I want to start off by saying I am no rookie when it comes to long guns. I'm no competitive shooter, but I know more than a thing or two about guns. My family has had an FFL for years. I have way more precision rifles in 6.5, .308, .300, .22-250 than is reasonable. I routinely shoot "long distance" at Marine Base Quantico on the Marine Corps Shooting Team Club's 1000 yard ranges. Im highly educated and I know when I don't know what Im doing. I will always admit when I dont know what I dont know; but occasionally it's something else. This situation is something else... Ive never had an issue like this with any rifle I own from any manufacturer.
Around Christmas, I bought an MPR in .300 Win Mag with the 26 inch carbon fiber barrel. I mounted a Razor ii in a Spuhr unimount. Picture of the gun below.
I proceeded to take it to my local indoor range to zero the rifle and chrono loads before taking it out to my outdoor thousand. CAs recommends a "barrel break in" that is completely ridiculous. Check it out on their website. I forwent any break in as its <nonsense> (this will become relevant later) and began attempting to zero my rifle. I spend two hours shooting Hornady 178 ELD Match. At 100 my first group completely covered edge to edge of a standard ST-4. Like truly thought something was broken. Such a large group it wasn't even measurable. Due to this, I brought in my target to 50 with a fresh target and began again, hoping to get a group closer and figure out what was going on. I allowed for about a 10 minute break. At 50, I would be able to get a 3 or 4 round group in a roughly 4 inch group (still so unacceptable) and then I'd get a unpredictable POI shift from 4 to 10! inches. And would be completely back to square one attempting to figure out what the hell was going on. I mean I still hadn't even gotten a rough zero. After 5 strings the groups were so open I had trouble identifying which shot was from which string on the 4 quadrants of my ST-4. This continued for TWO HOURS with different lengths of time to cool the barrel, putting up fresh targets, readjusting my rear bag (at one point I started questioning my sanity and if I even knew how to shoot), and trying every thing I could think of. I'd readjust my Razor ii zero and what do you know, if it wouldn't jump halfway across the paper again. I ended up giving in after two hours of chasing zero and way way way too many rounds of .300 match ammo... Nowhere closer to having any resemblance of a zero. I should have saved the targets but I was so pissed I didn't think about grabbing them. Sorry.
It's heat soak guys... It's heat soak... Like all these reports of heat issues with CA barrels are completely true. I DEFENDED CA against these rumors when I first got this gun. How wrong I was... The occurrence of POI shift would roughly correspond to the length of time between strings. However, no POI shift was ever the same and never returned to a previous zero. It was not consistent either and I'd experience groups and group shifts from 4 inches to over 10 inches. And before anyone suggest I don't know how to mount a scope... I checked all rail screws with a inlb torque wrench. I mounted the Spuhr and Razor using manufacture specs, using rosin on the interior of the rings and triple checking all torque readings. Unless my brand new Razor ii has a SERIOUS problem (which we all know is extremely unlikely) then its most likely the gun. Also the fact the POI shift would change relative to round count and periods of rest is really indicative of bad barrel deficiencies.
I called Christensen Arms and received a rude reception. The guy on the other end started off by condescendingly asking if I hadn't followed their break in. That I should have followed their break in. IMO CA having this policy on their website is just an out to allow them to brush off defects on to the owner. It's well known that modern barrels see ZERO improvements with break in. Tolerance and modern milling means there is no need for a "break in" anymore. When I walked the rep through my barn sized groupings and insane wandering zero, the CA representative was entirely dismissive and LAUGHED saying "well yeah this happens to all guns when they heat up". Like yeah thanks for that wisdom guy. Like thats basic physics, pretty sure its called the thermodynamics... Obviously hot barrels have a POI shift. But a shift AND spread of 4 -10 inches at 100 yards for a $2,300!!!! rifle is absolutely bat shit insane... like insane. The CA rep then proceeded to tell me that using 178s was also the problem and that 200grs would shrink it to sub MOA. like... no words... Obviously certain guns don't run certain pills well, but at a 100 yards, you cant tell me a different grain is going to fix a 10! inch shift and a group I can't even measure. After talking for 10 minutes the rep begrudgingly offered me to send in my rifle under warranty but I was so pissed I said I'd call him back if/when I decide to do so.
I have defended CA's, before I even shot this rifle, in this. They have a stellar reputation. They have won precision gun of the year. Always sold out online. I was THRILLED to pick up this rifle and told everyone this was to be my lifetime precision gun. I don't make a ton of money. It took months and months of saving to be able to purchase this rifle. For $2,400 this thing should be resilient and reliable. Obviously guns have a POI shift but it should be at least be repeatable or make some sense. And it sure as shit shouldn't be a 10in shift at a 100 yards in a .300 made to shoot at a thousand. If I could sell this monstrosity and buy an MPA, or hell even another budget ass plastic ass Savage (I <3 my savage, no offense to you) Id do it in an instant. But truly I wouldn't even be able to bring myself to dump this garbage off on someone else. Many people may have good experience with CA but it isn't worth the risk of getting one of these lemons.
I went from defending Christensen Arms, to urging people to never buy one of these rifles. What the hell Christensen Arms...
Around Christmas, I bought an MPR in .300 Win Mag with the 26 inch carbon fiber barrel. I mounted a Razor ii in a Spuhr unimount. Picture of the gun below.
I proceeded to take it to my local indoor range to zero the rifle and chrono loads before taking it out to my outdoor thousand. CAs recommends a "barrel break in" that is completely ridiculous. Check it out on their website. I forwent any break in as its <nonsense> (this will become relevant later) and began attempting to zero my rifle. I spend two hours shooting Hornady 178 ELD Match. At 100 my first group completely covered edge to edge of a standard ST-4. Like truly thought something was broken. Such a large group it wasn't even measurable. Due to this, I brought in my target to 50 with a fresh target and began again, hoping to get a group closer and figure out what was going on. I allowed for about a 10 minute break. At 50, I would be able to get a 3 or 4 round group in a roughly 4 inch group (still so unacceptable) and then I'd get a unpredictable POI shift from 4 to 10! inches. And would be completely back to square one attempting to figure out what the hell was going on. I mean I still hadn't even gotten a rough zero. After 5 strings the groups were so open I had trouble identifying which shot was from which string on the 4 quadrants of my ST-4. This continued for TWO HOURS with different lengths of time to cool the barrel, putting up fresh targets, readjusting my rear bag (at one point I started questioning my sanity and if I even knew how to shoot), and trying every thing I could think of. I'd readjust my Razor ii zero and what do you know, if it wouldn't jump halfway across the paper again. I ended up giving in after two hours of chasing zero and way way way too many rounds of .300 match ammo... Nowhere closer to having any resemblance of a zero. I should have saved the targets but I was so pissed I didn't think about grabbing them. Sorry.
It's heat soak guys... It's heat soak... Like all these reports of heat issues with CA barrels are completely true. I DEFENDED CA against these rumors when I first got this gun. How wrong I was... The occurrence of POI shift would roughly correspond to the length of time between strings. However, no POI shift was ever the same and never returned to a previous zero. It was not consistent either and I'd experience groups and group shifts from 4 inches to over 10 inches. And before anyone suggest I don't know how to mount a scope... I checked all rail screws with a inlb torque wrench. I mounted the Spuhr and Razor using manufacture specs, using rosin on the interior of the rings and triple checking all torque readings. Unless my brand new Razor ii has a SERIOUS problem (which we all know is extremely unlikely) then its most likely the gun. Also the fact the POI shift would change relative to round count and periods of rest is really indicative of bad barrel deficiencies.
I called Christensen Arms and received a rude reception. The guy on the other end started off by condescendingly asking if I hadn't followed their break in. That I should have followed their break in. IMO CA having this policy on their website is just an out to allow them to brush off defects on to the owner. It's well known that modern barrels see ZERO improvements with break in. Tolerance and modern milling means there is no need for a "break in" anymore. When I walked the rep through my barn sized groupings and insane wandering zero, the CA representative was entirely dismissive and LAUGHED saying "well yeah this happens to all guns when they heat up". Like yeah thanks for that wisdom guy. Like thats basic physics, pretty sure its called the thermodynamics... Obviously hot barrels have a POI shift. But a shift AND spread of 4 -10 inches at 100 yards for a $2,300!!!! rifle is absolutely bat shit insane... like insane. The CA rep then proceeded to tell me that using 178s was also the problem and that 200grs would shrink it to sub MOA. like... no words... Obviously certain guns don't run certain pills well, but at a 100 yards, you cant tell me a different grain is going to fix a 10! inch shift and a group I can't even measure. After talking for 10 minutes the rep begrudgingly offered me to send in my rifle under warranty but I was so pissed I said I'd call him back if/when I decide to do so.
I have defended CA's, before I even shot this rifle, in this. They have a stellar reputation. They have won precision gun of the year. Always sold out online. I was THRILLED to pick up this rifle and told everyone this was to be my lifetime precision gun. I don't make a ton of money. It took months and months of saving to be able to purchase this rifle. For $2,400 this thing should be resilient and reliable. Obviously guns have a POI shift but it should be at least be repeatable or make some sense. And it sure as shit shouldn't be a 10in shift at a 100 yards in a .300 made to shoot at a thousand. If I could sell this monstrosity and buy an MPA, or hell even another budget ass plastic ass Savage (I <3 my savage, no offense to you) Id do it in an instant. But truly I wouldn't even be able to bring myself to dump this garbage off on someone else. Many people may have good experience with CA but it isn't worth the risk of getting one of these lemons.
I went from defending Christensen Arms, to urging people to never buy one of these rifles. What the hell Christensen Arms...
