Cleaning barrel after using nickel plated bullets

[Longdistanceoperator]

Hey guys,
Does anyone have any thoughts on how to properly clean any nickel residue from a SS cut-rifled barrel? Bullets such as the Federal Trophy Bonded Tip, or their newer Terminal Ascent, are nickel-coated and I'm wondering how we may ensure cleaning our barrels completely, to make sure no residue is left behind. I also wonder if these nickel plated bullets eventually may affect the rifling, it build up is not removed. We all have used solvents to remove copper and lead, but it seems as if these same solvents are not effective in removing nickel.
Federal suggests we should clean the barrel as usual and no additional cleaning is required (bore brush and traditional solvents). However, as it is often the case, there is a difference between a suggestion from the manufacturer and the practical application.
Any thoughts? I understand this is likely more directed to those with hunting experience with these bullets, but feedback from all is definitely welcome
Thank you

 

[BurnOut]

At the risk of being flamed, what about KG2/JB Bore Paste or similar?

 

[Longdistanceoperator]

No flaming at all: not sure if the nickel is bound/fused to the barrel by the time bore paste is used (or if paste works to remove nickel residue), or if it is as simple as cleaning the bore with it and call it a day. Bore paste might be something helpful, unfortunately I don't know. I hope we can all figure it out somehow, right?
Any experience with these bullets BurnOut? any barrel issues shooting them? They're great bullets and many use them. I have used them with very good results. I just wonder what the impact on barrels may be.

Thanks BurnOut!

 

[Vodak]

Are they actually Nickel coated, or cupronickel coated? Nickel/copper alloy stays nickel colored even with high ratios of copper in it. So if its high copper content cupronickel standard copper solvent will probably break it up no problem.

 

[Frank Green]

At the risk of being flamed, what about KG2/JB Bore Paste or similar?

Not flaming at all but be very careful with using an abrasive cleaner!

Absolutely positively don't use a brush with any abrasive cleaner and I don't care if it's in a liquid form. Damage will result. Look at the attached pic.

That was done with a bronze brush and KG2.

I'm o.k. with JB bore compound but not the bore brite. Again no brush. Patch only.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[BurnOut]

Not flaming at all but be very careful with using an abrasive cleaner!

Absolutely positively don't use a brush with any abrasive cleaner and I don't care if it's in a liquid form. Damage will result. Look at the attached pic.

That was done with a bronze brush and KG2.

I'm o.k. with JB bore compound but not the bore brite. Again no brush. Patch only.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Loud and clear, sir. FWIW, I only use (and/or recommend) use of bore abrasives on bore mops or those little felt pellets (from VFG). I have found that occasionally, the carbon and copper cleaners that I use will leave deposits untouched, but a brief scrub with KG2 makes the cleaners MUCH more effective. I don't know if there is an oxide/corrosion layer that forms over the deposits, or if it's a "lasagna"/layering issue, but I have seen it plenty of times.

 

[lash]

Not flaming at all but be very careful with using an abrasive cleaner!

Absolutely positively don't use a brush with any abrasive cleaner and I don't care if it's in a liquid form. Damage will result. Look at the attached pic.

That was done with a bronze brush and KG2.

I'm o.k. with JB bore compound but not the bore brite. Again no brush. Patch only.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Wow! That’s pretty severe. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Longdistanceoperator]

Not flaming at all but be very careful with using an abrasive cleaner!

Absolutely positively don't use a brush with any abrasive cleaner and I don't care if it's in a liquid form. Damage will result. Look at the attached pic.

That was done with a bronze brush and KG2.

I'm o.k. with JB bore compound but not the bore brite. Again no brush. Patch only.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Thanks Frank!
Any experience with nickel residue in barrels and how to clean it out? what's the impact on the bore? I'm assuming nickel sticks to the bore just like copper/lead.

 

[E. Bryant]

Not flaming at all but be very careful with using an abrasive cleaner!

Absolutely positively don't use a brush with any abrasive cleaner and I don't care if it's in a liquid form. Damage will result. Look at the attached pic.

That was done with a bronze brush and KG2.

I'm o.k. with JB bore compound but not the bore brite. Again no brush. Patch only.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Holy crap - I wouldn't have doubted your advice even without evidence, but that picture seals the deal.

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

That’s pretty severe, and I exclusively use abrasive KG2 to clean my barrels.

I always wrap a patch around a bronze brush... but I’ll be ordering some mops after seeing that...

 

[Mike Casselton]

Are you sure you're not using nickle plated brass with regular bullets?
I've never seen or even heard of nickle plated bullets (AKA projectiles) and I can't for the life of me even begin to understand why someone would make them.

Do you have pics of the the ammo you're using?

 

[XLR308]

Are you sure you're not using nickle plated brass with regular bullets?
I've never seen or even heard of nickle plated bullets (AKA projectiles) and I can't for the life of me even begin to understand why someone would make them.

Do you have pics of the the ammo you're using?

I believe it is an electro plating method and is meant to prevent corrosion in extreme environments same as defensive ammo that the cases are plated.

 

[lash]

Are you sure you're not using nickle plated brass with regular bullets?
I've never seen or even heard of nickle plated bullets (AKA projectiles) and I can't for the life of me even begin to understand why someone would make them.

Do you have pics of the the ammo you're using?

The latest release from Federal, the Federal Terminal Ascent, is a nickel plated hunting bullet. After seeing this thread, it actually took a bit of digging to find where Federal says that these bullets are actually nickel plated along with the cases.

 

[Frank Green]

Thanks Frank!
Any experience with nickel residue in barrels and how to clean it out? what's the impact on the bore? I'm assuming nickel sticks to the bore just like copper/lead.

I‘m assuming cupronickel jacketed bullets. I clean the bore of the barrel like I do with regular copper jacketed bullets. The only time I’ve shot those types of bullets was with a small lot of ammo when I had my MP43 and original WW2 ammo and I’ve shot quite a bit of the GP11 ammo in my 7.5x55’s.

The only thing I would wonder is if it is truly nickel plating on the bullets. If so my concern would be the nickel plating flaking off. The nickel is very hard and will or can scratch the bore. That’s why I don’t shoot and or reload nickel plated rifle cases.

 

[Frank Green]

I’ll ping the Federal guys and see what information I can get. We make them test barrels so....

Also I’ll ask them if they have any barrels that they’ve burnt out or when they burn them out and have shot the nickel ammo thru them to send me one back so we can look at it.

 

[308pirate]

This thread is a good reminder to stay away from weird shit like nickel plated bullets

 

[Baron23]

Just shot a box of Fed Premium Berger Hybrid, 135 gr and the case was nickel plated (or so appeared) but the bullet was regular copper.

I have no idea why they plated the case. They don't on the FGGM. Anybody got a clue???

 

[smoothy8500]

Electroless Nickel has a much lower coefficient of friction than copper alloys, which may explain their choice in using it on projectiles. However, I had read something about the old cupro-nickel jackets "cold welding" to the brass necks after several years of storage in adverse (hot/humid) conditions. Perhaps the electroless nickel is more stable?

 

[XLR308]

Electroless Nickel has a much lower coefficient of friction than copper alloys, which may explain their choice in using it on projectiles. However, I had read something about the old cupro-nickel jackets "cold welding" to the brass necks after several years of storage in adverse (hot/humid) conditions.

That makes sense considering the bullets they are using are similar to other monolithic designs and have driving band cuts in them for relieving pressure and engraving force.

 

[308pirate]

Just shot a box of Fed Premium Berger Hybrid, 135 gr and the case was nickel plated (or so appeared) but the bullet was regular copper.

I have no idea why they plated the case. They don't on the FGGM. Anybody got a clue???

Marketing

 

[BCX]

All i use is KG 1 w a patch and KG 12 w a nylon brush. KG 12 works better than anything i have ever used for copper. I have never seen a need for a abrasive cleaner! Borescopes will tell the truth....

 

[Longdistanceoperator]

I’ll ping the Federal guys and see what information I can get. We make them test barrels so....

Also I’ll ask them if they have any barrels that they’ve burnt out or when they burn them out and have shot the nickel ammo thru them to send me one back so we can look at it.

Hey Frank! Any word from Federal? Curious to know if they said anything about the nickel fouling.
Thank you

 

[Frank Green]

Hey Frank! Any word from Federal? Curious to know if they said anything about the nickel fouling.
Thank you

At this time no....I'll ping them again.

Everyone is jammed busy every where in the gun industry. Guys I would talk to on a regular basis.....now I can hardly at times get them on the phone.

 

[Frank Green]

Hey Frank! Any word from Federal? Curious to know if they said anything about the nickel fouling.
Thank you

Word is no difference in fouling per say and the barrels get cleaned the same way. All I can give ya for now.

 

[JB.IC]

Not flaming at all but be very careful with using an abrasive cleaner!

Absolutely positively don't use a brush with any abrasive cleaner and I don't care if it's in a liquid form. Damage will result. Look at the attached pic.

That was done with a bronze brush and KG2.

I'm o.k. with JB bore compound but not the bore brite. Again no brush. Patch only.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

is that picture showing how the abrasive and bore brush created groves in the rifling? Especially etching the inside of the bore.

 

[Frank Green]

is that picture showing how the abrasive and bore brush created groves in the rifling? Especially etching the inside of the bore.

Yep....the brush magnifies what the abrasive cleaner can do. The gouges to the lands is from the bristles of the brush with the abrasive on it. The brush/bristles are trying to rotate with the rifling twist but there is no way every bristles is going to follow the grooves only. So you can see how the gouges from the bristles are going up and over and down the lands.

The bore of that barrel is so shiny it looks chrome plated.

The shooter physically polished a full .002" out of the bore (tops of the lands) and a .0015" out of the grooves. The grooves don't show or take as much of the abuse vs. the lands. The lands stick up.

That barrel only has 800 rounds on it in that picture. Barrel started having accuracy issues at 100 rounds and that isn't the only one I seen like that.

Another guy using Witch's Brew and a brush wrecked 3 barrels in 6 months. The 6.5 barrel only had 110 rounds on it and the gouges where just starting to show. Another guy had a 308w barrel and at 500 rounds he polished a full .001" out of the bore.

 

[JB.IC]

Yep....the brush magnifies what the abrasive cleaner can do. The gouges to the lands is from the bristles of the brush with the abrasive on it. The brush/bristles are trying to rotate with the rifling twist but there is no way every bristles is going to follow the grooves only. So you can see how the gouges from the bristles are going up and over and down the lands.

The bore of that barrel is so shiny it looks chrome plated.

The shooter physically polished a full .002" out of the bore (tops of the lands) and a .0015" out of the grooves. The grooves don't show or take as much of the abuse vs. the lands. The lands stick up.

That barrel only has 800 rounds on it in that picture. Barrel started having accuracy issues at 100 rounds and that isn't the only one I seen like that.

Another guy using Witch's Brew and a brush wrecked 3 barrels in 6 months. The 6.5 barrel only had 110 rounds on it and the gouges where just starting to show. Another guy had a 308w barrel and at 500 rounds he polished a full .001" out of the bore.

yikes. Life lessons learned the hard way.

I gave up abrasives a few years ago but not because I had any issues. I’m glad I stepped away from them.

 

[smoothy8500]

Another guy using Witch's Brew and a brush wrecked 3 barrels in 6 months.

Funny, well not really, but PacNor used to ship a bottle of Witches Brew with their barrels....I have three bottles sitting unopened in a box somewhere. I'm willing to pay someone to take them.

Admittedly, they did say to use it sparingly.

 

[Frank Green]

Funny, well not really, but PacNor used to ship a bottle of Witches Brew with their barrels....I have three bottles sitting unopened in a box somewhere. I'm willing to pay someone to take them.

Admittedly, they did say to use it sparingly.

That is part of the problem.....it's not necessarily the product but how it's being used.

I'm o.k. with using JB Bore Compound (not the bore brite) and or using Rem. 40x cleaner which use to be called Gold Medallion years ago but never use a brush in conjunction with an abrasive cleaner. Then for sure your asking for problems.

Also think of this....a guy says and I've heard it a million times....I used such and such paste cleaner and the patches keep coming out really black. Think about it....you are basically polishing/lapping the bore each time you use it. You can make the bore to smooth and that can lead to a fouling situation. The copper will want to stick to the bore even more than normal.