Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

[pwner50]

Hey guys, I have been recently looking around at different types of bolt action rifles, and I have selected a few .308's which have caught my eye and have fairly positive reviews. My price range is around 1500, I might go up closer to 2000, such as the 1800 range.

Here are some I found, but if anyone knows of any rifles that are better than these, for around the same price or cheaper, I'm all ears. And one more thing, I'm not really into the wooden finishes, its just a personal preference.

Tikka T3 Tactical
FN SPR A1
Kimber 8400 Tactical

So if anyone has any reviews of these or any suggestions of other rifles, please let me know.

Thanks so much!

 

[adluginb]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

What's your budget for the glass to go on top?

 

[tmcginnis]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

In all honesty, and this is with my limited experience (so take this with a grain of salt), but invest in a nice Remington 700 and use the rest for some nice glass and ammo.

Heck, even with the leftover money, you could still send it off and have the receiver and bolt trued, and even a tactical base and a nice set of rings to boot.

The 700 is tried and proven, and the aftermarket is endless.

Also, there seems to be a growing following of savage bolt rifles. Take a look there as well if you are against the Rem 700

If you already have some good optics, look into some of the rifles here for sale. There are some really good deals on here from time to time.

just my .02

 

[Remoah]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

TMcGinnis has it right, you shouldnt overlook a Tuned remington.

I personally own a T3 Varmint, love it and wouldnt change it, but its been difficult getting aftermarket parts and nearly impossible to get any work done on it without it being sent to Germany. Which from Oz is nearly impossible.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

Don't both the FN and Kimber come from the factory with trued actions? I guess if it was my money i'd go FN but that's simply because i've read very good things about them. But, as stated above, a 700 action trued will get you wherever you want to go. If you do go this rout, you will have all the more money to invest in optics, ammo, and equipment.

 

[pwner50]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

My range for glass will range on how much the rifle will cost, but I think I'll spend about 500-800ish on glass, even though I have even seen well reviewed ones for under 500 aswell. I'll also take recommendations on scopes because I am a FNG when it comes to long range shooting (and it will be my first gun).

I did take a look at the Savage with McMillian stock which I liked, but never looked into the 700. I heard that the 700 is very upgradeable, but how much would it cost to get it to perform like a stock tikka tactical rifle, which come good to go with a smooth action and great trigger. Are the 700 or the Savage upgradeable to a point of top level long range target shooting (ex 1000 yards)?

And what do you mean by having the "bolt trued, and even a tactical base and a nice set of rings to boot. "?

thanks so much for the help!

 

[savage110]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

Id get a Rem sps tactical in .308 ($570), your choice of stock from McMillan $500-$700+ a Nightforce 20 MOA base ($110), TPS low rings ($70) and a weaver grandslam 3-10 MIl/MIl optic for $300-$400 to start with.
Shoot the shit out of it and upgrade as you see fit, eventually you will want a custom tube, the action to be trued, a better scope etc.. But you need none of that to learn the fundamentals of shooting LR on.
If you get a set up like the one I described you will have plenty of cash left over for ammo

Here you go:
Rem SPS T
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/42070

McMillan stocks
http://mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-stocks-tactical-stock-list

Base
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=859301

Rings

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=842745

Weaver MIl/MIl
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=598484

Harris Bipod

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=155546

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

Great post, the only change I would make would be to save $200 on the stock and pick a nice B&C then add the $200 on the glass.

OW

 

[vman]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

Yup. With a budget like that I would not overlook a remington.

Also, Bushnell Elite 4200 scopes are being sold at low prices right now due to a change in 2011 product offerings from Bushnell.

Most people into LR shooting that have remingtons end up changing something sooner or later anyway.

 

[exhogflyer]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

I think I'd go with a Remmy or Savage...both great, accurate rifles out of the box.Then take the extra money and spend it on premium glass ( Nightforce?) and high end base and rings ( NF or Badger) and the rest on ammo and shoot the fk out of it.By the time your as good as the rifle you'll know what you need to do to the package for upgrades but at least the optics will be a keeper.

Just saying...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

For the record, the Savage 110 is the oldest continuously produced rifle action made in America.

It is currently marketed in so many versions and variation that it seldom makes sense to deviate from a factory available model.

The newer stocks and triggers are the result of direct response to criticisms, and their design and function makes them preferable to those of other makers.

Their O/O box accuracy is renowned and their cost is reasonable.

So of course, folks don't even consider them.

Business as usual.

 

[bohem]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

I will reflect the statements by several others here and go a step further. A $1500 rifle and $500 glass is backwards. I would buy a Savage (or if you're a RH shooter, a Stevens) and add/replace certain things. For about $500-$800 you have a rifle that will shoot very well. Spend $1250-$1400 on a used Nightforce, take the overall savings and spend it on ammo and shoot more.

 

[bmarc69]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pwner50</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I heard that the 700 is very upgradeable, but how much would it cost to get it to perform like a stock tikka tactical rifle, which come good to go with a smooth action and great trigger. Are the 700 or the Savage upgradeable to a point of top level long range target shooting (ex 1000 yards)? </div></div>
All it takes is the right load for the rifle. I'm currently shooting an SPS varmint in 7mm-08 that was $466 out the door. $350 stock upgrade and 1000 is no problem. Any of the 700 tactical series are capable of 1/2 moa with the right ammo.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

I agree with Bohem, money spent on better optics is better spent.

But I also make very effective use of less costly optics.

The reason I can is because I understand what makes expensive optics more expensive, and how to work around the deficiencies of the cheaper stuff.

Most of the issues with cheaper optics result from less care spent in optimization involving light transmission and optical alignment. Simply put, cheaper optics aren't as bright, sometimes show chromatic aberration, and are susceptible to improper parallax compensation.

Brightness issues are dealt with by recognizing that with more money, you get better performance at dawn/dusk. Avoid dim light conditions, and there is no problem.

Chromatic aberration generally occurs at higher magnifications. If you see it, and it really bothers you, dial down the mags.

Improper parallax compensation can be dealt with by refining the focus to a softer one that renders less or no relative motion between reticle and target when the eye is given some 'yes/no' motion behind the eyepiece. When focus and parallax compensation are not in perfect sync, one can sacrifice some image sharpness in order to address proper parallax compensation, which is the more serious accuracy issue. Properly quartering the image and precise cheekweld repetition can also help with this.

Just because a scope is expensive does not make it immune to these issues. Knowing and using the above steps are valuable no matter what you spend.

Greg

 

[offroadr1]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

if you are set on getting one fo the 3 you mentioned, there is an fn spr a1 in the for sale section now. also as mentioned above you will find yourself quite frustrated with a super nice rifle and a half ass scope. save your pennies and do it right the first time.

 

[snipedogg]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

I also agree with all the guys. You can make a Savage do whatever you want it to do as long as you have the proper optics. Most people outside of this forum would shit their pants at the idea of spending $300 on a scope, let alone $1000+. When my gun was stock, It was a plain Savage model 10 in .308. I put a Choate stock on it for $200 then bought a scope and rings that cost me more than the gun and stock. Needless to say, I could stretch it out to 1000yd with no problem because I had enough magnification, clarity, adjustment, proper parallax, etc.. to get the job done. I was on a $1500 total budget when I put that gun together. You appear to have around $2200 or so. With that, a used NF or Leupold with at least 22-25+ total magnification with a model 10 and a B&C or Choate stock with TPS steel base and rings will be right in your price point and once you decide to upgrade the gun, you can re-barrel with simple tools in your own garage. The only reason I recommend a Savage over a Remington is because you will get much better performance out of the box rather than taking the 50/50 chance with the Remington. Not to mention I personally like their trigger better and the fact that I can work on them myself.

 

[Playerz1337]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

Greg has some good points on optics. I own a few Savage rifles and love them even with stock parts. I added a 20 moa base to mine and threaded the barrel, still cheaper than my custom AR.

 

[gglass]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

I would choose a Remington 700P (~$850) and leave it essentially stock. This will give more to spend on better glass.

My 700P shoots less than quarter MOA straight from the box.

 

[KPK]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

Get a Remington SPS Tactical or AAC-SD (threaded muzzle), good base and rings, and a used Mark 4 Leupold off the classifieds...sit tight and be ready to strike on a good stock in the classifieds as well.

 

[KPK]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

Or a 5r...

 

[sgtshultzy266]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KPK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Or a 5r... </div></div>

With a Super Sniper!!

 

[jeepwilson]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

The ones you have mentioned are good rifles.But you always need to keep in mind are upgrade parts.Remington 700 actions will give you more selection for any part you need in the future when upgrading.Savage is definately striving for the best accuracy out of the box but they are getting pricey.I think if you can find a used 700 would probably br your best bet.Depending on weight and what you are going to do the PSS and SPS,LTR all have pretty good stocks on them.But if you do replace the stock make sure to get one with an aluminum bedding block/skeleton to put on it to keep it from moving in different conditions.I put a HSprecision on mine and like it well.Good luck!

 

[E3C3H3O3]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

I agree with what most have told you so far. Go with the remmy 700 or savage put a little more towards the rings, base, and glass, and a whole ton more towards bullets. Shoot the hell out of it and upgrade as you go. Welcome to the hide and get shooting!

 

[Shortdraw]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

Why not buy one used off the classifieds? There are tons of options. People have loads already worked up, and are willing to take a loss on them. Most people want to sell fast because they have an eye on something else. You could get a slightly used 700P, 5R, or Savage, FN, etc with GOOD glass with that kind of money.

 

[pwner50]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

Wow thanks for all of the suggestions and information guys!

So I'm gonna check out the Remington and the Savage rifles as recommended by all of you, and I'll try to find some used night force scopes. I will also look out for the Bushnell Elite 4200 scopes. Here are some of the slightly more affordable scopes I looked at earlier, are they really that inferior to NF?

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-mark-4-4-5-14x40mm-pr-long-range-rifle-scope.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-vx-3l-35-10x50mm-illum-riflescope.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-vari-x-ii-6-18x40mm-ao-target-rifle-scope.html

Savage110: Thanks for all of the links, and I'll definitely put that list into consideration.

And Greg, thanks for clearing up many things with optics. Just out of curiosity, you said that you know how to use cheaper ones; does that mean that you do?

gglass: That is one great looking rifle, and the groupings are nice. You said leave it "essentially stock", what did you upgrade on it to get that performance?

Also, what makes the fn or tikka rifles cost more? If the Remington and the Savage rifles can also have sub MOA accuracy, is it just the quality of the internals or something else?

thanks so much!

thanks guys!

 

[snipedogg]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

FN and Tikka have very nice features but that doesn't mean they will be more accurate than others. The FN comes with a Mcmillan stock, and the T3 Tactical is Tikkas premier rifle so comparing the prices to a factory Savage or Remington isn't quite fair.

As far as optics, the ones you have listed are no where near Nightforce. I have a Leupold but it is not one of the newer models that have had issues the last few years. I'd suggest Bushnell over Leupold for the prices you have listed. If you want Leupold, get the Mark 4. You could grab one for around $1100 used here and you will know if your getting one with any issues or not. You could also check out the new Vortex Viper PST's that are being released right now. I really like them for their price and when it's time to get another rifle, unless I hit the Lotto, I will be putting a PST on it.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

In my experience, when you buy a Leoupold scope you by the brand name and get an overpriced optic. Save money and look into Super Sniper or Bushnell 3200-4200 series scopes. They are great scopes at fair prices. And of course, IF YOU CAN, get the NightForce. I've never read a bad thing about them. I've read of them driven over by a truck, on their website they have one that was punctured through both sides of the main tube by an enemy bullet (military deployed) and through both situations they continued to perform. These scopes can and will take a major beating, something that Leoupold can't claim.

 

[pwner50]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

Alright well looking at the NF scopes, I found a few I'd consider, and will most likely purchase. Tell me what you guys think of these, and which would you recommend?:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/nightforce-55-22x-nxs-riflescope.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/nightforce-benchrest-riflescopes.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/nightforce-12-42x56-benchrest-riflescopes.html

I would Like a scope in which I can easily see a target at 100yards, but also can see around 1000 yards for when I get a rifle accurate enough for that.

Thanks

 

[Alderleet]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

I'd flip a coin between the Kimber 8400 and SPR A1

I say you pick between what you like. Sure, people have opinions, but they also have assholes too...

Besides, if you dont buy what you really like, you'll always be left with this inane sense of wanting more.

Spending less on the cheaper model because it makes sense, still leaves you disappointed because it isn't what you wanted.

https://www.snipercentral.com/kimber8400.phtml

Heres a great review of the Kimber 8400. If I was in the market for a CRF 308, i would have a hard time between a SPR and a Kimber

If course, you can spend less money on the options posted before, but i still elect to purchase something *I fucking want*. I ignore everyone else's interpretation of better.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

Yes it does. My goto scope is the Tasco VAR624X42M. It has 6-24 magnification, MilDot at 10X, a 42mm Adjustable Objective, Covered 1/4MOA target knobs, focuses down to 15yd, and retails around $79. Not a low light scope, it is still chromatically correct and clear in Summer Midday mirage at 18-20x on 1000yd targets. I have 4 and they are on my 10/22, my MkIIF, my M70 lightweight .30-'06, and my FV200 M700 .222 Rem (this one used to be on my 1000yd F Class Savage 10FP .260 Rem Custom). I have had them since early 2006, and have yet to find any of them at fault.

Greg

 

[300winman]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

Howa is another good rifle that can be had for about 500. They have smooth actions,good triggers and can be outfitted with most stocks out. Even more cash for a good optic. Vortex Vipers are a great scope i have 3 and all track perfectly and have very clear glass

 

[Swift]

Re: Choosing between a few mid ranged rifles

With your budget you should be able to buy or build a really nice stick. Like the others have said, the last place you want to cheap out is on glass.