Chrono Results for .22lr Ammo

[JBM_DC]

I will have to post up what little info I have, but just looking to see what type of numbers others are getting with what ammunition in their rifles. Not so much the speed, but the consistency, which I know will probably vary quite a lot between lot #s, barrels, and weather.

Just would like to see what others are having luck with and how much luck. As well as down range results to go with the numbers if possible.

 

[justin amateur]

I have my chronograph out front for every range trip, center fire or rimfire.
Every bit of information helps with understanding those strays and fliers.

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Match 22lr has an ES less than 40 fps, sub inch to inch and a half 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
Mid grades like SK Match and Wolf ME will produce ES in the 60 plus fps range, inch to 3 inch groups at 100 yards.
CCI SV and other low cost 22lr will show ES from 80 to 100 fps plus, inch and a half to 4 inch groups
Recent orders of 17 hmr have been showing 220 fps to almost 400 fps ES. Groups at 100 show 1/2 to 2 inch plus.
Last brick of 22wmr 40 gr CCI showed an ES of 190 plus fps, 1 and a half to 3 inch groups
and the last box of CCI 22wmr 30 gr Vmax had an ES of 240 fps for 50 shots, again 1 and a half to 3 inch groups.

 

[JBM_DC]

I have my chronograph out front for every range trip, center fire or rimfire.
Every bit of information helps with understanding those strays and fliers.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/lh3.googleusercontent.com\/0Y6JstIHvJaQV1yAPyRoIuekgWncHGR1pKcoKxHhvZWXDPfokjb_WJ9w5M81nObFz-0GWs8KAT8Uwn_BwQ=w424-h482"}[/IMG2]

Match 22lr has an ES less than 40 fps, sub inch to inch and a half 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
Mid grades like SK Match and Wolf ME will produce ES in the 60 plus fps range, inch to 3 inch groups at 100 yards.
CCI SV and other low cost 22lr will show ES from 80 to 100 fps plus, inch and a half to 4 inch groups
Recent orders of 17 hmr have been showing 220 fps to almost 400 fps ES. Groups at 100 show 1/2 to 2 inch plus.
Last brick of 22wmr 40 gr CCI showed an ES of 190 plus fps, 1 and a half to 3 inch groups
and the last box of CCI 22wmr 30 gr Vmax had an ES of 240 fps for 50 shots, again 1 and a half to 3 inch groups.

In your experience what would be a good SD for match .22lr? I am seeing an SD of 18.5 over 20 rounds of some cheap Aguila pistol match comp ammo. Onec I can find my notes I will be adding this and hopefully a few other ammunition types after this weekends testing. However, I still need to pillar bed my stock and not exactly sure if this will have an effect on ammunition or not. The Aguila ammo I tried was producing nothing larger than MOA at 100 yards on a day with 0 wind, which is rare weather where I am located.

 

[justin amateur]

SD is just about useless.
SD means 2 out of 3 shots have an mv that falls within that many feet per second of the sample average.
SD also means 1 out of 3 shots falls outside that number, think about how that would affect target results
during a 25 shot competition or during a 5 shot group. ES is the number that I found to be of importance, not SD.
At 50 yards 10 fps difference between shots with match 22lr produces about 7/100th inch of vertical spread.
At 100 yards that same 10 fps will show about 1/4 inch of vertical. At 200 yards with a sv 22lr, 1 fps causes 1/10 inch vertical.

 

[Just Chuck]

Looks like this thread is either dormant or comatose. So I'll add a post just to de-fibrillate it. I did a chrono on Center X and CCI SV last week and was a little surprised at the results.

Center X has velocity of 1073 as posted by the manufacturer and that's what I was using in Strelok Pro. The chronograph showed an average of 1006 on a sample size of 20. The SD of 15.53 and ES 55.1 For CCI SV I had an average velocity of 1045, SD of 14.27 and ES of 49.
What surprised me was the ES and difference in velocity compared to manufacturer claims.

I plugged in the Center X velocity of 1006 to Strelok and found the calculations to really close to actual ( I also changed from a G1 BC curve to RA 4 curve).

Now I'm wondering about other ammos and how they might compare. I've got a couple of other CCI flavors, SK Std +, Aguila Match, SK Flat Nose, and some Norma Match that I'm going to chrono and see what those look like.

Like everybody, I'm looking for the Holy Grail of 22LR ammo - you know, the one with an ES of less than 10.

Also, just as more info - I did this at an altitude of 5,100 feet and ~ 45 deg F.

Anyway, when I get more data, I'll post my Excel sheet for comparison, comments, criticisms, and compliments.

 

[hlee]

I think that people can get a bit too wrapped up in absolute numbers. I took the published muzzle velocity for CenterX, put it into JBM to print out a dope sheet, and went out with my Kidd supermatch and shot high score in 3 straight 22lr matches held by Texas Precision Matches outside of Navastoa. Fairly recently, I was at a match where a shooter didn't have a dope sheet. He, @Darqusoull13, took a pic of my dope sheet- bear in mind I did not verify MV in my Kidd- and shot high score with his Vudoo, using a different brand of ammo...

These matches are shot from 50-150y and some VERY competitive shooters attend. I'd wager quite a few of the PRS shooters here would recognize some of the regular top 5-10 names.

 

[SouthFLShootin]

I have been shooting SK Long Range a lot lately and having good luck with it. Recently I put together a CZ 455 with a factory 24" barrel for matches that I could bang up not feel too bad about. On Saturday I chrono'd 25 consecutive rounds and got;
Avg 1062
Hi 1081
Lo 1028
SD 11
ES 53

I had one outlier at 1028. If it were for that I would have been right around 20 ES.

In my other 20", barrel I get slightly faster speeds by 40-60FPS

I find this stuff to group at about an inch or less at 100 yards, which I think is pretty good for a factory 24" barrel. For some reason the gun doesn't like some of the more expensive brands.

I don't find the inconsistent velocity to be a problem for me inside 150 yards for the type of shooting I do The last match I shot, we went out to 325+ yards and slight changes in velocity will make a huge difference there. Luckily, the targets at that distance were large enough where it didn't make a huge difference.

I'm almost at sea level and 64°F for those measurements.

 

[Near miss]

I upkeep an excel file in which I save atmospherics and other data on best effort.
The chrono that I use is LMBR R2H.

Here is the file, it is a live view so you will see more data added almost weekly.

Chrono 22LR.xlsx

1drv.ms

 

[Just Chuck]

@Near miss , Thanks for posting your spreadsheet - lots of good information there. Your chronograph is a much higher end unit than my Master Chrony Beta. I noticed your speeds were considerably higher than mine - difference in altitude or chronographs?

The ES and SD's were about what I was getting so that does give me some confidence in my data.

I may have to unlock the wallet and try some Tenex and Lapua Midas.

 

[Near miss]

@Near miss , Thanks for posting your spreadsheet - lots of good information there. Your chronograph is a much higher end unit than my Master Chrony Beta. I noticed your speeds were considerably higher than mine - difference in altitude or chronographs?

The ES and SD's were about what I was getting so that does give me some confidence in my data.

I may have to unlock the wallet and try some Tenex and Lapua Midas.

I think my velocities are standard, but who knows?
Most velocities noted are from the muzzle. Like, really close to muzzle, 12" maybe. So atmospherics should not affect that. Air temp is also quite steady, in fact I am trying to gather data how temp affects MV.

Your luck with top tier ammo will be random. According to Justins measurements and how I have read them, ammo price correlates with SD and ES but above maybe 8-12 a box (stuff like SK higher tier) it diminishes. Tenex can be way worse than SK Biathlon or it can be twice as good.

I suggest lot testing instead of buying randomly. Over here stores are plenty but they have usually maybe 2 lots of ammo so it is hard to test.
I sure as hell am quilty of buying blind lots too and mostly I am satisfied with those.

Nowdays I only shoot pricy stuff when I am on a good run. If the lot does not do well I might sell it forward or just use it for training or plinking long distance.

 

[Darqusoull13]

I think that people can get a bit too wrapped up in absolute numbers. I took the published muzzle velocity for CenterX, put it into JBM to print out a dope sheet, and went out with my Kidd supermatch and shot high score in 3 straight 22lr matches held by Texas Precision Matches outside of Navastoa. Fairly recently, I was at a match where a shooter didn't have a dope sheet. He, @Darqusoull13, took a pic of my dope sheet- bear in mind I did not verify MV in my Kidd- and shot high score with his Vudoo, using a different brand of ammo...

These matches are shot from 50-150y and some VERY competitive shooters attend. I'd wager quite a few of the PRS shooters here would recognize some of the regular top 5-10 names.

I use your DOPE sheet every time I go out to verify the day before the match. It gets me within a tenth or 2 with most 40 grain round nose.

 

[Near miss]

SD is just about useless.
SD means 2 out of 3 shots have an mv that falls within that many feet per second of the sample average.
SD also means 1 out of 3 shots falls outside that number, think about how that would affect target results
during a 25 shot competition or during a 5 shot group. ES is the number that I found to be of importance, not SD.
At 50 yards 10 fps difference between shots with match 22lr produces about 7/100th inch of vertical spread.
At 100 yards that same 10 fps will show about 1/4 inch of vertical. At 200 yards with a sv 22lr, 1 fps causes 1/10 inch vertical.

For me SD means the vertical window I expect to hit 2/3 of times. Mainly useful for when I shoot stuff like CCI farther so I know what to expect performance wise.

But yeah, it is dangerous to lean on SD only. For competition where you chase the bullseye it's a useless number.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I think that people can get a bit too wrapped up in absolute numbers. I took the published muzzle velocity for CenterX, put it into JBM to print out a dope sheet, and went out with my Kidd supermatch and shot high score in 3 straight 22lr matches held by Texas Precision Matches outside of Navastoa. Fairly recently, I was at a match where a shooter didn't have a dope sheet. He, @Darqusoull13, took a pic of my dope sheet- bear in mind I did not verify MV in my Kidd- and shot high score with his Vudoo, using a different brand of ammo...

These matches are shot from 50-150y and some VERY competitive shooters attend. I'd wager quite a few of the PRS shooters here would recognize some of the regular top 5-10 names.

I was running the wrong dope calculator at my match two weeks ago. I was off by 1 MIL(low) at 210. Everything from 50 -150 I had no issues with even though my dope was off, low, a little. It really doesn't show until you get past 150. 150 I was struggling a little bit but at 175, 200, and 210 and I had to fly by my pants and trust the bullet. My point is that even the wrong dope will get you close enough out to 150. It wasn't until I got home when I figured out what was going on. By the way, my Strelok has been switching ammo on me after closing it out and reopening it later. Double check your inputs before your match. ?

 

[Just Chuck]

I think my velocities are standard, but who knows?
Most velocities noted are from the muzzle.o atmospherics should not affect that. Air temp is also quite steady, in fact I am trying to gather data how temp affects MV. Like, really close to muzzle, 12" maybe. S

Your luck with top tier ammo will be random. According to Justins measurements and how I have read them, ammo price correlates with SD and ES but above maybe 8-12 a box (stuff like SK higher tier) it diminishes. Tenex can be way worse than SK Biathlon or it can be twice as good.

I suggest lot testing instead of buying randomly. Over here stores are plenty but they have usually maybe 2 lots of ammo so it is hard to test.
I sure as hell am quilty of buying blind lots too and mostly I am satisfied with those.

Nowdays I only shoot pricy stuff only when I am on a good run. If the lot does not do well I might sell it forward or just use it for training or plinking long distance.

My chrono instructions say to set ~ 8-10 feet from muzzle. I would hope it doesn't lose 50fps from actual muzzle to chrono.
I use CCI SV for close range practice, but seems to really open up groups at 75 yards and beyond. I've settled (for now) with Center X - one lot number from Good Shooting Supplies.

I also like the SD calculation because it does give an idea how narrow - or wide the population is spread.

I was running the wrong dope calculator at my match two weeks ago. I was off by 1 MIL(low) at 210. Everything from 50 -150 I had no issues with even though my dope was off, low, a little. It really doesn't show until you get past 150. 150 I was struggling a little bit but at 175, 200, and 210 and I had to fly by my pants and trust the bullet. My point is that even the wrong dope will get you close enough out to 150. It wasn't until I got home when I figured out what was going on. By the way, my Strelok has been switching ammo on me after closing it out and reopening it later. Double check your inputs before your match. ?

That's weird. Are you sure you 'saved' your ammo parameters - brand, fps, bc? It may be going back to previous data that was saved.

 

[Near miss]

My chrono instructions say to set ~ 8-10 feet from muzzle. I would hope it doesn't lose 50fps from actual muzzle to chrono.

I have noticed that suppressor eliminates the problems that arise near the muzzle.
Without the suppressor it has to be 20-40" away or there will false readings from the flying dirt.

 

[Just Chuck]

@Near miss so you're shooting prone?

 

[Near miss]

@Near miss so you're shooting prone?

Yes. But by dirt I mean flying burnt powder etc. which the chrono might mistake for a projectile.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

My chrono instructions say to set ~ 8-10 feet from muzzle. I would hope it doesn't lose 50fps from actual muzzle to chrono.
I use CCI SV for close range practice, but seems to really open up groups at 75 yards and beyond. I've settled (for now) with Center X - one lot number from Good Shooting Supplies.

I also like the SD calculation because it does give an idea how narrow - or wide the population is spread.



That's weird. Are you sure you 'saved' your ammo parameters - brand, fps, bc? It may be going back to previous data that was saved.

I have a Magnetospeed if you're interested in comparing someday.

 

[justin amateur]

One simple tip that the manufacturers don't include with the instructions.
When using an optical sensor ballistic chronograph, apply some transparent packing tape over the sensor openings.
All that debris blown out the muzzle travels a long way, especially with a tail wind.

The clear tape over the openings keeps the gsr from depositing on the sensors and rendering them useless.
Wipe off the tape after every range session and that chronograph will function properly for a long time.


Well, at least until you put it out of it's misery.

 

[barronian]

OK ive got one for you all.
Does anyone else get velocity changes like these ?
Magnetospeed V3 and Eley Match. Sig Sauer 200 STR

in this case the powder temp was 40 deg F and the air temp was the same, but i see similar progressions all the time.

5 shot groups

series 1 2 3 4 5
Max 1130 1096 1095 1092 1093
Min 1073 1078 1082 1075 1079
Avg 1097 1088 1082 1082 1083
ES 57 18 13 17 14


so the first shot is always hot, and the average stabilises after 10 shots or so.

Any thoughts as to why ?

so far i have eliminated changes in powder temp, and barrel cleaning regime - but im out of ideas unless its just the receiver/bolt/chamber warming ?

the first shot is often supersonic !

 

[Just Chuck]

In reading some of the Magneto Speed website, it says it's not compatible with rimfire. Maybe it's able to sense the rimfire bullets correctly.

PS. OOPPS! I was looking at the Magneto Speed Sporter. It does not work on Rimfire .

 

[straightshooter1]

My Magnetospeed v3 works just fine with my rimfire. I just set the sensitivity to 8 and that give me good results on all my rimfire rifles.

 

[BillOH]

OK ive got one for you all.
Does anyone else get velocity changes like these ?
the first shot is often supersonic !

I've seen the first shot be faster than the rest often enough to notice. It doesn't happen all the time.

 

[Near miss]

@barronian Check my chrono excels tabs
Eley Tenex, Eley Match and SK Biathlon 3.
On those tabs I have recorded CBS.
It seems cbs MV is about 2.5% to 3% higher than average.
For me they very often do not even hit higher than normal grouping does. It seems ammo dependent.
The SK Biathlon cbs hit like 0.3mil left from the rest of the group but I need more data to make assumptions.

Chrono 22LR.xlsx

1drv.ms

I have heard being speculated that it has something to do with the barrel condition.
Like, more oxygen etc.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

In reading some of the Magneto Speed website, it says it's not compatible with rimfire. Maybe it's able to sense the rimfire bullets correctly.

PS. OOPPS! I was looking at the Magneto Speed Sporter. It does not work on Rimfire .

Worked 100% for me. No missed readings. Just move it closer to the barrel. I didn't have to increase sensitive either. That was on an MP15-22 IIRC.

 

[MDrimfirerookie]

i haven't had any issues with the sporter with my 457 or my 455 other than a weird lot of eley force. some how i managed a 2400fps reading on a 22lr.

all other ammo's tested have been good to go.

 

[Near miss]

Realized few days ago how crono is a great tool.

Tested some ammo and Lapua Pistol King hit quite bad. Chrono told me the same story so I am returning it.
Unacceptable quality from Lapua! Had high expectations.

SK Biathlon:
50 Data points

VALUE FPS M/S
SD 11.1 3.4
ES 45.6 17.3
Avg 1085.8 330.6
Median 1081.4 330.1
Max 1117.1 340.5
Min 1071.5 323.2


Lapua Pistol King:
35 Data points

VALUE FPS M/S
SD 13.6 4.2
ES 62.3 19.0
Avg 1019.7 310.8
Median 1017.4 310.1
Max 1054.5 321.4
Min 992.1 302.4


CCI Standard Velocity
50 Data points

VALUE FPS M/S
SD 12.5 3.8
ES 55.1 16.8
Avg 1035.4 315.6
Median 1035.6 315.7
Max 1061.0 323.4
Min 1005.9 306.6

 

[Seymour Fish]

@barronian Check my chrono excels tabs
Eley Tenex, Eley Match and SK Biathlon 3.
On those tabs I have recorded CBS.
It seems cbs MV is about 2.5% to 3% higher than average.
For me they very often do not even hit higher than normal grouping does. It seems ammo dependent.
The SK Biathlon cbs hit like 0.3mil left from the rest of the group but I need more data to make assumptions.

Chrono 22LR.xlsx

1drv.ms

I have heard being speculated that it has something to do with the barrel condition.
Like, more oxygen etc.

Near miss, some say if you allow the bbl to cool a couple minutes, some water vapor may condense inside the bore and cause the next shot MV to increase. Potential source of fliers unless you have a nicely tuned system. First shot after cleaning will chrono faster too

 

[Stevelightning]

I’m using the MPA Magnetospeed Mount on my chassis. It has picked up every shot. I have the sensitivity set at 7
This is 10 shots of Center X recorded right before the start of a match

 

[Seymour Fish]

Realized few days ago how crono is a great tool.

Tested some ammo and Lapua Pistol King hit quite bad. Chrono told me the same story so I am returning it.
Unacceptable quality from Lapua! Had high expectations.

SK Biathlon:
50 Data points

VALUE FPS M/S
SD 11.1 3.4
ES 45.6 17.3
Avg 1085.8 330.6
Median 1081.4 330.1
Max 1117.1 340.5
Min 1071.5 323.2


Lapua Pistol King:
35 Data points

VALUE FPS M/S
SD 13.6 4.2
ES 62.3 19.0
Avg 1019.7 310.8
Median 1017.4 310.1
Max 1054.5 321.4
Min 992.1 302.4


CCI Standard Velocity
50 Data points

VALUE FPS M/S
SD 12.5 3.8
ES 55.1 16.8
Avg 1035.4 315.6
Median 1035.6 315.7
Max 1061.0 323.4
Min 1005.9 306.6

Near miss, just to throw out a curve ball, ammo that shows excellent sd/ Es in one rifle will often test poorly in the next

 

[MDrimfirerookie]

@Seymour Fish - i have seen that first hand and couldn't understand it until i just accepted "...because rimfire"

 

[justin amateur]

ammo that shows excellent sd/ Es in one rifle will often test poorly in the next

I don't blame that on the rifles.
Why? Just because one box was made right doen't mean the next box off the line is the same quality.
Since I started doing visual inspections of cartridges before chambering, I've seen differences in quality
from boxes with the same lot numbers. Dents, dings, damaged drive bands and sloppy seating.
The chrony numbers are never the same box to box. My 50 at 200 data illustrates the problem very clearly.
Rimfire quality varies moment by moment as it comes off the assembly line.
Same brand, same lot numbers, one box shoots amazing, the next has problems.
Same rifle, same chrongraph, different results due to visible changes in ammo quality.

When cartridges don't even look the same, you can't expect them to have similar trajectories.

 

[Near miss]

Yes.

And while accuracy is accepted to vary among barrels, velocity should be somewhat set (not to velocity, but to certain variance of it)

There are variables in the barrel that affect velocity like chamber size (energy directed at brass expanding instead of chamber pressure = velocity)

But given constant charge and brass dimensions, it should be quite constant.
Probably the biggest variance comes from priming material amounts.

Btw, I tested one badly dinged cartridge (bad feed) and I remember it went around 25fps slower than average.

This is my thoughts on the matter, please let me know if it is not like this.

 

[Seymour Fish]

Yes.

And while accuracy is accepted to vary among barrels, velocity should be somewhat set (not to velocity, but to certain variance of it)

There are variables in the barrel that affect velocity like chamber size (energy directed at brass expanding instead of chamber pressure = velocity)

But given constant charge and brass dimensions, it should be quite constant.
Probably the biggest variance comes from priming material amounts.

Btw, I tested one badly dinged cartridge (bad feed) and I remember it went around 25fps slower than average.

This is my thoughts on the matter, please let me know if it is not like this.

Near miss, yessir, differing chamber dimensions to include bullet engraving, bbl dimensions including any taper and fit to bullet diameter can affect pressure, bbl time thus tune, and thus overall accuracy, and at given distances. Agree the amount of priming compound is likely the most technically difficult to control, and may be the source of a lot of the variance seen. Yet another paradox is the excellent accuracy sometimes seen at 50 yds with worse that optimal Es/sad. No derail intended. You have done a fabulous amount of work and freely shared it. Damn commendable. Seymour