How come you dont see more folks using chrome Molly barrels especially for tactical type shooting. What i mean is, Most folks that do tactical builds paint there barrels anyway, so why not use a chrome moly barrel blank for the build? Will a chrome barrel not shoot as good as a stainless barrel? Will they not last as long? Whats the down side to them? I am thinking about doing another tactical/hunting rig this year, and i have been looking at shilen barrels. I can get a shilen Match grade chrome barrel varmint contour 8 twist .264 for 150 bucks. I am going to paint the darn thing after its done so why wouldnt i want to use a barrel like this. Its not really a money thing. If I have enough folks tell me they suck then i wont buy one. I just thought for pig hunting, coyote hunting, and deer hunting , and steel plate shooting, how bad could they be? Whats the scoop? Thanks Lee
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Gunsmithing chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
Some barrel makers don't offer a chrome steel barrel any more. But I would not have a problem shooting one. I have a few older rifles that still have the factory chrome steel barrels. There's nothing wrong with them.
Some barrel makers don't offer a chrome steel barrel any more. But I would not have a problem shooting one. I have a few older rifles that still have the factory chrome steel barrels. There's nothing wrong with them.
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
I've got 5 chrome moly barrels on my guns (match/tactical rifles etc...) all shoot great.
If I had to pick one to last longer I would lean towards the c.m. based on what I see and also data from ammunition makers that we make ammunition test barrels for but it's too hard to put a number on it unless someone would do a good test comparison.
The difference in barrel life in the real world is most likely negligible.
I might say you might see a little more copper fouling in a cm vs. ss. It's like taking chalk and writing on a black board. The chalk being copper and the black board being cm steel. It will stand out. Take the same white chalk and write on a white side walk (the white side walk being ss barrel) it's there but doesn't stand out as much.
It's nothing I lose any sleep over and the guns shoot fantastic. My cm barrels shoot every bit as good as my ss.
Not to many barrel makers offer cm in my opinion is because the demand isn't there. The only guys for the most part who want a cm barrel is for a traditional hunting type rifle and want the barrel blued.
The only other thing to think about is that the cm needs a little more care vs the ss to prevent rust etc....ss is not impervious to corrosion though. You cannot ignore a ss and need to protect it as well but it is more forgiving.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
I've got 5 chrome moly barrels on my guns (match/tactical rifles etc...) all shoot great.
If I had to pick one to last longer I would lean towards the c.m. based on what I see and also data from ammunition makers that we make ammunition test barrels for but it's too hard to put a number on it unless someone would do a good test comparison.
The difference in barrel life in the real world is most likely negligible.
I might say you might see a little more copper fouling in a cm vs. ss. It's like taking chalk and writing on a black board. The chalk being copper and the black board being cm steel. It will stand out. Take the same white chalk and write on a white side walk (the white side walk being ss barrel) it's there but doesn't stand out as much.
It's nothing I lose any sleep over and the guns shoot fantastic. My cm barrels shoot every bit as good as my ss.
Not to many barrel makers offer cm in my opinion is because the demand isn't there. The only guys for the most part who want a cm barrel is for a traditional hunting type rifle and want the barrel blued.
The only other thing to think about is that the cm needs a little more care vs the ss to prevent rust etc....ss is not impervious to corrosion though. You cannot ignore a ss and need to protect it as well but it is more forgiving.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
CM rusts a lot easier than stainless. If I'm going to spend the money on a new tube I'll pay just a tiny bit extra to get SS for that reason alone.
CM rusts a lot easier than stainless. If I'm going to spend the money on a new tube I'll pay just a tiny bit extra to get SS for that reason alone.
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CM rusts a lot easier than stainless. If I'm going to spend the money on a new tube I'll pay just a tiny bit extra to get SS for that reason alone.
</div></div>
I have mostly CM tubes, and the cost isn't a "tiny bit" for a shilen barrel, it's 70% more.
I like the way CM cuts much better than SS and I finish my barrels either with some sort of bake on finish or I blue them up for a classic rifle that's wearing wood furniture.
Is the action on your rifle SS or CM? Based on that logic, a CM action is going to rust out, you should be using a SS one instead.
I go with the CM barrels if the manufacturer offers it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CM rusts a lot easier than stainless. If I'm going to spend the money on a new tube I'll pay just a tiny bit extra to get SS for that reason alone.
</div></div>
I have mostly CM tubes, and the cost isn't a "tiny bit" for a shilen barrel, it's 70% more.
I like the way CM cuts much better than SS and I finish my barrels either with some sort of bake on finish or I blue them up for a classic rifle that's wearing wood furniture.
Is the action on your rifle SS or CM? Based on that logic, a CM action is going to rust out, you should be using a SS one instead.
I go with the CM barrels if the manufacturer offers it.
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
Frank,
There is one difference I look at with the two barrel steels and that is how the throat condition looks after x rounds. SS looks like an alligator back, CM looks more rough gravelly, and fine line dispersion ahead of the throat. The stainless barrels, though the throat looks rough still shoot til they dont, til that mudcake gives up the ghost, the CM barrels I used to see more vertical stringing at a point when it really didn't look that bad. BUT, it does seem shooting moly boolets in CM barrels does help that. It'll be interesting to view the refurbs when they start rolling in to make a better assessment.
later
Frank,
There is one difference I look at with the two barrel steels and that is how the throat condition looks after x rounds. SS looks like an alligator back, CM looks more rough gravelly, and fine line dispersion ahead of the throat. The stainless barrels, though the throat looks rough still shoot til they dont, til that mudcake gives up the ghost, the CM barrels I used to see more vertical stringing at a point when it really didn't look that bad. BUT, it does seem shooting moly boolets in CM barrels does help that. It'll be interesting to view the refurbs when they start rolling in to make a better assessment.
later
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
JR
I can tell you what the barrels will look like on the rifles that come back for refurb. RUST!! I have not seen one rifle returned to the company you work for that was shot out, but a lot of them rusted out. You can not shoot a CM barrel and let set with out cleaning like some on here do with their stainless barrels.
Alan
JR
I can tell you what the barrels will look like on the rifles that come back for refurb. RUST!! I have not seen one rifle returned to the company you work for that was shot out, but a lot of them rusted out. You can not shoot a CM barrel and let set with out cleaning like some on here do with their stainless barrels.
Alan
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
I'd agree AJ, except for the climate most of the barrels are returning. I can spot rust before and after shot..
I'd agree AJ, except for the climate most of the barrels are returning. I can spot rust before and after shot..
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
JR, I agree that they do wear differently. I almost made the comment but thought about it and didn't at the time. It opens a another topic for discussion.
Yes I have seen them wear differently but I think in the real world it doesn't make a ton of difference. I also think the caliber the barrel is chambered makes a difference also.
We made two dozen AR15/M16 barrels for Lackland AF Base several years ago for they're service rifles. The armorer called and asked how long the barrels should go for life. I asked if there was a problem and he said no and that the barrels where at 10K rounds and still shooting. I told him I would get more in the works and not wait till they all of sudden start dying. Most S.S. AR barrels we made and I looked at by good shooters who keep really good data etc.....where getting 6K, 8K and up to 10K rounds out of them.
So yes they do wear differently when you look at them. I know Boots has said something about moly bullets and c.m. barrels helped life or the wearing in the throat also. Good point to bring up.
Later, Frank
JR, I agree that they do wear differently. I almost made the comment but thought about it and didn't at the time. It opens a another topic for discussion.
Yes I have seen them wear differently but I think in the real world it doesn't make a ton of difference. I also think the caliber the barrel is chambered makes a difference also.
We made two dozen AR15/M16 barrels for Lackland AF Base several years ago for they're service rifles. The armorer called and asked how long the barrels should go for life. I asked if there was a problem and he said no and that the barrels where at 10K rounds and still shooting. I told him I would get more in the works and not wait till they all of sudden start dying. Most S.S. AR barrels we made and I looked at by good shooters who keep really good data etc.....where getting 6K, 8K and up to 10K rounds out of them.
So yes they do wear differently when you look at them. I know Boots has said something about moly bullets and c.m. barrels helped life or the wearing in the throat also. Good point to bring up.
Later, Frank
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Is the action on your rifle SS or CM? Based on that logic, a CM action is going to rust out, you should be using a SS one instead.
</div></div>
I agree.
My surgeon is stainless and I wish my M2008 was. Kinda bummed the APEX wasn't, still trying to make up my mind on if I'm gonna pop for that one or not. Hell, I hate the fact that the socket-head screws on most rings and such aren't stainless. Go shooting in one little rain storm and they'll be rusty-red by the time you get home. I shudder to think what the inside of a CM barrel is doing. I suppose you could immediately break the gun down and run oil patches through everything the instant you finish shooting, but I think the gun should work for me and not the other way around. If it can't wait until I get home to be cleaned without rusting up on me then it doesn't get to play in the rain.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Is the action on your rifle SS or CM? Based on that logic, a CM action is going to rust out, you should be using a SS one instead.
</div></div>
I agree.
My surgeon is stainless and I wish my M2008 was. Kinda bummed the APEX wasn't, still trying to make up my mind on if I'm gonna pop for that one or not. Hell, I hate the fact that the socket-head screws on most rings and such aren't stainless. Go shooting in one little rain storm and they'll be rusty-red by the time you get home. I shudder to think what the inside of a CM barrel is doing. I suppose you could immediately break the gun down and run oil patches through everything the instant you finish shooting, but I think the gun should work for me and not the other way around. If it can't wait until I get home to be cleaned without rusting up on me then it doesn't get to play in the rain.
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
would a chrome barrel in a 260AI be a bad idea? lEE
would a chrome barrel in a 260AI be a bad idea? lEE
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">would a chrome barrel in a 260AI be a bad idea? lEE</div></div>
It will work good if you clean it.
Alan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">would a chrome barrel in a 260AI be a bad idea? lEE</div></div>
It will work good if you clean it.
Alan
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
I have the factory CM tube on my .308 700. It's at 2500 rounds right now.
It shoots pretty dang well. It gets cleaned about 500-600 rounds through it, drug through the field, etc. It works just fine. It's a work gun so it doesn't see an easy life. It spent a week in the rain at a school and the only problems I has was the receiver and safety starting to get surface rust. Where the barrel was free-floated it could dry so it didn't rust even with the matte blue finish.
Notice nothing ahead of the recoil lug is rusty. Oh, and there wasn't any rust in the barrel.
Now I don't know jack compared to AJ and Frank. I am just a trigger puller. However, I am less concerned about what the barrel is made out of then how it's finished.
I have the factory CM tube on my .308 700. It's at 2500 rounds right now.
It shoots pretty dang well. It gets cleaned about 500-600 rounds through it, drug through the field, etc. It works just fine. It's a work gun so it doesn't see an easy life. It spent a week in the rain at a school and the only problems I has was the receiver and safety starting to get surface rust. Where the barrel was free-floated it could dry so it didn't rust even with the matte blue finish.
Notice nothing ahead of the recoil lug is rusty. Oh, and there wasn't any rust in the barrel.
Now I don't know jack compared to AJ and Frank. I am just a trigger puller. However, I am less concerned about what the barrel is made out of then how it's finished.
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Is the action on your rifle SS or CM? Based on that logic, a CM action is going to rust out, you should be using a SS one instead.
</div></div>
I agree.
My surgeon is stainless and I wish my M2008 was. Kinda bummed the APEX wasn't, still trying to make up my mind on if I'm gonna pop for that one or not. Hell, I hate the fact that the socket-head screws on most rings and such aren't stainless. Go shooting in one little rain storm and they'll be rusty-red by the time you get home. I shudder to think what the inside of a CM barrel is doing. I suppose you could immediately break the gun down and run oil patches through everything the instant you finish shooting, but I think the gun should work for me and not the other way around. If it can't wait until I get home to be cleaned without rusting up on me then it doesn't get to play in the rain.
</div></div>
Unless you're holding the muzzle of your rifle up so that water runs down into it I doubt that you're going to see the rust that you imagine is there. I've never found rust in a bore after coming home from a nasty weather day at the range or in the woods. The powder fouling, copper fouling, and essentially enclosed space makes for far less exposure than you might expect.
I always make sure to run an oiled patch through it if the weather's been nasty, but numerous times I've been out in nasty weather and inspected the bore for any kinds of rust, even a day later, and there's nothing.
If you get a 50 year old CR that's been sitting in the attic for the last 47 years and run a patch down the bore they usually come out with some red in them, so it's easy to see what you're looking for.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Is the action on your rifle SS or CM? Based on that logic, a CM action is going to rust out, you should be using a SS one instead.
</div></div>
I agree.
My surgeon is stainless and I wish my M2008 was. Kinda bummed the APEX wasn't, still trying to make up my mind on if I'm gonna pop for that one or not. Hell, I hate the fact that the socket-head screws on most rings and such aren't stainless. Go shooting in one little rain storm and they'll be rusty-red by the time you get home. I shudder to think what the inside of a CM barrel is doing. I suppose you could immediately break the gun down and run oil patches through everything the instant you finish shooting, but I think the gun should work for me and not the other way around. If it can't wait until I get home to be cleaned without rusting up on me then it doesn't get to play in the rain.
</div></div>
Unless you're holding the muzzle of your rifle up so that water runs down into it I doubt that you're going to see the rust that you imagine is there. I've never found rust in a bore after coming home from a nasty weather day at the range or in the woods. The powder fouling, copper fouling, and essentially enclosed space makes for far less exposure than you might expect.
I always make sure to run an oiled patch through it if the weather's been nasty, but numerous times I've been out in nasty weather and inspected the bore for any kinds of rust, even a day later, and there's nothing.
If you get a 50 year old CR that's been sitting in the attic for the last 47 years and run a patch down the bore they usually come out with some red in them, so it's easy to see what you're looking for.
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JR, I agree that they do wear differently. I almost made the comment but thought about it and didn't at the time. It opens a another topic for discussion.
Yes I have seen them wear differently but I think in the real world it doesn't make a ton of difference. I also think the caliber the barrel is chambered makes a difference also.
We made two dozen AR15/M16 barrels for Lackland AF Base several years ago for they're service rifles. The armorer called and asked how long the barrels should go for life. I asked if there was a problem and he said no and that the barrels where at 10K rounds and still shooting. I told him I would get more in the works and not wait till they all of sudden start dying. Most S.S. AR barrels we made and I looked at by good shooters who keep really good data etc.....where getting 6K, 8K and up to 10K rounds out of them.
So yes they do wear differently when you look at them. I know Boots has said something about moly bullets and c.m. barrels helped life or the wearing in the throat also. Good point to bring up.
Later, Frank </div></div>
Caliber, powder charge/bore ratio, rate of fire, barrel care, indeed it all makes a difference.
later
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JR, I agree that they do wear differently. I almost made the comment but thought about it and didn't at the time. It opens a another topic for discussion.
Yes I have seen them wear differently but I think in the real world it doesn't make a ton of difference. I also think the caliber the barrel is chambered makes a difference also.
We made two dozen AR15/M16 barrels for Lackland AF Base several years ago for they're service rifles. The armorer called and asked how long the barrels should go for life. I asked if there was a problem and he said no and that the barrels where at 10K rounds and still shooting. I told him I would get more in the works and not wait till they all of sudden start dying. Most S.S. AR barrels we made and I looked at by good shooters who keep really good data etc.....where getting 6K, 8K and up to 10K rounds out of them.
So yes they do wear differently when you look at them. I know Boots has said something about moly bullets and c.m. barrels helped life or the wearing in the throat also. Good point to bring up.
Later, Frank </div></div>
Caliber, powder charge/bore ratio, rate of fire, barrel care, indeed it all makes a difference.
later
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> .. chrome moly barrel blank.. i have been looking at shilen barrels. I can get a shilen Match grade chrome barrel varmint contour 8 twist .264 for 150 bucks. .. </div></div>
$154 is the wholesale price for gunsmiths.
I have bought a couple CM Shilen barrels at the wholesale price from a reseller. I did not like they way they fouled. Ed Shilen said to buy a Stainless [which are all lapped] or pay the extra for lapping the CM. But Ed will not give me whole sale prices, and the reseller does not carry the the lapped CM barrels.
So I just buy the Shilen Stainless.
For CM barrels, the Lothar Walther lapped barrels is what I have been buying.
In skinny barrel tapers, CM may have an advantage.
In fat barrels, SS may have the advantage.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> .. chrome moly barrel blank.. i have been looking at shilen barrels. I can get a shilen Match grade chrome barrel varmint contour 8 twist .264 for 150 bucks. .. </div></div>
$154 is the wholesale price for gunsmiths.
I have bought a couple CM Shilen barrels at the wholesale price from a reseller. I did not like they way they fouled. Ed Shilen said to buy a Stainless [which are all lapped] or pay the extra for lapping the CM. But Ed will not give me whole sale prices, and the reseller does not carry the the lapped CM barrels.
So I just buy the Shilen Stainless.
For CM barrels, the Lothar Walther lapped barrels is what I have been buying.
In skinny barrel tapers, CM may have an advantage.
In fat barrels, SS may have the advantage.
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
I will most Likely just go with a stainless barrel anyway, but the price of these CM blanks sure are tempting! Won't the CM barrels finally stop coopering up? I would have to think that after a coupe hundred rounds all would be good? But i dont know! Lee
I will most Likely just go with a stainless barrel anyway, but the price of these CM blanks sure are tempting! Won't the CM barrels finally stop coopering up? I would have to think that after a coupe hundred rounds all would be good? But i dont know! Lee
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
I would venture to guess coppering would slow considerbly after all voids that could hold it have filled in enough to give you a slick "finish". That's what you're after anyway, ain't it? If I didn't already get a great deal on a SS blank for my Johnny Cash rifle, i'd get 2 CM ones for almost the same price as the SS. The way you build stuff, that might be a considerable savings. Just remember, Anti-seize(non copper based) is your friend!! Duke.
I would venture to guess coppering would slow considerbly after all voids that could hold it have filled in enough to give you a slick "finish". That's what you're after anyway, ain't it? If I didn't already get a great deal on a SS blank for my Johnny Cash rifle, i'd get 2 CM ones for almost the same price as the SS. The way you build stuff, that might be a considerable savings. Just remember, Anti-seize(non copper based) is your friend!! Duke.
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
My CM has very little copper fouling that shows up. It gets cleaned when the groups open, usually I get around 500 rounds before I clean it up.
CM isn't too hard to cut for a set back, that's a complete myth. I've seen it done with HSS and Carbide cutters, no worries.
My CM has very little copper fouling that shows up. It gets cleaned when the groups open, usually I get around 500 rounds before I clean it up.
CM isn't too hard to cut for a set back, that's a complete myth. I've seen it done with HSS and Carbide cutters, no worries.
Re: chrome molly barrells for a tactical build??
I believe this calls for a test. I think I will get 2 barrels chambered up on surgeon actions. 2, straight 243's or 6xc's and start shooting them. One CM and one stainless. No everything won't be equal but it will give us a rough estimate.
I believe this calls for a test. I think I will get 2 barrels chambered up on surgeon actions. 2, straight 243's or 6xc's and start shooting them. One CM and one stainless. No everything won't be equal but it will give us a rough estimate.
