Check my logic on problem zeroing a scope

[ForgeValley]

All right guys, think I have worked this through and the scope needs to go back to Kahles, but thought I would check and see if I am missing anything as this is my first Kahles.

Scope is a Gen 1 or 2 K624i, basically new in box.

I followed the directions in the manual to reset zero stop, and have about 26 mils of total elevation range.

I use a laser boresight to get an initial zero, and have confirmed many times the laser gives me accurate initial zero.

The problem is I am well into the 2nd rev, 19 mils up, before the reticle zeros. That leaves me about 7 mils of usable elevation on a 20 moa rail.

I've confirmed everything is okay with the rifle, rail, and rings by dropping a vortex on the rings and it easily zeroed. There is no binding on the scope internals as I barely torqued the rings down and had the same results.

So just want to make sure I'm not doing something stupid, or there is something about the Kahles I am not doing right, before I send it back to Austria.

Thanks!

 

[TonyTheTiger]

20moa rail on backwards?

 

[ForgeValley]

Good thought, but it's integral, and the action is pointing downrange! ;-). And they are ARC rings, so nothing to really do wrong there... I have put a mount on backward before.

 

[KZP]

I would double check the height on both ends of your rail just to be sure. Unless you have zeroed another scope on this rifle already?

 

[ForgeValley]

I would double check the height on both ends of your rail just to be sure. Unless you have zeroed another scope on this rifle already?

I have, I put a Vortex on the same setup, just loosened the rings, and it zeroed with about 4-5 mils up I think. So I'm thinking it has to be the scope, either something I don't know about a Kahles, or the reticle alignment is just boogered. I've just never heard of that before.

 

[KZP]

Weird, that does seem more like a scope issue.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Well, I'm fresh out of ideas then. Sounds like a scope problem.

 

[eklarsen]

The scope isn't riding up in the rings, meaning do you have room both fore and aft of the ring or is it tight against the slope of the bell of the scope? Perhaps a pic would be helpful.

 

[eklarsen]

You know, I recall my first 20 MOA rail gave me the same impression when using a laser boresight, but when I took it out shooting I had to dial it way down to get on target. Perhaps you should shoot it before you go through the trouble of sending it in.

 

[bax]

You know, I recall my first 20 MOA rail gave me the same impression when using a laser boresight, but when I took it out shooting I had to dial it way down to get on target. Perhaps you should shoot it before you go through the trouble of sending it in.

Concur. Kahles turnaround time is significant.

 

[JA Thacker]

You shouldn't set the Zero Stop until it is actually fired and zeroed. After that you can set it.

 

[hlee]

If you haven't shot the rifle after bore sighting it, you haven't zeroed the rifle.

How to bore sight a rifle...

1. Find laser bore sighter.

2. Find trash can.

3. Put laser bore sighter in trash can.

4. Put the rifle in a secure and steady rest.

5. Pull the bolt and sight down range through the barrel (literally, bore sighting).

6. Find something you can identify through the bore.

7. Without moving the rifle, adjust the elevation and windage until they are centered on the object you sighted through the bore.

8. Confirm that both the reticle picture and the bore picture are in agreement.

9.Take the rifle to the range and shoot it to fine tune zero at desired distance.

My experience has been that laser range finders are- at best- toys and often no more than a waste of money. You can do everything above, but the shooting, in your house- and it shouldn't take more than 15 minutes. A piece of blue painters' tape on a wall is sufficient for an aiming point.

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

So just want to make sure I'm not doing something stupid, or there is something about the Kahles I am not doing right, before I send it back to Austria. Thanks!

You need a 45 MOA base to maximize your elevation with that model. You'll have to add another 20/25 MOA so perhaps MOA rings to go with your existing 20 MOA base. Take it off your rifle, put it on a flat table and center your erector then do a tall target test (not live fire of course, just watch your reticle travel on the target......reticle down when cranking up and vice-versa,) that will verify the mechanical tracking. If it works then you know your action/receiver, base, and ring combination only leaves you 7 mils of elevation. Then you'll have to find a way to increase your base adjustment. It's not that unusual.

 

[ForgeValley]

If you haven't shot the rifle after bore sighting it, you haven't zeroed the rifle.

How to bore sight a rifle...

My experience has been that laser range finders are- at best- toys and often no more than a waste of money. You can do everything above, but the shooting, in your house- and it shouldn't take more than 15 minutes. A piece of blue painters' tape on a wall is sufficient for an aiming point.

Thanks hlee, I understand how to boresight a rifle. I've confirmed to myself many times that this system puts me on paper more quickly than using the old eyeball technique. It's worth it to me.

 

[Nik H]

I have your exact scope (Gen 2 - 624). It is mounted on a Larue AR10 with a 1.47" Spuhr cantilever mount. The original Spuhr was a zero cant model. When zeroed at 100 yards, the elevation was set at 14.1 mils leaving me about 12.2 mils of usable elevation. I sold that mount and purchased the same Spuhr with 20 MOA of cant and the elevation at 0 was 8.5 mils. I seldom shoot the rifle but over the last 3 years, I have put about 1,500 rounds through it.

Recently, I had an issue where the zero drifted a bit. It also was not tracking well. Sent it to Austria and it returned in 4 weeks. There was an erector problem or so they said. The evaluation didn't go into detail.

Scope works great now

 

[bax]

Thanks hlee, I understand how to boresight a rifle. I've confirmed to myself many times that this system puts me on paper more quickly than using the old eyeball technique. It's worth it to me.

I have a Kahles 624i purchased off this here web site about a year ago. It was a good deal, I am happy.

I have a remington 700 based 300 win mag. It was wearing a leupold 16x on badger rings and 20moa base. I pulled the Leupold 16, dropped on badger 34mm rings, set the scope on the rings, fiddled and wiggled until I was happy, tightened everything down, and took it to the range. I had sent the scope to Kahles for another reason so it was set to mechanical zero. I looked through the barrel at the 100 yard target, lined everything up, cranked about 6 mils of elevation and about 1 mil of windage, fired a round, fiddled, fired two rounds. It's on at 100. Ran it out to 1000 and noticed that my card for the 16x was a few 10ths different with the Kahles. Changes noted, new card made. Rock and roll.

The barrel has 2,500 rounds through it and I took 10 shots at a steel prairie dog. I missed every shot but the spotter said the group was under a foot. Most of y'all shoot better than that but I was happy with it on that day.

If you have a 20 MOA rail I don't see why you have some much elevation. It doesn't make sense. Did you do a tall target to see if it is tracking? You aren't doing your laser bore sight at short distance so that isn't it. Since you got a zero with your other scope, it makes no sense. I would still shoot it first but something isn't right.

Years ago I had these two benchrest rifles - stolle 6ppc with leupold 36x scopes LV and HV. I was making my own bullets and things started to go to hell. Damn guns would not shoot my bullets. I fiddled and fussed, switched scopes from one gun to the other tried all sorts of stuff - no good. It must be my bullets. Put the guns down and stopped shooting BR for a while - my job got in the way. A few years go by and I pick up one of the rifles and I have a leupold 24x so I put it on a gun and take it to the range. The damn things shoots a big 2 with my bullets and the 24. Well crap! I had two bad 36x scopes. Sent them both in, leupold fixed them and life was good. Scopes will make you crazy.

 

[hlee]

Thanks hlee, I understand how to boresight a rifle. I've confirmed to myself many times that this system puts me on paper more quickly than using the old eyeball technique. It's worth it to me.

Well, this IS in the stupid questions forum so we need to check all the bases, cover all the boxes, cross the eyes, and, dot the tees. That said, what is not obvious from your post is whether or not you have shot the rifle to confirm your zero with the Kahles scope.

 

[aljones_315]

If you haven't shot the rifle after bore sighting it, you haven't zeroed the rifle.

How to bore sight a rifle...

1. Find laser bore sighter.

2. Find trash can.

3. Put laser bore sighter in trash can.

4. Put the rifle in a secure and steady rest.

5. Pull the bolt and sight down range through the barrel (literally, bore sighting).

6. Find something you can identify through the bore.

7. Without moving the rifle, adjust the elevation and windage until they are centered on the object you sighted through the bore.

8. Confirm that both the reticle picture and the bore picture are in agreement.

9.Take the rifle to the range and shoot it to fine tune zero at desired distance.

My experience has been that laser range finders are- at best- toys and often no more than a waste of money. You can do everything above, but the shooting, in your house- and it shouldn't take more than 15 minutes. A piece of blue painters' tape on a wall is sufficient for an aiming point.

LOVE IT I USE MY BROTHER IN LAWS EYEBALL AS MY BORE SIGHTER LASERS HAVE NEVER WORKED FOR ANYONE THAT I PERSONALLY KNOW.