Advanced Marksmanship Cheek Weld

[DamnYuppie]

Hi All,

I am brand new to long range shooting and has been 20+ years since I hunted as a youngster with my father. To get a better understanding of the fundamentals of shooting I purchased the online tutorials from Snipers Hide and have been practicing dry firing my rifle in the prone position using the techniques they describe. I have also signed up for a Rifles Only course in March.

Yet I feel I have an issue with my setup, specifically my cheek weld. I often find that I am using my neck muscles to support my cheek. Shouldn't my cheek be lying flat on the butt of the rifle without any support from the rest of my body? If so this then leads me to conclude my scope is not setup properly for me. The reason I don't fully place my cheek on the butt of the rifle is that when I do so I don't have a clear view through the scope. I have ordered a cheek spacer for my rifle in hopes this will remediate the issue. Does my line of reasoning seem reasonable or am I overlooking something very obvious?

Any ideas are much appreciated!

Brian

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Cheek Weld

You're on the right track with the cheek spacer/adjustable cheek piece. When your head is resting on the rifle, your neck muscles should be relaxed. The adjustable cheek piece will get you there.

ETA: Throw a picture of your setup up and you can get an assessment if your scope is mounted too high too. Your objective lens body of your scope should be just above the rifle's barrel. If you have more than a 1/4" clearance, you might be able to run lower rings too.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Cheek Weld

if yer like me youll need 1' of spacer to get on low rings. most cant even see thru my scopes without pulling off the comb pads.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Cheek Weld

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi All,

I am brand new to long range shooting and has been 20+ years since I hunted as a youngster with my father. To get a better understanding of the fundamentals of shooting I purchased the online tutorials from Snipers Hide and have been practicing dry firing my rifle in the prone position using the techniques they describe. I have also signed up for a Rifles Only course in March.

Yet I feel I have an issue with my setup, specifically my cheek weld. I often find that I am using my neck muscles to support my cheek. Shouldn't my cheek be lying flat on the butt of the rifle without any support from the rest of my body? If so this then leads me to conclude my scope is not setup properly for me. The reason I don't fully place my cheek on the butt of the rifle is that when I do so I don't have a clear view through the scope. I have ordered a cheek spacer for my rifle in hopes this will remediate the issue. Does my line of reasoning seem reasonable or am I overlooking something very obvious?

Any ideas are much appreciated!

Brian</div></div>

You appear to know what's wrong and know what to do about it. A proper stock-weld will support the position, as well as consistent sight alignment.

 

[DamnYuppie]

Re: Cheek Weld

Thanks for the feedback. Glad to hear I am not way off base on this. As requested here are some pictures of my rifle and scope. It is a Sako TRG 22 with a NightForce NXS 3.5-15x50. It has Badger Ordnance 30mm Medium High rings.

Brian

 

[K_Mac]

Re: Cheek Weld

From what I've seen that rifle already has an adjustable cheek piece?

This is copied directly from their website: The base of the STOCK is made of aluminium, to which the polyurethane forestock is attached. The buttstock is also
made of polyurethane and is reinforced through the use of an aluminium skeleton. Spacers allow the cheek piece to
be fully adjustable in height and infinitely adjustable in windage and pitch.

 

[ker2222]

Re: Cheek Weld

Rolll that adj cheek up till it works........I need almost an inch adjustment as well

 

[175G]

Re: Cheek Weld

You have to fiddle around with it till you get it perfectly set up for you. It took me awhile to get mine just right. I could be the ring height, moving the scope back or forward, cheek spacers, length of pull, etc but at the end you want a perfect position on it so that when you get prone behind your rifle quickly you have the same perfect sight picture and cheek weld and you are comfy squared up and able to get it repeatedly without having to fiddle around too much. It might help if you got someone to take a pic of you behind your TRG say when you have a perfect sight pic but note whether your neck is strained or you are experiencing another problem or in a position where your position is comfy but you don't have a good sight pic etc then people might be able to offer better suggestions.

Excellent call on the on-line training, you will learn a lot and awesome that you are going to RO for training. They will absolutely get you squared away. I guarantee it.

 

[Graham]

Re: Cheek Weld

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I often find that I am using my neck muscles to support my cheek. Shouldn't my cheek be lying flat on the butt of the rifle without any support from the rest of my body? If so this then leads me to conclude my scope is not setup properly for me. The reason I don't fully place my cheek on the butt of the rifle is that when I do so I don't have a clear view through the scope. I have ordered a cheek spacer for my rifle in hopes this will remediate the issue. Does my line of reasoning seem reasonable or am I overlooking something very obvious?</div></div>If you can, mount the scope lower in lower rings. I like a crush-weld, where my cheek is slightly crushed against the cheek piece, like this guy:

 

[vman]

Re: Cheek Weld

So its ok to mash your face into the stock like that?

I do, and thought maybe I was doing something wrong? But my shootings okay so i dont bother too much

 

[DamnYuppie]

Re: Cheek Weld

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K Mac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I've seen that rifle already has an adjustable cheek piece?

This is copied directly from their website: The base of the STOCK is made of aluminium, to which the polyurethane forestock is attached. The buttstock is also
made of polyurethane and is reinforced through the use of an aluminium skeleton. Spacers allow the cheek piece to
be fully adjustable in height and infinitely adjustable in windage and pitch. </div></div>

Out of the box it only allows for horizontal and pitch adjustments. To raise it higher you have to purchase a separate spacer, which I bought last week and should arrive tomorrow.

Graham that is a good idea. If the spacer doesn't resolve the issue I will look into getting lower rings.

 

[K_Mac]

Re: Cheek Weld

I'm guessing they have different thickness spacers? You should be able to get enough adjustent from that and not have to buy new rings.

 

[DamnYuppie]

Re: Cheek Weld

That is my hope as well. Once I get the spacers in I will post how it all came out.

 

[DamnYuppie]

Re: Cheek Weld

Quick update on this. Today I received the Sako cheek spacer and after getting setup on the rifle it seems to have done the trick. I can now get a proper sight picture through the scope without having to hold my head up using any neck muscles.

Overall I am quite pleased that I will not have to get new rings to lower the scope. Still not sure if that little piece of plastic for the cheek spacer was worth what they charge but it does work so I will not complain about it too much.

Brian

 

[Headgear]

Re: Cheek Weld

Now you need to work on getting on the stock the same way every time. I have not seen the SH online training but with a lot of dry firing and practice at the range, I have gotten to the point where I can close my eyes and get down on my rig and open them and have a perfect sight picture every time. I have an AI stock and I probably made adjustments and readjustments for a month or better to finally get satisfied. I fits like a glove. After a while it will feel like a part of you.

I leave my rig setting in the great room (no children) where I can dry fire through a window on a French door. That way I can flop down on it several times a day. That has helped greatly with learning to get on the rifle the same way every time. I look forward to that almost as much as shooting.

Get that training, keep practicing and you will be deadly.

Please don't take that last line as rhetoric. If you start feeling out of control feelings like you want to do something bad, run quick to a psychiatrist.

 

[doc76251]

Re: Cheek Weld

I wrote this and folks keep asking me for it. It may help.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...894#Post2272894

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Cheek Weld

^^ That's a really good position write-up Doc.

 

[DamnYuppie]

Re: Cheek Weld

That is a great write up! I have been practicing getting right behind the rifle. I believe my alignment is pretty good overall. The issue I was having was that I was a bit too tense in my shoulders. By relaxing as much as possible I find the diopter doesn't bounce around as much, it still moves but mostly up and down with my breathing.

Yet to clarify there is some tension in my left arm, which for me is the one holding the rear bag and butt of the rifle. It isn't a lot but find that I still have to have some exertion from that hand to keep the rifle aimed where I want it. Is this normal or eventually is that arm and hand completely relaxed as well?

Brian

 

[LawnMM]

Re: Cheek Weld

I have a question on cheek weld myself. I fire from different positions, mostly bench and prone so far, obviously this changes the angle of your head and eyeball in relation to the scope.

Is it permissible to set the adjustable cheek piece at a height that allows good support, albeit potentially not FULL support, across the variety of positions so I'm not forced to mash my cheek on bench or lift my head on prone if I have the cheek piece set for one or the other?

I'd like to get into some sitting and tripod shooting as well and thats why I ask.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Cheek Weld

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a question on cheek weld myself. I fire from different positions, mostly bench and prone so far, obviously this changes the angle of your head and eyeball in relation to the scope.

Is it permissible to set the adjustable cheek piece at a height that allows good support, albeit potentially not FULL support, across the variety of positions so I'm not forced to mash my cheek on bench or lift my head on prone if I have the cheek piece set for one or the other?

I'd like to get into some sitting and tripod shooting as well and thats why I ask.
</div></div> This is why I prefer to have the cheek piece topped off with a piece of foam padding that has a bit of give. When necessary, I can go to "crush" weld, but under other normal conditions can just have normal stock weld. For me there is only minimal difference between positions, but everyone's bone structure and positions are different, therefore YMMV....

Set yourself up to be most comfortable/accurate in the prone, and at least capable of getting into the other positions. Adjustments of the cheek rest between positions are dependent on time available and equipment capabilities.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Cheek Weld

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is a great write up! I have been practicing getting right behind the rifle. I believe my alignment is pretty good overall. The issue I was having was that I was a bit too tense in my shoulders. By relaxing as much as possible I find the diopter doesn't bounce around as much, it still moves but mostly up and down with my breathing.

Yet to clarify there is some tension in my left arm, which for me is the one holding the rear bag and butt of the rifle. It isn't a lot but find that I still have to have some exertion from that hand to keep the rifle aimed where I want it. Is this normal or eventually is that arm and hand completely relaxed as well?

Brian</div></div> The real question isn't if you have full muscular relaxation, it's if you are able to maintain your natural point of aim with it. If not, then you need to adjust your position. If you can, and you're not getting the muscle shakes after time effecting your shooting, then you're probably OK with a bit.

 

[LawnMM]

Re: Cheek Weld

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[/quote] This is why I prefer to have the cheek piece topped off with a piece of foam padding that has a bit of give. When necessary, I can go to "crush" weld, but under other normal conditions can just have normal stock weld. For me there is only minimal difference between positions, but everyone's bone structure and positions are different, therefore YMMV....

Set yourself up to be most comfortable/accurate in the prone, and at least capable of getting into the other positions. Adjustments of the cheek rest between positions are dependent on time available and equipment capabilities. </div></div>That makes sense. I have been experimenting. Right now i can get fully supported and good eye relief prone. I would like to get the cheek piece as low as possible while retaining this ability. That should give me the most flexibility.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Cheek Weld

Muscular relaxation in all aspects of the position is important. It serves to identify that the position has been built with consistent relationships between the shooter, gun, and ground. It's this consistency which minimizes the effect of angular error. Go from a so called crush weld, whatever that means, to a muscularly relaxed cheekweld with the full weight of the head "resting" on the comb and you will see vertical dispersion. And since the crush cheek cannot be maintained from shot to shot consistently, the muscularly relaxed stockweld should be a no-brain-er. With some rifles/shooters to get a muscularly relaxed stockweld will require some modification of the stock. For best results-do it.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Cheek Weld

Crush weld is what I always have to use when I'm shooting weak side or am forced into a overly low/weird angle position. It's only for something out of the ordinary, and it's nice to have the ability to do so when necessary.

Like I said earlier, normal shooting positions, especially prone, is normal stock weld and head/neck relaxed.

 

[breezernate]

Re: Cheek Weld

I had to grind some of my cheek pad away to get closer to the centerline of the rifle to get a good cheek weld on my setup. Of course, I don't know if it is best but it seems to relax my neck more because I don't have to cant my head.

Nate