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Cleaning an M4
- Thread starter Brushout
- Start date
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
Good post! I have looked at three M-4's for our local PD SWAT team in the last two years that have had problems: One just had a bad mag. the operator was trying to use, but both of the others were bone dry! I lubed them up and they ran great.
Taught them the proper way to clean and lube....The Marine Way! No problems since.
Good post! I have looked at three M-4's for our local PD SWAT team in the last two years that have had problems: One just had a bad mag. the operator was trying to use, but both of the others were bone dry! I lubed them up and they ran great.
Taught them the proper way to clean and lube....The Marine Way! No problems since.
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
Im not an AR smith but.... I think ya just had a crapy or maybe even out of spec gas ring....
Im not an AR smith but.... I think ya just had a crapy or maybe even out of spec gas ring....
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
Never seen that before. thanks for posting.
I do a 5K - 6K round inspection on my ARs. complete tear down, inspect everything and do a detail clean. usually go ahead and replace the gas rings at this point.....hold over habit from full auto mag dump days when I used to have a Transferable M16 (and could afford to shoot it). also inspect gas key, gas key screws, gas tube, cotter pin, firing pin.....you get the idea.....
get a extra set or two of gas rings to keep in your emergency parts box.
Think there were a number of things going on there. not just one thing, but a number of factors that by themselves, would not be an issue.
Never seen that before. thanks for posting.
I do a 5K - 6K round inspection on my ARs. complete tear down, inspect everything and do a detail clean. usually go ahead and replace the gas rings at this point.....hold over habit from full auto mag dump days when I used to have a Transferable M16 (and could afford to shoot it). also inspect gas key, gas key screws, gas tube, cotter pin, firing pin.....you get the idea.....
get a extra set or two of gas rings to keep in your emergency parts box.
Think there were a number of things going on there. not just one thing, but a number of factors that by themselves, would not be an issue.
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
To clarify....All the rifles have periodic inspections and the armorer replaces all the parts and logs everything for us. I believe it has been completely torn apart and all the parts replaced around the 5k round mark. At first I thought it was an out of spec ring as well, but it shot for about 1500-2000 rounds with no issue since the last overhaul. So, thats why we figured that the extreme heat may have caused the ring to expand or stretch out of spec. But regardless, they need to be checked and lubed especially if they stay in any kind of extreme environment.
To clarify....All the rifles have periodic inspections and the armorer replaces all the parts and logs everything for us. I believe it has been completely torn apart and all the parts replaced around the 5k round mark. At first I thought it was an out of spec ring as well, but it shot for about 1500-2000 rounds with no issue since the last overhaul. So, thats why we figured that the extreme heat may have caused the ring to expand or stretch out of spec. But regardless, they need to be checked and lubed especially if they stay in any kind of extreme environment.
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
Good thing it happened at the range and not somewhere the targets shoot back.
Good thing it happened at the range and not somewhere the targets shoot back.
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
The heat from the trunk probably didn't have much to do with it. The bolts get so much hotter just from the gasses coming back that the additional heat from the trunk would be neglible in comparision. It was most likely lack of lube and really, a defective ring that finally went that caused the stoppage. Think of it this way, people do multiple full auto mag dumps with these guns without the gas rings failing. By the time they're even partway through those mag dumps, those guns are getting quite carbon fouled, dry and far hotter than you got your gun that day with the amount of rounds indicated in your post. While gun maintenance is very important, I think you got bit by a bad part.
The heat from the trunk probably didn't have much to do with it. The bolts get so much hotter just from the gasses coming back that the additional heat from the trunk would be neglible in comparision. It was most likely lack of lube and really, a defective ring that finally went that caused the stoppage. Think of it this way, people do multiple full auto mag dumps with these guns without the gas rings failing. By the time they're even partway through those mag dumps, those guns are getting quite carbon fouled, dry and far hotter than you got your gun that day with the amount of rounds indicated in your post. While gun maintenance is very important, I think you got bit by a bad part.
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
that is a great lesson learned and reminds me to always check and lube my weapons. Also, I am glad you brought up the rings so I will pay more attention to that detail. This thread just motivates me to pay a little more attention to my go to weapons.
that is a great lesson learned and reminds me to always check and lube my weapons. Also, I am glad you brought up the rings so I will pay more attention to that detail. This thread just motivates me to pay a little more attention to my go to weapons.
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
it verifies what i have said before......its the little things in life that will fuck you up....thanks for posting.
it verifies what i have said before......its the little things in life that will fuck you up....thanks for posting.
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
Even if the gas ring was out of spec, it seems to me that the ring is far less durable than a fabled MPI Colt Bolt.
Just goes to show you anything can go tits up in unpredictable ways.
Thanks for the good reminder.
Even if the gas ring was out of spec, it seems to me that the ring is far less durable than a fabled MPI Colt Bolt.
Just goes to show you anything can go tits up in unpredictable ways.
Thanks for the good reminder.
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
im gonna second badshot and say that the trunk heat cannot compare to the heated gas cycling that bolt. the bolt only moves a very short distance, did you clear several malfunctions before it finally locked up?
im gonna second badshot and say that the trunk heat cannot compare to the heated gas cycling that bolt. the bolt only moves a very short distance, did you clear several malfunctions before it finally locked up?
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
I know it runs counter to what everyone has ever been taught about ARs but I have had outstanding luck with GREASE over the last couple of years.
In getting ready for a class I just ran 700 rounds of Wolf (yes - Wolf) before I got stoppages. The stoppages were related to the dirty chamber but the bolt still was adequately lubed. Grease does not burn off at the same rate as oil. The only issues I have had are sluggish return to battery for the 2nd and 3rd rounds in cold weather (40 degrees and less).
Good luck
I know it runs counter to what everyone has ever been taught about ARs but I have had outstanding luck with GREASE over the last couple of years.
In getting ready for a class I just ran 700 rounds of Wolf (yes - Wolf) before I got stoppages. The stoppages were related to the dirty chamber but the bolt still was adequately lubed. Grease does not burn off at the same rate as oil. The only issues I have had are sluggish return to battery for the 2nd and 3rd rounds in cold weather (40 degrees and less).
Good luck
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
I doubt heat had anything to do with it. There is no way your trunk comes close to the operating temp of the weapon.
I think it's pretty clear what happened.
For those of you asking about gas ring replacement... Extend the bolt and stand the carrier gently on the bolt face. If there is not enough tension to keep the bolt extended, then replace the rings. It would also be a good idea to put a drop or two of lube through the holes in he carrier prior to a training session.
I doubt heat had anything to do with it. There is no way your trunk comes close to the operating temp of the weapon.
I think it's pretty clear what happened.
For those of you asking about gas ring replacement... Extend the bolt and stand the carrier gently on the bolt face. If there is not enough tension to keep the bolt extended, then replace the rings. It would also be a good idea to put a drop or two of lube through the holes in he carrier prior to a training session.
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
I thought ARs were self cleaning.....
I have always ran the bolts on my AR10s/15s fairly dry with light lube on the bolt bearing surfaces and gas rings with 100-300 rounds between cleaning. This makes me think closer inspection of the bolt/gas system at regular intervals is vital.
Kirk R
I thought ARs were self cleaning.....
I have always ran the bolts on my AR10s/15s fairly dry with light lube on the bolt bearing surfaces and gas rings with 100-300 rounds between cleaning. This makes me think closer inspection of the bolt/gas system at regular intervals is vital.
Kirk R
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
Unless you are in places with talcum powder like sand, the AR, M4, M16, etc. needs to be run wet. It cracks me up when I get guys who listen to the latest war stories from "over there" then change the way they maintain their weapon in a totally different environment.
The desert or the drill grinder are the only places where I didn't slather lube on a rifle.
Unless you are in places with talcum powder like sand, the AR, M4, M16, etc. needs to be run wet. It cracks me up when I get guys who listen to the latest war stories from "over there" then change the way they maintain their weapon in a totally different environment.
The desert or the drill grinder are the only places where I didn't slather lube on a rifle.
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
Either way this works out, good post. Humility is where respect is garnered.
Either way this works out, good post. Humility is where respect is garnered.
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
Colt on the firing line next to me a while back, it could always be worse...glad you're okay!
Colt on the firing line next to me a while back, it could always be worse...glad you're okay!
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
For those of you asking about gas ring replacement... Extend the bolt and stand the carrier gently on the bolt face. If there is not enough tension to keep the bolt extended, then replace the rings. It would also be a good idea to put a drop or two of lube through the holes in he carrier prior to a training session. [/quote]
Excellent gouge LW.
To the OP, thank you for your humility, and posting up your lessons learned. I use Millitec as well, and that it was good to go dry. I work in the desert and have not had any problems using militec protocal.
So, always lube before a shoot (when we can)? I liked the idea of militec because it didn't attract dust / dirt when in the rack in my rig.
For those of you asking about gas ring replacement... Extend the bolt and stand the carrier gently on the bolt face. If there is not enough tension to keep the bolt extended, then replace the rings. It would also be a good idea to put a drop or two of lube through the holes in he carrier prior to a training session. [/quote]
Excellent gouge LW.
To the OP, thank you for your humility, and posting up your lessons learned. I use Millitec as well, and that it was good to go dry. I work in the desert and have not had any problems using militec protocal.
So, always lube before a shoot (when we can)? I liked the idea of militec because it didn't attract dust / dirt when in the rack in my rig.
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
Otay, I missed LW's second post. Wetter is better. Copy. Not so much talcum sand down here. I was just following the instructions on the bottle. Thanks for the info
Otay, I missed LW's second post. Wetter is better. Copy. Not so much talcum sand down here. I was just following the instructions on the bottle. Thanks for the info
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I doubt heat had anything to do with it. There is no way your trunk comes close to the operating temp of the weapon.
I think it's pretty clear what happened.
For those of you asking about gas ring replacement... Extend the bolt and stand the carrier gently on the bolt face. If there is not enough tension to keep the bolt extended, then replace the rings. It would also be a good idea to put a drop or two of lube through the holes in he carrier prior to a training session. </div></div>
+1 The bolt will get alot hotter after 10 rounds than any trunk would ever get.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I doubt heat had anything to do with it. There is no way your trunk comes close to the operating temp of the weapon.
I think it's pretty clear what happened.
For those of you asking about gas ring replacement... Extend the bolt and stand the carrier gently on the bolt face. If there is not enough tension to keep the bolt extended, then replace the rings. It would also be a good idea to put a drop or two of lube through the holes in he carrier prior to a training session. </div></div>
+1 The bolt will get alot hotter after 10 rounds than any trunk would ever get.
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
I was under the impression that the ejection port was on the other side on all AR models.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Colt on the firing line next to me a while back, it could always be worse...glad you're okay!
</div></div>
I was under the impression that the ejection port was on the other side on all AR models.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Colt on the firing line next to me a while back, it could always be worse...glad you're okay!
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I doubt heat had anything to do with it. There is no way your trunk comes close to the operating temp of the weapon.
I think it's pretty clear what happened.
For those of you asking about gas ring replacement... Extend the bolt and stand the carrier gently on the bolt face. If there is not enough tension to keep the bolt extended, then replace the rings. It would also be a good idea to put a drop or two of lube through the holes in he carrier prior to a training session. </div></div>
That's a good field expedient tip. Thanks
Semper Fi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I doubt heat had anything to do with it. There is no way your trunk comes close to the operating temp of the weapon.
I think it's pretty clear what happened.
For those of you asking about gas ring replacement... Extend the bolt and stand the carrier gently on the bolt face. If there is not enough tension to keep the bolt extended, then replace the rings. It would also be a good idea to put a drop or two of lube through the holes in he carrier prior to a training session. </div></div>
That's a good field expedient tip. Thanks
Semper Fi
Re: Lesson Learned from a LEO on an M4
thanks for the post in 19 years in the military I have never seen that before
thanks for the post in 19 years in the military I have never seen that before
