Chrono factory match ammo - any benefit?

[justpassingthru]

So I think I've decided not to get into reloading at this point. Mainly because I only get to shoot maybe 2-3x a month because time is limited in the day.

So I've picked up a bunch of Berger 140 hybrid ammo and still have a good bit of Hornady 140 match as well as some Norma Golden Target 143 (match).

So my question is would a chrono be of any benefit in selecting from the various factory match loads available or just pick one and shoot it? I kinda stocked up on the Berger more than anything (3 cases) because of the brass should i decide to reload or even for resell so this is kind of a question in hindsight.
Do the numbers from the chrono mean a whole lot or just shoot it and see what groups best? My local range is 400yds max but occasionaly go out to Thunder Valley in OH where they go out to a 1000yds (and a mile).

Was thinking of getting a Magnetospeed V3

Thanks

 

[spife7980]

If you want to know how fast your ammo is you’ll need to.
Or you can just shoot and correct and try to work into it backwards.
Chrono is the easy way though.

 

[justpassingthru]

Thanks, do the ES/SD numbers translate into better ammo for my gun? I feel my marksmanship is improving, I consistently shoot 3/4" to 1 MOA with the Berger and Hornady but know I have to improve.
I guess what I'm saying is I don't feel at this point my shooting is the best judge of good ammo, will a chronograph help me (numbers wise) to commit to a good factory match ammo? Seems to me the lower SD/ES numbers indicate greater consistency (if I'm understanding all this correctly)

 

[spife7980]

It can. Velocity numbers aren’t the be all end all. Shoot each in paper and see what actually does best. Then buy more of that.

Velocity numbers help when you want to enter your data into a calculator and have the correct dialing solution for whatever extended distance without having to burn ammo figuring it out.

 

[FourT6and2]

Much easier to just chrono 10 rounds rather than working backwards at distance.

 

[justpassingthru]

I ordered the Magnetospeed V3. Any recommendation between the wiser precision or MK Machining attachment?

 

[Rob01]

I have the Wiser Precision Magnetospeed mount and really like it. Easy to adjust and solid. It has an adjustment that allows for angle adjustment which is nice if not on perfectly level forends.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

MK is best but I found that the set screws were too small and I increased the size of them all. It's not a fantastic set up that doesn't ever move. It was pretty good before and my wise mount broke so...

 

[Rob01]

my wise mount broke so...

How did you break it?

 

[021411]

Wiser Chrono Mount Pro. Retarded easy to adjust on the fly. I guess shit happens but don’t see how it would break during normal usage.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

By the time you buy a msv3, mounts accessories you are getting closer to andiscan prices.

And yes you need your MV. It's one of the critical variables for an accurate firing solution.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

How did you break it?

It just cracked. I'm not really sure but the mount cracked. It world also move after a while. I guess most only shoot a little bit with the chrono but I shoot a lot with it on so I can get real numbers.

 

[FourT6and2]

I wouldn't get any additional accessories or mounts honestly. Throw the chrono on your barrel, record 10 shots and you're done. You won't need it again until you change lots of ammo or ammo type. I've used my MagnetoSpeed only a handful of times over the last few years because I buy consistent factory ammo in large lots and my rifle shoots it great. If you're gonna be using the chrono a lot, then cool... go nuts with accessories. But I haven't personally found a need for anything crazy.

 

[021411]

Valuable tool if you’re shooting matches. Check your zero without anything strapped to the barrel while collecting your match morning velocity especially if your powder is temp sensitive.

 

[Rob01]

It just cracked. I'm not really sure but the mount cracked. It world also move after a while. I guess most only shoot a little bit with the chrono but I shoot a lot with it on so I can get real numbers.

Sounds more like an exception than the rule. Probably just broke like anything can. Did you contact them? I use mine a lot and never an issue.

As to why to have the mount versus the barrel mounting, it’s so much easier to use the mount and get it set up for different barrels with the mount and not have to worry about having the proper height of spacer to use. I used it on the barrel with my V2 for years and can tell you the mount is the way to go.

 

[FNG1001]

I've gone back and forth on whether a magnetospeed mount is neceesarry, and if so, which (MK Machining vs Wiser). MagnetoSpeed is a good investment imo.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

It's nessisary if you want to be able to zero without poi shift once you take it off. Heavier the barrel the less influence but it's still there, no different than throwing a tuner on the end.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I've gone back and forth on whether a magnetospeed mount is neceesarry, and if so, which (MK Machining vs Wiser). MagnetoSpeed is a good investment imo.

It's a necessity. Mkm is best but it's a lot better still if you install all larger set screws.

 

[Schw15]

The wiser pro is awesome and build very well. It's way better than there first version and simple to adjust on the fly. I use mine a lot just collecting data or shoot with it to see how stable my ammo is in different Temps.

 

[spamassassin]

At 400yrds it takes a major velocity variation to affect drops noticeably. Until you start flinging lead a good ways further than that a chronograph is just an expensive toy. If you start extending your distances to 600+ then you might find it useful for characterizing your ammo. If you start reloading then it's a helpful and occasionally important tool.

 

[wade2big]

A chrono isn’t necessary at all if you have a range to shoot at least 500 yards. Further is better. Estimate the muzzle velocity in a ballistic app, dial your scope, and then tag the plate. Measure the distance from the hit to your aiming point with your reticle. Add or subtract this measurement from what you originally dialed and then input a velocity number in a ballistic ap and make changes until your actual drop lines up with the number spit out by the app. You now found your muzzle velocity without a chrono. You can do this faster than you could set up a chrono.

 

[hlee]

A mount for the magnetospeed is not necessary. Zero the rifle without the MS attached to the barrel. Attach the MS and fire a statistically significant number of rounds over it. Record the MV, SD, ES, and temperature. Remove the MS. You can collect MV data in a roaring gale, or at a 15y indoor range (assuming they allow the cartridge on the range). You can collet it in the rain, or snow, at night or at high noon. Honestly, you don’t even need sights. MV data, because you are chronoing factory ammunition, doesn’t even require that the bullet hits a target. You’re not going to hunt, compete, or plink with the MS attached- MKM mount or not. Who cares what the poi shift is when you use it?

 

[SRPowah]

I know OP ordered a chrono but for anyone else that comes in here:
I have been shooting factory ammo out to 1000 yards for over 10 years and have never used a chrono with factory ammo to determine my calc input. Working backwards takes little time and effort for me with success out to 1200 yards, but you have to have the time, distance, barrel life, and financial means to do it. I would personally put that money into reloading gear before a chrono if you are trying to pinch pennies.

However, if you have the funds, just get a chrono. Do it. The fact that you can get an accurate MV very quickly on location with minimal rounds fired and no distance required (you can use a dirt berm ffs) saves you time, ammo, barrel life, money, and will be a very useful if you do start reloading. It will pay for itself over time, so the sooner the better.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Weaponized math

Enough said

 

[Secant]

I'll just piggy-back here as well. I shoot factory ammo exclusively, and I've doped out a bunch of different lots of ammo in various cartridges out to 1,400 yards without a chrono. I've also checked that data against MV from a MagnettoSpeed after the fact, and my data was within 1 SD of what my MagnettoSpeed said.

In my mind, the main thing to consider is that your ammo's SD is needed if you want to be able to understand your actual limitations at distance and make good decisions. You can dope out a gun without a chrono, but you won't have a full understanding of what is reasonable at distance without knowing your ammo's velocity SDs.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Anyone who is saying some shit like you dont need a chrono or I have been shooting without a chrono for 20 years.... ect ect ect.

IS NOT someone you want to listen to. How can you take anyone serious claiming they know their assholes from a hole in the ground about long range precision shooting, and don't even have a chrono? A weekend dirt shooter is not the person to take advice from.

 

[wade2big]

Anyone who is saying some shit like you dont need a chrono or I have been shooting without a chrono for 20 years.... ect ect ect.

IS NOT someone you want to listen to. How can you take anyone serious claiming they know their assholes from a hole in the ground about long range precision shooting, and don't even have a chrono? A weekend dirt shooter is not the person to take advice from.

So if I dial 8.2 mils and center a group at 1000yards, it’s invalid because I didn’t use a chrono. Get out of here.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

So if I dial 8.2 mils and center a group at 1000yards, it’s invalid because I didn’t use a chrono. Get out of here.

Again, its amatuer hour vs someone who is serious about shooting. If your standards are so low you are happy with a dinging a plate after wasting a bunch of ammo and time, good for you. Not everyone else is thrilled with mediocrity. Not everyone is impressed with rolling the dice 10 times before you get the number you want.

Same shit happens every time with new shooters. Tell them to buy a chrono and kestrel and they say they cost to much money. So they struggle chasing issues, trying to get their dope, trying to figure out why they are missing the targets. They don't know what their factory ammo is doing becuase the MV and BC are wrong. Take someone who shoots at a sea level have them shoot a match at 4500 DA and wonder why nothing matches up.

Just about any retard can walk rounds onto target with enough time, ammo and patience. Its getting that first hit on a target that you don't choose that matters.

These are basic shooting tools that save time, save ammo and increase hit probabilities. Its sad so many are too dumb / ignorant to understand this.

 

[Rob01]

Yeah with the cost of ammo and people's time going to the range and just sending rounds out there until you get on target seems to be a bad way to do business and recommending that is not a good idea. With the excellent ballistic programs we have today you can get a chrono number and get on target a lot easier and in less time, money and barrel life.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

I never said, you didn’t need a Chrono, my son and I share a Labradar, best chronograph, i have ever owned. The Magnetospeed, came loose on my barrel and pretty much destroyed itself. For being honest, they offered me a 15% discount on a new one. (My reply, in a respectful manner, “no thanks”). That was after I used a Pact, which never seriously worked. My saddest day was finally shooting my old Shooting Chrony which had served admirably for 15 plus years, helping me get into International class without destroying targets which I could never afford to replace.

What I said, is there are other, accurate ways to determine ranging without spending a fortune on boots, walking up and down a range OR becoming a slave to an electronic device.

Now, if shooting bench rest where literally being able to shoot one hole groups is the difference between placing and going home with a sad face, you have to Chronograph. But shooting factory ammo? Respectfully, Fellows on this thread that to shoot precise precision, you have to own a Chronograph and you have to own a Kestral. (With factory loaded ammunition?)

Folks, shooting factory ammo, as good as it is getting, is Never, Never going to be as precise as the OP is being told he has to have the equipment needed to do so.

Just so everyone will know, I reload and several years ago, on the very few days the Pact worked, it gave me the velocity data necessary, utilizing a ballistic program to start hitting targets beyond 300 yards with my 6.5 RPR. Two weeks ago, having a reliable 300 yard zero on my new 6GT, using Weaponized math charts, I was able to make first shot hits on silhouettes out to 800 yards. THEN we Chronographed it, used the ballistic program, to learn that at most, the differences between the Weaponized math charts and the ballistic program, never varied more than 0.10 mils.

 

[brianf]

personally, shoot what shoots best

if you are able to use an LRF and or shoot targets at the same distance (like a square range) all the time a chrono isnt really needed

the target tells you what shoots best

for 400..follow the box velocity and adjust after the first shot at a new distance, you wont be off that much in that close

you only need 1 shot and then adjust, its not like you are lobbing ammo all day to hit a target at 400

once you have a few targets mess with the calc to make the numbers match

people were making first-round hits waaaaay before we had chronos

 

[Rob01]

Yup what we need these new fangled scopes for either! Irons worked fine for years before scopes. Brass cases on ammo? Hell no they did it by stuffing powder and ball all down the barrel before so we don't need anything that makes the job easier. Lets stick with what they did 200 years ago when they were still making first round hits. LOL

 

[Holliday]

I have the Wiser Precision Magnetospeed mount and really like it. Easy to adjust and solid. It has an adjustment that allows for angle adjustment which is nice if not on perfectly level forends.

View attachment 8094141

How far can you extend that? 24 inch barrel with a 9” can? thx

 

[Holliday]

Yup what we need these new fangled scopes for either! Irons worked fine for years before scopes. Brass cases on ammo? Hell no they did it by stuffing powder and ball all down the barrel before so we don't need anything that makes the job easier. Lets stick with what they did 200 years ago when they were still making first round hits. LOL

Never thought I’d see the day that a Chrono recommendation, would be controversial on the hide.

 

[Rob01]

How far can you extend that? 24 inch barrel with a 9” can? thx

Yeah that is a 26" barrel on there now and you can see with the almost 4" brake there is still plenty of room. You should be fine with it and your set up.

And I agree. I was shocked when in another thread they were talked down to a new shooter. Such a simple and useful piece of gear that doesn't cost thousands but people act like it does. LOL

 

[wade2big]

i don’t think anyone said not to get a chrono, but that it isn’t necessary. I just picked up one myself for load development. Frank says he doesn’t use a chrono in his classes any longer and end up with the same solution as if he had. Either way a man has to true his data and it takes a few shots to get it done.

 

[FNG1001]

A mount for the magnetospeed is not necessary. Zero the rifle without the MS attached to the barrel. Attach the MS and fire a statistically significant number of rounds over it. Record the MV, SD, ES, and temperature. Remove the MS. You can collect MV data in a roaring gale, or at a 15y indoor range (assuming they allow the cartridge on the range). You can collet it in the rain, or snow, at night or at high noon. Honestly, you don’t even need sights. MV data, because you are chronoing factory ammunition, doesn’t even require that the bullet hits a target. You’re not going to hunt, compete, or plink with the MS attached- MKM mount or not. Who cares what the poi shift is when you use it?

Pretty much how i run it. ie: attach MS, shoot 10 or so rounds, remove MS, shoot rest.
Getting a mount (Mk Machining, Wiser, etc) has the designed bonus of being able to keep it on and collect more data without POI shift.

We all love more data

 

[Holliday]

I personally feel for a new shooter, who does not have the extreme good fortune of having Frank hovering over them, a chrono is just an easy button.

The advent of the magnetospeed puts it at a price-point and ease of use to make it a further no-brainer.

 

[Rob01]

Getting a mount (Mk Machining, Wiser, etc) has the designed bonus of being able to keep it on and collect more data without POI shift.

We all love more data

What it also does is allow easy change from different barrel contours or if using a suppressor. Not having to attach it and use the spacers makes it so much easier. I know as I did it for many years attaching to the barrel.

 

[SRPowah]

Anyone who is saying some shit like you dont need a chrono or I have been shooting without a chrono for 20 years.... ect ect ect.

IS NOT someone you want to listen to. How can you take anyone serious claiming they know their assholes from a hole in the ground about long range precision shooting, and don't even have a chrono? A weekend dirt shooter is not the person to take advice from.

Just about any retard can walk rounds onto target with enough time, ammo and patience. Its getting that first hit on a target that you don't choose that matters.

I think your reading comprehension issues are showing. Working backwards is just a longer more wasteful way of truing our calcs vs getting the MV straight from a chrono and punching it in. It still leads to successful long range first round hits in varying locations and conditions if done correctly. The chrono is just a much more efficient way of doing it.

Maybe you just don't know how to shoot distance without technology holding your hands, unlike us dirt shooters? <- See how easy it is to try and chat shit on the interwebz.