Cleaning a new rifle. Is this normal?

[bmattox]

This is a brand new .300 Win Mag which I have not fired and I'm cleaning the bore.
Cleaning supplies:
Tipton one piece carbon fiber cleaning rod
Tipton .30 cal jag (Ultra jag set)
Dewey .30 / .32 cal no harm brass bore brush
Hoppe's #9 solvent
Patches cut from TX612 Texwipe 55% cellulose / 45% polyester clean room wipes
Pro Shot adjustable bore guide
Procedure:
1. Place patch on cleaning jag, advance into bore guide up to solvent slot, soak patch with solvent and run through bore.
2. Remove patch while still at muzzle end and pull cleaning rod back out.
3. Repeat until patch is clean (this has taken three passes each time).
4. Install bore brush on rod, wet brush and make 6 to 8 passes.
5. Start over at step 1.
Results:
Photo shows the patches from the first run to the last starting top to bottom. First patch ran through after bore brush from each run is on the left, second, then third. I don't seem to be making any headway after 15 cycles. Is this normal for a new gun and I just need to continue until first patch after the bore brush is clean? If not then how will I ever know if the bore is clean?

 

[TurdFerguson]

This is a brand new .300 Win Mag which I have not fired and I'm cleaning the bore.
Cleaning supplies:
Tipton one piece carbon fiber cleaning rod
Tipton .30 cal jag (Ultra jag set)
Dewey .30 / .32 cal no harm brass bore brush
Hoppe's #9 solvent
Patches cut from TX612 Texwipe 55% cellulose / 45% polyester clean room wipes
Pro Shot adjustable bore guide
Procedure:
1. Place patch on cleaning jag, advance into bore guide up to solvent slot, soak patch with solvent and run through bore.
2. Remove patch while still at muzzle end and pull cleaning rod back out.
3. Repeat until patch is clean (this has taken three passes each time).
4. Install bore brush on rod, wet brush and make 6 to 8 passes.
5. Start over at step 1.
Results:
Photo shows the patches from the first run to the last starting top to bottom. First patch ran through after bore brush from each run is on the left, second, then third. I don't seem to be making any headway after 15 cycles. Is this normal for a new gun and I just need to continue until first patch after the bore brush is clean? If not then how will I ever know if the bore is clean?

Yes, mostly likely preservatives

 

[FuhQ]

People don't realize how nasty new rifles are. Most still have cutting or assembly oil in the barrels or a bunch of cosmoline type junk all in them to prevent rust. New rifles need to be disassembled and thoroughly cleaned before ever shooting them. At the very minimum, scrub-out the bore until it's clean.

 

[hlee]

Dirtiest barrel I ever cleaned was brand new.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Hopefully you're cleaning the brush between uses.

 

[hlee]

This is one of 2 good used of a bore scope. You can actually visually inspect the bore for cleanliness.

The other is to align gas blocks on ARs.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Just go shoot the thing, why are you wasting your time scrubbing the shit out of a new barrel? Are you that bored?

I’ve never done more than run a wet patch through a new barrel followed by a few dry patches and then a patch of denatured alcohol.

 

[Baron23]

Try a patch wet with break cleaner type solvent. I use Birchwood Casey gun Scrubber but break cleaner or similar will do as the point made above about cutting oil and perhaps even cosmoline type grease may be spot on and I don’t think your Hoppes will cut that stuff efficiently.

 

[hlee]

Just go shoot the thing, why are you wasting your time scrubbing the shit out of a new barrel? Are you that bored?

I’ve never done more than run a wet patch through a new barrel followed by a few dry patches and then a patch of denatured alcohol.

Not all barrels are delivered equally. I’ve read reports of barrels with metal chips inside the bore at delivery. Might as well clean out all that crud. But, if you are only buying “tier 1” barrels, maybe cleaning isn’t necessary.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Not all barrels are delivered equally. I’ve read reports of barrels with metal chips inside the bore at delivery. Might as well clean out all that crud. But, if you are only buying “tier 1” barrels, maybe cleaning isn’t necessary.

I’m very aware, and that process will push it out.

All he’s doing is trying to pull out all the oil and shit that’s in there from the manufacturing process that he’ll never get out.

 

[Oldloser]

At least it was not packed in Cosmoline and said M2 50 cal on the side. That's a M*R

 

[FuhQ]

Try a patch wet with break cleaner type solvent. I use Birchwood Casey gun Scrubber but break cleaner or similar will do as the point made above about cutting oil and perhaps even cosmoline type grease may be spot on and I don’t think your Hoppes will cut that stuff efficiently.

I recommend running all wet-patches and cleaning bores with RemOil, unless it's so bad you need to deep scrub, then I still use old Pro-Shot Copper Solvent IV. Then wipe-out with RemOil afterwards to neutralize the harsh cleaner.

 

[FuhQ]

At least it was not packed in Cosmoline and said M2 50 cal on the side. That's a M*R

You ever pulled any real original Kalashnikov and Sturmgewehr parts out of crate after nearly 70 years of being packaged? We did at the machine gun range the owner bought some when I worked there... It looked like it was packaged in a block of ballistics gel.

 

[FredHammer]

It's a good idea to clean a new barrel. Get out preservative oil.
A bronze brush, even run through an absolutely clean barrel, will show black follow up patches. FOREVER. There is a polishing going on with the bronze brush and bore. Just like a metal polish on perfectly clean steel surface. It will forever black.

 

[carbonbased]

Maybe you’re dealing with bluing? Unless your barrel is Cerakoted SS or something.

I know that’s not a CZ, but CZ lore around their 527s and rimfires was that they blued the whole barrel, inside and out. Just dipped it in the tank.

So if you were relying on a clean patch on a new gun to tell you that the bore was clean, you’d clean until the cows came home.

That was the lore. Not sure how true it was. The 457 CZ isn’t blued I don’t believe. Bluing ended at the 527 and 455 models.

 

[Baron23]

I recommend running all wet-patches and cleaning bores with RemOil, unless it's so bad you need to deep scrub, then I still use old Pro-Shot Copper Solvent IV. Then wipe-out with RemOil afterwards to neutralize the harsh cleaner.

Ah, I thought we were talking about removing cutting oils and maybe even preservative grease per your observation of what may be in play here (and which I agree is a reasonable suspicion).

I’m not talking about routine cleaning…particularly on a barrel that’s never been fired.

I don’t think RemOil is going to cut that kind of stuff.

Cheers

 

[FredHammer]

Spray gun scrubber down the bore while twisting. Patch out dry. No oil survives that!

 

[Haney]

New rifle , test fired before it left the shop . Dirty . If not test fired , still dirty . Always a great idea to clean a new rifle/barrel before you fire it, , Proof right here .

 

[Shoots 700's]

Couple patches of kroil and a dry one, shoot.

 

[bmattox]

Thanks for all the replies. I should clarify what I meant by "Is this normal". I realize there would be crud in the barrel of a new rifle but is it "normal" to still be getting dirty patches after 15 rounds of bore bursh / solvent soaked patches. Some have commented that I will never get a clean patch right after the bore brush. Maybe my expectations were off for this Bergara rifle but I want to do everything I can to get the best accuracy. Regardless of what solvent to try, I'd like to hear more people comment specifically on:
1) Will I ever get a clean patch after the bore brush?
2) If you answer "yes" to the first question, how many more times could I expect it to take?
3) If you answer "no" to the first question, when do I stop?
Thanks!

 

[spife7980]

It’s brand new, a couple dry patches to dislodge any puddles of oil and rogue chips is all you need before you pull the trigger.

 

[Ebar48]

I recommend you look up all of frank greens posts on barre cleaning, and the fact that you can pretty easily permanently ruin a barrel by going to town on it, especially with a bronze brush. My new barres get this: 3 patches with boretech eliminator and 3 clean patches. That’s it. No break in. After that I Clean with boretech/patches and a nylon brush every 100 rounds until patches are completely clean (probably 50 patches total) and then I use JB bore paste on a Parker and Hale jag every 500 rounds for 308 based cartridges and 250 rounds for magnum/lapua. Check with a borescope. That’s all. I know you want to take care of your rifle, just don’t ruin it trying to baby it.

 

[FuhQ]

Thanks for all the replies. I should clarify what I meant by "Is this normal". I realize there would be crud in the barrel of a new rifle but is it "normal" to still be getting dirty patches after 15 rounds of bore bursh / solvent soaked patches. Some have commented that I will never get a clean patch right after the bore brush. Maybe my expectations were off for this Bergara rifle but I want to do everything I can to get the best accuracy. Regardless of what solvent to try, I'd like to hear more people comment specifically on:
1) Will I ever get a clean patch after the bore brush?
2) If you answer "yes" to the first question, how many more times could I expect it to take?
3) If you answer "no" to the first question, when do I stop?
Thanks!

If you're still using a copper/brass brush, then you'll never get clean patches for the next few after running the brush. Try a nylon brush, and use something non-harsh on your patches, like RemOil, and it will give a more accurate reading. Sometimes the residual from the brash/copper brush can cause false positives, as well as harsh copper solvents on patches being used in conjunction with a brass jag.

 

[FuhQ]

I recommend you look up all of frank greens posts on barre cleaning, and the fact that you can pretty easily permanently ruin a barrel by going to town on it, especially with a bronze brush. My new barres get this: 3 patches with boretech eliminator and 3 clean patches. That’s it. No break in. After that I Clean with boretech/patches and a nylon brush every 100 rounds until patches are completely clean (probably 50 patches total) and then I use JB bore paste on a Parker and Hale jag every 500 rounds for 308 based cartridges and 250 rounds for magnum/lapua. Check with a borescope. That’s all. I know you want to take care of your rifle, just don’t ruin it trying to baby it.

That's why I only clean my rifles when they start throwing shots (or if it gets shit in the bore while hunting or walking through the woods). Otherwise, they get "rode hard & put up wet".

It's always good to run a wet patch and couple dry patches through it the night before hunting just to dislodge any dust, debris, or dirt that has accumulated in the barrel while sitting in the safe since you're last use.

 

[bmattox]

Thanks again everyone. Acquired a nylon bristle brush and used some other products. Trying to post very detailed information because someone always dings you if you don't provide some specific detail. Anyways, here's the summarized version:
1. Sprayed Break Free with muzzle down while rotating the barrel then let dry,
2. Used Bore Tech Eliminator and nylon bore brush per Bore Tech's instructions on the bottle. Got some blue/green on first two patches.
3. Patch out with dry patches until clean (took two patches).
See last three rows of round patches. I'm done! Hopefully the first rounds with the Dewey "No Harm" brass brush I used didn't hurt anything. Next up is to lap the rings and mount the scope.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Please, you don't need to lap quality scope rings

 

[bmattox]

Not even Leupold two piece dual dovetail bases and rings? I used a ring alignment tool and (with my eyesight) got good alignment in the vertical plane but slightly off in the horizontal plane.

 

[carbonbased]

Not even Leupold two piece dual dovetail bases and rings? I used a ring alignment tool and (with my eyesight) got good alignment in the vertical plane but slightly off in the horizontal plane.

What kind of ring alignment tool? The ones with the pointy ends tell you very little.

Think about it. The two pointy ends could be coming perfectly at each other like a V.

 

[bmattox]

What kind of ring alignment tool? The ones with the pointy ends tell you very little.

Think about it. The two pointy ends could be coming perfectly at each other like a V.

Exactly. That's why it's a two step process. Getting the pointy ends as close as possible given the limitations of the machined surfaces (bases to rings & rings to tool) is only the first step. Then you lap the rings, i.e. additional 'machining' go get concentricity of the rings. I appreciate the feedback so please correct me if I'm missing something.

 

[carbonbased]

Exactly. That's why it's a two step process. Getting the pointy ends as close as possible given the limitations of the machined surfaces (bases to rings & rings to tool) is only the first step. Then you lap the rings, i.e. additional 'machining' go get concentricity of the rings. I appreciate the feedback so please correct me if I'm missing something.

If you’re going to lap rings, this is the type of ring alignment tool you should have.

Kokopelli Ring Lapping Tool and Scope Alignment Bars « Daily Bulletin

If you use mass-production ring sets, other than Burris Signature Rings or SAKO Optilock Rings (which both feature polymer inserts), you can benefit from lapping your scope rings.

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

Kokopelli Scope Alignment Bars
https://www.kokopelliproducts.com/

I believe the owner either died or sold his business. When I talked to him years ago he sounded old as the hills then.

Someone might make a similar set. Search google for lapping ring alignment tool -wheeler

The Wheeler pointed “alignment” bars literally do almost nothing for you from a physics standpoint. Sure, they might show that the rings are wildly unaligned, but don’t show you much else.

 

[carbonbased]

Also, according to Kokopelli at least, you should have separate alignment bars and lapping bar. If you use an alignment bar as a lapping bar (or vice versa), you’re grinding a little off your alignment bar each time.

I’ve never done any of this, but just letting you know what I found when I dug into it.

I have a set of 30mm and 34mm Kokopelli alignment and lapping bars gathering dust. Bought them when I had separate scope bases but quickly migrated to one-piece pic rails and never looked back.

Someday I might find a use for them lol. I’m too lazy to check my expensive rings on one-piece rails.

I probably should check, just because I can. Doubt I’d find any problems, but…

Also, it would be way easier to use Burris Signature rings than to lap rings. Unless they don’t offer them for whatever rifle you have (and you don’t want to use two-piece picatinny mounts).

 

[Baron23]

Not even Leupold two piece dual dovetail bases and rings?

Leupold Mk4 rings? Then no....they don't need to be lapped, IMO.

 

[bmattox]

Also, according to Kokopelli at least, you should have separate alignment bars and lapping bar. If you use an alignment bar as a lapping bar (or vice versa), you’re grinding a little off your alignment bar each time.

I’ve never done any of this, but just letting you know what I found when I dug into it.

I have a set of 30mm and 34mm Kokopelli alignment and lapping bars gathering dust. Bought them when I had separate scope bases but quickly migrated to one-piece pic rails and never looked back.

Someday I might find a use for them lol. I’m too lazy to check my expensive rings on one-piece rails.

I probably should check, just because I can. Doubt I’d find any problems, but…

Also, it would be way easier to use Burris Signature rings than to lap rings. Unless they don’t offer them for whatever rifle you have (and you don’t want to use two-piece picatinny mounts).

Thanks. My set has the separate lapping bar. I really like the Burris rings with inserts. Used them on my .35 Rem but wasn't convinced they would be strong enough to keep the scope in place on the .300 Win Mag.

 

[Huskydriver]

Have you tried clr or an abrasive like jb or Losso?






Lol I'll show myself out.....















Seriously op just shoot it

 

[bmattox]

Leupold Mk4 rings? Then no....they don't need to be lapped, IMO.

This will be a good experiment. If I get good results very quickly from lapping then it will confirm your statement and I will have wasted some time. Seeing the result from lapping will put my mind at ease or tell me to continue.

 

[Baron23]

Seeing the result from lapping will put my mind at ease or tell me to continue.

hahaha....I understand completely. I don't view myself as being OCD or anal...I just have great attention to detail. haha

 

[Shoots 700's]

What is the intent with this rifle. What type/ brand of optic. What distance do you plan on shoot

 

[Long Range 338]

If I were you, I would just shoot it. Secondly I wouldn't rapid fire patches thru the barrel. Use the solvents generously and give them time to do their work. It should save patches and frustration.

 

[Cr1775]

Thanks. My set has the separate lapping bar. I really like the Burris rings with inserts. Used them on my .35 Rem but wasn't convinced they would be strong enough to keep the scope in place on the .300 Win Mag.

They keep my scope in place on my 300 RUM fine.