Cheapest OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

S

shaman

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 24, 2008
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Frankfort, Kentucky
#1
Been lacking in the hp range with the last cars, because of restrictive taxes here in J-Land. We are talking about heading back in a year or two, and was just wondering what, if anything, aside from the F-bod, Evo, WRX, and SRT are gonna be on the menu? I am looking for something that can be taken to 400 hp for not alot of money. Nitrous is cheating, at least for this thread. Meaning POS domestic with huge engine plus 300 shot doesn't count. Want something that can be DD, and get decent mpg.

Always wanted an f-bod, but my current car makes me want a turbo car. What suggestions do you have? Include price of car when discussing cheapest.
 
#2
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

F-body would be your best bet for what you seem to want. I have a 2000 SS that has been very good to me.

If you don't want to spend a lot of money and still get 400hp "wheel hp or crank hp?" it won't be easy with any of the other cars you listed. Also what kind of driving are you planning on doing? Or do you just want the hp?

LS1+intake+exhaust+cam = 400 pretty god damn reliable hp


Plus if you get bored you could always throw a 100 shot at it...try that with the the evo, wrx, or srt without dumping a load of cash into the bottom end.

Either way good luck with w.e. you decide...check out LS1tech.com if you have any real interest in f-body.



NEVER RULE OUT FOX BODIES EITHER!!!
smile.gif
 
#3
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

On a completely different track, and bear with me, you can generate a huge amount of power from the little VW turbo diesels. Stock they come with 100hp and 150ft-lbs. Chip, turbo, and fuel injectors can get you to 180hp and nearly 400ft-lbs. And still over 30mpg too. Lots of usable power right there, total sleeper, easy on insurance too.
 
#4
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

What's your budget?

The LSx based GMs have or can achieve the kind of power you are looking for without a problem. They are pretty reliable. Easy to mod if you wanted. Good on gas mileage.

400hp is easy to do and is pretty common place nowadays in factory cars.
 
#5
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

you can do 400 fairly easily through the hemi, with a chip exhaust and intake. look around for a charger rt or higher, or a challenger rt
 
#6
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

A buddy of mine has a ragtop Camaro; just finished with a Comp Cam, LS6 intake, stainless headers, open exhaust, ported throttle body, bigger intake....and that's it.

Dyno'd at 386 horsepower, 374 foot pounds. At the wheels.

If you're looking for something with more power that you can drive all day, you're going to have to seriously consider some type of forced induction.
 
#7
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

to hit 400 in a Subaru would take a new engine (WRX's are 2.0L) so you'd need a different block, and WRX also have a 5spd that usually dies after 300hp.
I'd highly recommend this route as i loved mine, but you'll be better off starting off with an STI as a base model.
you'll have 12k or so into an STI plus 5-8k probably on top of that to get to 400hp.
 
#8
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: upjeeper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">to hit 400 in a Subaru would take a new engine (WRX's are 2.0L) so you'd need a different block, and WRX also have a 5spd that usually dies after 300hp.
I'd highly recommend this route as i loved mine, but you'll be better off starting off with an STI as a base model.
you'll have 12k or so into an STI plus 5-8k probably on top of that to get to 400hp. </div></div>

Since 2006, the WRX has been 2.5L. Not difficult to get to 400 at the wheel for about $5k more. Keep in mind this is about 450+ at the crank. But doing so with a WRX will likely result in a blown transmission. Sti's transmission is MUCH stronger and can easily handle 400+ hp.
 
#10
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

not obd2 but would love to have

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qSJVi1mPjZQ&feature=related"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qSJVi1mPjZQ&feature=related" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
#16
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Rousch kit on a new Mustang will get easily over 400hp. A Fox bodied 'Stang with a Rousch kit can also do it as well but the new model will pass smog too </div></div>
heck the new mustang v6 comes with over 300 supposedly
 
#17
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

Horsepower is calculated; torque is measured. Torque is simply a function of horsepower vs. RPM

Horsepower = Torque X RPM / 5252

So two different engines with similar horsepower ratings can have vastly different torque figures and will drive like two completely different animals.

2008 Suzuki Hayabusa -- 178 hp, 107 tq

2008 Ducati Desmocedici -- 177 hp, 76 tq

Nearly identical hp numbers, vastly dfifferent torque.
 
#19
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SVT_Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a Ford Lighting or 03' or 04' Cobra and enjoy </div></div>

+1

03-04 Cobra with Kenne Bell supercharger upgrade
 
#20
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

I have seen early 2000 model Dodge diesel trucks with 800+ hp
and over 1100 ft lbs of torque with bigger injectors,
bigger turbo, and tuning they are awesome.
Downside noisy,lots of smoke.
 
#21
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

Might want to take a look at the new 2011 5.0 GT Mustangs... they are over 400 factory.....

Rumor has it.. that in 2012-13... there is going to be the 351 W motor with approx 525 in the standard GTs...

Matt
 
#22
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DEMjunior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">F-body would be your best bet for what you seem to want. I have a 2000 SS that has been very good to me.

If you don't want to spend a lot of money and still get 400hp "wheel hp or crank hp?" it won't be easy with any of the other cars you listed. Also what kind of driving are you planning on doing? Or do you just want the hp?

LS1+intake+exhaust+cam = 400 pretty god damn reliable hp


Plus if you get bored you could always throw a 100 shot at it...try that with the the evo, wrx, or srt without dumping a load of cash into the bottom end.

Either way good luck with w.e. you decide...check out LS1tech.com if you have any real interest in f-body.



NEVER RULE OUT FOX BODIES EITHER!!!
smile.gif
</div></div>

The f-body is the front runner obviously. Was also thinking about an LSx miata for a recockulous toy.

Honestly, I will probably never use the power. If I did it would be for onramps or higher speed driving. Not much of a light to light guy. Wouldn't mind maybe autocross style stuff, but not really interested in really spending for it.

Other choice would be TDI or high mpg beater plus a bike.

I don't know how to quote everyone, so I am gonna reply separately.

Fox-body isn't OBD-2
 
#23
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sled Dog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On a completely different track, and bear with me, you can generate a huge amount of power from the little VW turbo diesels. Stock they come with 100hp and 150ft-lbs. Chip, turbo, and fuel injectors can get you to 180hp and nearly 400ft-lbs. And still over 30mpg too. Lots of usable power right there, total sleeper, easy on insurance too. </div></div>

I know all about the TDIs. I am on TDIclub. Most of them will tell you that your power to $ ratio will suck after nozzle and tune. For 10k(including car), i could get maybe 200hp and 3,4,500 tq). For the same 10K I could have an F-bod and beat cavalier with tunes and bolt-ons for the f-body. I know that the cav won't get 40-50 mpg, but diesel just doesn't do it for me in America. Here, if my car was totaled tonight, I would go down the street and buy the 1997 QD32DDTI power Nissan Terrano, and add bypass filter, exhaust, diff breathers, water methanol injection, up the fuel, and up the boost. But diesel is also 22 yen per liter cheaper than regular, and kerosene is half the price of regular, and 20L of kerosene only need about 1L of lubricant(veg-oil) to run in a diesel. Needless to say, I have been down that road.
 
#24
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bryan27</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a diesel truck. </div></div>

12-18 mpg on the highway? I can call my father if I need to move something. Besides, what good in 400 hp if you have to move a 4 ton brick?
 
#25
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SVT_Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a Ford Lightning or 03' or 04' Cobra and enjoy</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.S.T. Glenn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
+1
03-04 Cobra with Kenne Bell supercharger upgrade
</div></div>

Figured it out. Mustang Cobra starts at $26K used in the Centex area. I could build an F-bod and a decently quick TDI for that. I think I need to change the title
 
#26
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SVT_Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a Ford Lightning or 03' or 04' Cobra and enjoy</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.S.T. Glenn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
+1
03-04 Cobra with Kenne Bell supercharger upgrade
</div></div>

Figured it out. Mustang Cobra starts at $26K used in the Centex area. I could build an F-bod and a decently quick TDI for that. I think I need to change the title </div></div>
Thats kinda high for a terminator (03 & 04 Cobra) I've seen them go on craigslist for less than 17K right now. And a stock Terminator would blow the doors off a lightly modified LS1 with some minor bolt on's. Thats what they where built for.
 
#28
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

I'd be careful buying a used car that has extensive modifications on it. I know, I have worked on and have built quite a few F-bodies and Mustangs. The LS1 F-body, while a solid performer, has been since eclipsed on many levels with newer cars. But if you are looking for a car to tinker on, have at it with the LSx based cars or the 03/04 Cobras.

Me personally, I would probably get a C5 Z06 or a blown E55. You will be starting at 400+ hp already. I guess I am at the stage of stop throwing money into something that will continually decline in price. At least with guns, now, the resale doesn't jack you up like it does on a car.
 
#30
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Horsepower is calculated; torque is measured. Torque is simply a function of horsepower vs. RPM

Horsepower = Torque X RPM / 5252

So two different engines with similar horsepower ratings can have vastly different torque figures and will drive like two completely different animals.

2008 Suzuki Hayabusa -- 178 hp, 107 tq


110hp x 6500rpm =(715000) / 5252= 136'# of Torque for my 2002 Sportster

BUT

136'#T x 5252 = 714272 / 6500rpm = 109.888hp

These are the figures for a 110hp 1250cc Sportster at lower than it's redline capability of 7500rpm. If we use 7500rpm at full WFO redline...

110 x 7500 = 82500 / 5252 = 157'#T
157#'T x 5252 = 824564 / 7500 = 109.94hp

This is due to the fact that instead of four small cylinders with tiny pistons or two 500cc pistons, there are two very large 625cc Pistons moving to make huge torque figures with less hp.
Will a 'Busa do a sub 10 Second 1/4? Maybe. Will the Duc' do a sub 10 second 1/4...probably not. Will a 2002 SPorty do a sub 10 second pass(we call it high 9's) yes, on a good day on a track or god sticky asphalt

2008 Ducati Desmocedici -- 177 hp, 76 tq

Nearly identical hp numbers, vastly dfifferent torque. </div></div>
 
#31
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

I dont mean to rain on the parade of some of the previous posts in here. But I used to have a 550+ whp civic, my friend has a 400whp rotrex supercharged civic with a 75 shot of nitrous on top of it. Both cars had bone stock motors in them. In fact the car my friend has actually has the same motor that was in my turbo car making 550whp. Tuning is key to everything, for the people that slap a nitrous or turbo setup on a car and think everything is hunky dory your wrong, and the end results are something that you hear about all the time...pop goes the piston!!

I will have to see if my buddy still has all his videos of him racing, and beating 4-500whp mustangs and camaro's with his measily 75 shot on a bone stock motor no super charger or turbo. We dont have many vids of my car as I never planned races. But if you want a fun fast car and dont mind giving up some creature comforts. Then get a civic, k swap it, and add some forced induction. Easily done for under 10k. None of this bs you hear people talking about for 5k engine programs etc etc. After you get your motor situation worked out, get some omni sport coilovers and a set of full-race traction bars and some good tires. My 550whp car never had wheel hop...people exagerate so much stuff.

But if I were to pick any car to have if I had unlimited funds and or didnt want to give up creature comforts. Cadillac cts-v with twin precision 5957 turbos at about 7-9psi...easily a 500-550whp car and you wouldnt have to change a think as the ls7 clutch is already installed in that car and you wouldnt have to worry about slipping the clutch.

Here is my car built head, stock bottom end, IPS kme cams, header blah blah blah...was working on the tune, 2nd and 3rd gear pull.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgXjtDqpWkc

This is my friends car, completely stock motor civic. Racing a friend of mines 360whp ls1 camaro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtHqE-uPawk&videos=_oI5y7u-uzs&feature=BF

This is the startup and a few seconds of my turbo eg.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/heres-a-little-tease-as-to-what-is-to-come-of-the_104589.htm

There are more videos of the rotrex civic and spray racing stuff like a 500whp cobra, 5-600whp other cars. I think a c5 or c6 z06 and sticking door to door with it. My teal car when boosted, ran down gixxer 750's, a ls6 swapped fc rx7, and countless other "fast" cars.
 
#32
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd be careful buying a used car that has extensive modifications on it. I know, I have worked on and have built quite a few F-bodies and Mustangs. The LS1 F-body, while a solid performer, has been since eclipsed on many levels with newer cars. But if you are looking for a car to tinker on, have at it with the LSx based cars or the 03/04 Cobras.

Me personally, I would probably get a C5 Z06 or a blown E55. You will be starting at 400+ hp already. I guess I am at the stage of stop throwing money into something that will continually decline in price. At least with guns, now, the resale doesn't jack you up like it does on a car. </div></div>


I wasn't really planning on buying an extensively modified one, just showing what was out there. I am worried about resale, but more worried about longevity and overall price, including insurance and maintenence.
 
#33
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

im working on building a 95 Z28 with the lt1
plans are
383 stroker
air gap high rpm intake
twin 58mm throttle body
headers with full exaust
55-60lb injecters
cold air intake
comp cam XFI 280 cam
solid roller lifters
roller rocker
high rev kit
and maybe a set of Air Flow Research Comp heads

and if that doesnt cut it theres always a little juice
 
#35
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Horsepower is calculated; torque is measured. Torque is simply a function of horsepower vs. RPM

Horsepower = Torque X RPM / 5252

So two different engines with similar horsepower ratings can have vastly different torque figures and will drive like two completely different animals.

2008 Suzuki Hayabusa -- 178 hp, 107 tq


110hp x 6500rpm =(715000) / 5252= 136'# of Torque for my 2002 Sportster

BUT

136'#T x 5252 = 714272 / 6500rpm = 109.888hp

These are the figures for a 110hp 1250cc Sportster at lower than it's redline capability of 7500rpm. If we use 7500rpm at full WFO redline...

110 x 7500 = 82500 / 5252 = 157'#T
157#'T x 5252 = 824564 / 7500 = 109.94hp

This is due to the fact that instead of four small cylinders with tiny pistons or two 500cc pistons, there are two very large 625cc Pistons moving to make huge torque figures with less hp.
Will a 'Busa do a sub 10 Second 1/4? Maybe. Will the Duc' do a sub 10 second 1/4...probably not. Will a 2002 SPorty do a sub 10 second pass(we call it high 9's) yes, on a good day on a track or god sticky asphalt

2008 Ducati Desmocedici -- 177 hp, 76 tq

Nearly identical hp numbers, vastly dfifferent torque. </div></div> </div></div>

The motor with more rotational mass will have more torque at a given RPM. Look at the difference between a 1990 Chevy Silverado 454SS with 230hp and 385ft/lbs and compare to a 1993 Subaru WRX at 236hp and 205lb/ft. One will eat the other off the line...given enough room, the other will end up on top. Displacement equals rotational mass -- you can turbo/blower/intercool/nitrous all you want, but there's no replacement for displacement. If you're truly looking for a kick in the pants with 100,000 mile daily driver reliability, and keeping the whole mess cheap, then there's really no substitute for an F-body or Cobra. Granted, both cars have their weak points, the Cobra has engine issues and the F-body has a small axle, but for the initial investment vs. return, they can't be beat.

I'm willing to listen to any reasonable retort for a vehicle available in the U.S.
 
#36
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

not sure yet going to have a friend help me tune it,im not up to date with fuel enjected engines.the last engine i built was a mild 396 in school
 
#37
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ouch!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">engine swap turbo K civic</div></div>


What are you using to tune? How does it do with inspection? Is it OBD2?
 
#38
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ouch!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">engine swap turbo K civic</div></div>


What are you using to tune? How does it do with inspection? Is it OBD2? </div></div>

I dont know about a thorough inspection like california, but almost every other state I can think of has this form of car done. In obd1 chassis-honda fits.
 
#40
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

No an rsx is what the k series comes out of its obd2. A lot of people swap them in obd1 civics because they weigh next to nothing. I have a 99 civic which is obd2 and I can swap it at anytime.
 
#42
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ouch!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">engine swap turbo K civic</div></div>


What are you using to tune? How does it do with inspection? Is it OBD2? </div></div>
Most good tuners will not change the software part number for the individual areas of software.
I don't want to bore you or get to technical but the ECM (PCM) is like a room full of boxes. Inside each box is programming. Each box has a label. The programmer tries to change the programming in the box but leave the label untouched so if anyone is looking inside the room they see all the right part numbers on the boxes but would not go into the individual boxes because it would take to long and the factory doesn't want anyone looking into the boxes so it does not tell anyone what is in them.

Most tuning is done for all out performance and shifting. The test for smog in Kalifornia is 15 and 25 mile an hour test at a very light load. The "boxes" that usually have that programming are not changed only the one that are at higher load levels. Most of the monitors are also not touched so they will run normally.

Monitors are programming that runs small emissions tests while you are driving like, O2 sensor performance, cat converter efficiency, EVAP leaks, misfire, sensor rationality, fuel control etc. In Kalifornia all that is required is that not more than 2 monitors are allowed to NOT run and there must be no failures of any monitors, and no malfunction codes in the computer. Even the ones that haven't set the light yet.
Dang I ramble....
 
#43
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

AFX tunes vehicle computer's. If you have a say, DOdge 2.0L SOHC L4, swap out the cam and bump compression(11:1 wasn't enough???) they will retune the computer so it works with the upgrades.
Say you found an old Dakota with a 4.7L V8 or a 5.2L V8. You put in a stout cam, run higher compression pistons(overall at this point maybe $2k) you simply have AFX retune your computer.
For teh cost of parts, upgraded computer, your OBDII works, your Cruise Control does 120mph, Your rev limit is set to your spec of say 7500rpm(which any modern V8 can do with ease) and you are paying for top shelf pump gas
 
#44
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

On the k swap turbo car I had I tuned it with aem...way more of a pain as an ems than a piggy back system like hondata kpro. My frieds car is on kpro and I also had a car on kpro until I started pretty much canceling everything that most stock ecu's look for when they run.
 
#45
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

YOu have me listening, because i always wanted my dad to keep his 1990 Honda Civic. DO you happen to have a price sheet and a dyno sheet to go along with the build?
 
#46
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

I can give you a rough rough idea. Depends totally on what kind of power and turbo you plan on going with. A precision 5957 is probably what you would enjoy the most. A turbo setup with that turbo in the 3-3500 range, the swap if you put things together slowly you can get a shortblock with rods and pistons already in it then add a head and a few other small things, a competition clutch stg4 is what I would recomend as my friends nitrous fed rotrex charched car is running and then either an ep3 or base rsx 5 spd trans. But a motor, CC stg4 and trans will be in the 2500-3k range,so all in all you can have close to 8k in it pretty easily. But it will be a 500whp setup pretty easily or you can just do a stock k24a1 crv motor, CC stg 4, and a rotrex with an rsx 6spd be fast and alot of fun. Ill see if i can dig up a video of his supercharger setup.
 
#49
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

Yeah, bacarrat, that is why it is at the top of the list. I know what they can do because I have wanted one since 1999. I have to worry about the reliability of a engine swapped then turbo engine in a civic though.
 
#50
Re: Easiest(cheapest) OBD-2 car to get to 400hp?

I drove mine 1400 miles to south florida averaging 28 MPG. If its tuned right it runs like a top all the time, if its built right then it lasts a long time, no oil leaks no boost leaks.
 
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