Rifle Scopes Choosing an Athlon scope, not sure the value of the features.

[kjeff91]

• What is the platform for the scope? AR10
• What cartridge are you shooting? 6.5 creedmoor
• What is your intended use for the scope? PRS for fun/getting better at shooting, hunting
• What type of conditions will you typically shoot in? mostly daylight, early morning for hunting twice a year
• What are the typical distances you intend to shoot? Local PRS goes to 1000y sometimes
• Are there any specific specifications you would like? None as of right now
• What is the price range you can afford? Would prefer aroud $600, would go a little more if it's worth it

So I'm looking for a new scope for my AR10 in 6.5 creedmoor and really like what Athlon offers. Being new to this sport of long range, I know what the differences are, but not how important they are and if they're worth the extra money.

The ones I'm looking at are the Argos BTR($360), Helos BTR($570) and Ares BTR ($850).

From what I've read, the Argos and Helos have the same glass, but the Helos has better turrets and locking turrets. I've seen the tracking on both of these and they both are accurate, but the Argos is a little more "mushy". So for $200 more is it worth more tactile and locking turrets?

Then there is the Ares BTR. Over the Helos, it also has HD glass, precision zero stop turrets, "high precision erector system", and more advanced coating. And an "exposed tactical direct dial", not sure how that's different than the other turrets. This optic is $280 more than the Helos and almost $500 more than the Argos.

I don't plan to compete at a high level of competition, more just for having fun and getting better at shooting at longer distances for hunting. I will probably do a local PRS match every other month, maybe every month if I really like it. My gut says to get the Argos and I can spend the extra money on more ammo for more shooting, but I don't want to need to upgrade in a year either when I'm unhappy with something. I just don't know how much value the different optics will hold for me. If there's other similar scopes in the price range I should look at instead, I'd definitely look at those too.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

From what I've read, the Argos and Helos have the same glass, but the Helos has better turrets and locking turrets. I've seen the tracking on both of these and they both are accurate, but the Argos is a little more "mushy". So for $200 more is it worth more tactile and locking turrets? Depends on what you are planning to do more often. If you are planning on doing more PRS matches than hunting I would suggest you go with the Argos BTR because there is a Zero Stop option that you can do that will help you in the matches, but if you are hunting more I would opt for the Helos BTR so you can lock your turrets in place and not have to worry about your zero slipping.

Then there is the Ares BTR. Over the Helos, it also has HD glass, precision zero stop turrets, "high precision erector system", and more advanced coating. And an "exposed tactical direct dial", not sure how that's different than the other turrets. This optic is $280 more than the Helos and almost $500 more than the Argos. This also depends on which one you plan to do more, the difference with this is the Ares BTR has HD glass, at True Zero Stop and redesigned reticle. Better features and better glass. If you are just wanting to shoot for fun and hunt go with the Helos BTR. If you want to compete in PRS go with either the Argos BTR or the Ares BTR. The extra $ for the Ares BTR is totally worth it because of the features that are packed in the price you pay but of course it comes down to what are your major needs.

Of course give a call for your special SH price on any optic that interests you

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[kjeff91]

Thanks for the response! Given what you've said, I guess it is down to deciding between the Argos and Ares. I just think of all the extra ammo I could get if I got the Argos haha.

 

[koshkin]

I do not think there should much of a discussion here. For what you want to do, I would say that Ares is the least expensive acceptable option currently on the market.

I am friendly with the guys at Athlon, and I am not going to score any brownie points with the for saying this, but here it is in the nutshell:
I know the origin of the designs used in Argos and Helos lines. Kudos to Athlon for maintaining decent QC with these, but they are best left for applications where you brag to your friends about your tactical scope and try to avoid shooting beyond 100 yards. It is not a knock on Athlon, but rather on the OEM who makes these. They are taking a very mediocre opto-mechanical design and trying to make it look fashionable.

Ares BTR is an entirely different ballgame, best I can tell. I have been testing one for a bit now. There are things I do not like about it, but for $750$800 or so that it goes for, it is a hell of a deal and pretty much the only full featured scope you can get for that kind of money that actually works. If you want a high magnification FFP scope under $1000, this is basically it. I've had it side-by-side with a bunch of other designs varying from $300 to $1500, so I've got a pretty good idea how it stacks up.

If you have enough saved up to get the Ares, go for it. If you do not, wait and keep saving up.

ILya

 

[kjeff91]

If you want a high magnification FFP scope under $1000, this is basically it. I've had it side-by-side with a bunch of other designs varying from $300 to $1500, so I've got a pretty good idea how it stacks up.

If you have enough saved up to get the Ares, go for it. If you do not, wait and keep saving up.

ILya

Interesting. Nothing at all worth it sub $1k?

 

[308pirate]

I do not think there should much of a discussion here. For what you want to do, I would say that Ares is the least expensive acceptable option currently on the market.

I am friendly with the guys at Athlon, and I am not going to score any brownie points with the for saying this, but here it is in the nutshell:
I know the origin of the designs used in Argos and Helos lines. Kudos to Athlon for maintaining decent QC with these, but they are best left for applications where you brag to your friends about your tactical scope and try to avoid shooting beyond 100 yards. It is not a knock on Athlon, but rather on the OEM who makes these. They are taking a very mediocre opto-mechanical design and trying to make it look fashionable.

Ares BTR is an entirely different ballgame, best I can tell. I have been testing one for a bit now. There are things I do not like about it, but for $750$800 or so that it goes for, it is a hell of a deal and pretty much the only full featured scope you can get for that kind of money that actually works. If you want a high magnification FFP scope under $1000, this is basically it. I've had it side-by-side with a bunch of other designs varying from $300 to $1500, so I've got a pretty good idea how it stacks up.

If you have enough saved up to get the Ares, go for it. If you do not, wait and keep saving up.

ILya

How does the Ares BTR 2.5 - 15X50 stack up mechanically and optically to the SWFA 3-15X42?

 

[steve123]

• What is the price range you can afford? Would prefer around $600, would go a little more if it's worth it

I have 3 Argos BTR 6-24x50's, sold some as well that I used, and friends have 5-6 examples, so I have a fair amount of experience with them. First off it's only a $360 MAP scope, so the fit finish and feel reflect that low price. The turrets aren't the best and that's really been my only complaint. The most recent testimony was the cold bore shot at 978Y and the next two hits on our 15" plate which my friend did. My friends and I have shot perfect scores and I won our state match in freestyle last year with the Argos as our go-to scope. So these cheap scopes are decent entry level scopes and the glass is above the price point!!! The bad is, we've(not me) had to send two back for warranty, both replaced with good working units.

I have a couple friends with the Helos, it is a better scope than the Argos BTR, more so the turret feel, and they are 6 mil revolution vs 5 mil on the Argos, also they lock. Would I rather have the Helos than the Argos, yes. If my finances allowed last year I would have sold my Argos BTR's to replace with the Helos, but I've defaulted to the Talos BTR 4-14x44 as my do all cheap scope to put on the rifles I don't want to spend more money on. Half the reason is I want the 4x on the bottom vs 6x of the Argos BTR on certain rifles and I prefer .2 mil sub-tensions.

Up even more is of course the Ares. 10 mil knobs and ZS, my favorite non Horus reticle, and even more refinement than the previous scopes. After owning the 2.5-15x50, I'd rather have a 4.5-27x50. These two are about the same size and I am fine with 4.5x on the bottom and prefer 27x on top. A friend has one on his AR and it's been a really good scope, everything about it is way above it's price point.

What some people do is move a Talos BTR or Argos BTR from the centerfire to the rimfire or air rifle when they come into some money. Most of my friends have no plans to do that, they are happy to leave them on the centerfire.

 

[koshkin]

Interesting. Nothing at all worth it sub $1k?

It depends on the feature set you want. If you want a robust optomechanical package, there are other options, like the SWFA Classic scopes. However, those are either fixed power or 3-15x scopes. Every once in a while you see scopes on closeout in that range, like Gen 1 Sig Tango6 scopes. That was a screaming deal. Sometimes I see closeout Weavers there, but I do not know what to make out of Weaver these days.

The way my recommendations go, I recommend the Ares (it is not yet on my list of recommendations, but it will be there after the next update) which seems to be around $750. The next step up would be Burris XTR II and Vortex PST Gen 2 which seem to run $200-$300 more.

For any scopes that are lower priced than the Ares (excepting SWFA), I would strongly recommend getting one with a Christmas tree reticle and not using the turrets. Also, be watchful of what happens to your POA as you mess with the parallax adjustment. Majority of the Chinese made scopes I have seen seem to have significant shift when you adjust parallax. SFP ones also shift when you adjust magnification (interestingly HiLux scopes do not do that one). Parallax setting shifts when you adjust magnification. Parallax shifts when you adjust the turrets (that's common for many designs not from China as well).

ILya

 

[koshkin]

How does the Ares BTR 2.5 - 15X50 stack up mechanically and optically to the SWFA 3-15X42?

Hard to say since I have not tested the 2.5-15x50. If I were to make a guess, I would say the SWFA 3-15x42 is a more robust design, or at least it is a much more proven design since it has been out longer. In terms of basic optical quality, it is likely a little better than the Ares in terms of resolution, or at least it is a little better than the 4.5-27x50 version that I have. On the other hand, it is 5mrad per turn, no illumination, no zero stop and no Christmas tree in the reticle. Ares is definitely a more full featured design and it is holding up well so far.

ILya