with that brass.
Thanks for the info KabarNC. That's one of my concerns with running the shorter cartridges in the long action, the front/back play of the rnds in the AICS 300WM magazine. If the Accuratemag magazine solves that issue I'll feel more confidant moving forward with the project.
6.5-284 with the heavies feed just fine out of LA mags but it's an exception to short action rounds and IMO it's not really a short action round, but more in between. You just can make it work in a SA if you seat it way back but it's not optimal. Make sure it's throated correctly so they're seated out right. I'd suggest running a bullet that isn't jump sensitive like the 140 hybrid and have the throat cut so that the bullet would be on the lands when seated with the base of the bearing surface .050" below the base of the neck. This will allow you to start at the standard .020" off the lands and have plenty of room to chase them (if needed) without the base of the bearing surface getting above the line.
The key to barrel life is going to be barrel length, powder, and just how hard you push it as with anything. Run a longer barrel (IMO 6.5-284 should be 28-30") and a slow cool burning powder and you'll get better barrel life. Unless you allow the barrel to cool a lot between each shot and/or just run a super light load I still don't see more than 1200-1500 rounds before you'll see velocity start to drop. With fast powders and pushing it hard you can easily torch it in 800-900 rounds too.
If you want a true LA round keep the 6.5-06 and 6.5-06AI in mind as well. Performance is pretty similar to 6.5-284 as is barrel life but consider fire forming with the Ackley version. My suggestion if going this route would be to do 6.5-06 for the first barrel so you're feeling it out and getting full barrel life of shooting minus load development. Then go Ackley for the second barrel if you're still interested in the round after burning the first and at this point have the old barrel punched out to Ackley with the same reamer and headspace for fire forming so that you're not torching a significant percentage of barrel life to get a couple hundred pieces of brass made.
The key to barrel life is going to be barrel length, powder, and just how hard you push it as with anything. Run a longer barrel (IMO 6.5-284 should be 28-30") and a slow cool burning powder and you'll get better barrel life. Unless you allow the barrel to cool a lot between each shot and/or just run a super light load I still don't see more than 1200-1500 rounds before you'll see velocity start to drop. With fast powders and pushing it hard you can easily torch it in 800-900 rounds too.
If you want a true LA round keep the 6.5-06 and 6.5-06AI in mind as well. Performance is pretty similar to 6.5-284 as is barrel life but consider fire forming with the Ackley version. My suggestion if going this route would be to do 6.5-06 for the first barrel so you're feeling it out and getting full barrel life of shooting minus load development. Then go Ackley for the second barrel if you're still interested in the round after burning the first and at this point have the old barrel punched out to Ackley with the same reamer and headspace for fire forming so that you're not torching a significant percentage of barrel life to get a couple hundred pieces of brass made.
I shot the 600yd line alongside a pair of shooters on the same .284 Win. They did better than I did, but then again, so did nearly everybody else. Truth is, I've gotten too old and unfit for the prone shooting game.
All that aside, that '06 clone is the 6.5-'06.
Personally, I admire the .280 Rem more, considering it a better balance of case capacity to bore ratio; still preserving good ballistic performance without getting into (near) magnum recoil. It is basically a 7mm-06, with a slightly extended shoulder length beyond the .30-'06. As overbore goes, it is the lesser alongside the 6.5-'06. .280 Rem is the chambering I would use as a long action/LR caliber. The bullets I'd be interested in loading would work in a 1:9" twist. I think this chambering could efficiently utilize a 28" barrel length
I did some experimenting, and found that the (fired/empty) .30-'06 case will extract and eject in a .308 sized action. It should be OK to single feed. The magazine is not an option, and an unfired round will not extract/eject. This last point (thankfully a rare necessity) can be effectively addressed by simply releasing the bolt catch and withdrawing it partway.
I would definitely skip the Short Action of I wanted a .280 Rem repeater.
Greg
All that aside, that '06 clone is the 6.5-'06.
Personally, I admire the .280 Rem more, considering it a better balance of case capacity to bore ratio; still preserving good ballistic performance without getting into (near) magnum recoil. It is basically a 7mm-06, with a slightly extended shoulder length beyond the .30-'06. As overbore goes, it is the lesser alongside the 6.5-'06. .280 Rem is the chambering I would use as a long action/LR caliber. The bullets I'd be interested in loading would work in a 1:9" twist. I think this chambering could efficiently utilize a 28" barrel length
I did some experimenting, and found that the (fired/empty) .30-'06 case will extract and eject in a .308 sized action. It should be OK to single feed. The magazine is not an option, and an unfired round will not extract/eject. This last point (thankfully a rare necessity) can be effectively addressed by simply releasing the bolt catch and withdrawing it partway.
I would definitely skip the Short Action of I wanted a .280 Rem repeater.
Greg
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The M24 uses a long action to feed the .308 with no issues. this isn't a new concept.
The different 6mm/6.5mm cartridges that I've been considering are all similar in length to .308 in the 2.8"-3" coal range. So maybe I'm being overly concerned with the front back play in the mags, and the longer jump from mag to chamber. The AICS 300WM is about .700" longer than a .308 mag. Seems like a lot. I've been told that there are companies making spacer blocks, but I've not found them in my online search. Accurate mag makes a 03 Springfield mag that externally fits the AICS size DBM, but has a spacer in the front that shortens the mag length from 3.615" to 3.415", which is perfect if I select a cartridge of 30-06 length. Lots of options to consider. My goal is to build something on my long action, that will shoot flat with low recoil, but also give good barrel life (I'd like at least 2500, without babying the barrel).. I'm also getting the idea that I can get better barrel life with a cartridge with greater capacity, shooting slower powder, vs a smaller capacity case with faster powder. As I get further into this, it becomes clear how little I know of so many cartridges. Every time I read a new post I'm running to read up on another cartridge suggested by a member. Thanks for all of the idea's and advice.
I think what youre looking for is the 6.8 creedmoor super.
But honestly that is the crux of the issue, the pursuit of the holy grail: we will all be dead before we know if it even exists. You have to just jump in somewhere because youll never get your feet wet otherwise. The deliberation can be endless and crippling.
I have a 6.5-284 on a LA 700 and it feeds flawlessly with .300WM AICS mags. 140 Hybrids over H4831SC. IIRC, I have around 1200 rounds on this barrel and it is still shooting really well.
6.5-06, Tikka or Remington long action, Manners stock, 24" heavy Palma barrel 1-8twist. Chambered for 143eld's "what I would like to do". With 143's it beats the 6.5-284 by 200fps. This coming from the Hornady manual. I read an Article on the 6.5-"aught"6 around 5 years ago and things were very in favor of its potential. Brass is everywhere and making brass from '06 or 270 or even the 280rem brass out there is super easy. I think Lapua even makes brass for the 30-06 so you have really good brass to make it from and then it will last a while. Just my thoughts...there you go.
