Cleaning Rifle After Shooting?

[MMH]

When I finish shooting I normally push down a patch wetted w/ powder solvent followed by a dry patch followed by a patch wetted w/ Kroil. Is this good enough or should I fully clean the barrel after a shooting session. BTW, I typically shoot 20 to 30 rounds per session.

Also, how many rounds between thorough cleaning?

 

[Supersubes]

No, don’t clean it each time you shoot, especially when the round count is so low. The actual round count really depends on the rifle and cartridge though. Let the gun tell you when it needs it. I never clean after shooting, because I want to shoot over the old fouling next time out. I prefer that to shooting over a clean bore. I go 500-1000 rounds between cleanings on my 6.5 creedmoors.

 

[Random_Scrub]

No, don’t clean it each time you shoot, especially when the round count is so low. The actual round count really depends on the rifle and cartridge though. Let the gun tell you when it needs it. I never clean after shooting, because I want to shoot over the old fouling next time out. I prefer that to shooting over a clean bore. I go 500-1000 rounds between cleanings on my 6.5 creedmoors.

I thought I was going easy by cleaning every hundred or so....

 

[OLD308]

Just my opinion, just what I do. Not saying it’s perfect, but it has served me well.
First, take 5, 5 shot groups in under an hour. Average the size of the 5 shot groups to get you and your rifles true preformance. Take that average as you and your guns base line. At the end of every range session, take a break and shoot for a 5 shot group.
If the group is with in your average, pull a dry bore snake through it a few times and leave it alone. If is is out side your average it’s time to clean.
Keep a log book of your cleaning and round count. I don’t shoot barrel burners or 6 what evers anymore so hoppies #9 is more than enough for cleaning. This is just my method. There are a million out there most are just made to make you spend money. Don’t over think it. Have fun shooting.

 

[BigTex]

Cleaning guns is for squares

 

[ReaperMedic]

I don't use Kroil on a rifle for anything but getting parts unstuck (like when I am changing out the barrel on an AR). But I will run a patch with Slip2000 725 cleaner/degreaser, and then some dry patches, and repeat until I've got the patches coming out clean enough. I wont worry about fully cleaning until the gun shoots worse groups than I do.

 

[b6graham]

full clean every few hundred rounds when groups open up

or gun is going to sit for a month or two

this has been debated a million times with some huge threads. pretty sure frank has a podcast on it too

 

[Scampo]

You'll get hundreds of variations on gun cleaning. I shoot 20-40 rounds per session. I'll run wet patches of BoreTech through it, then dry patches until the powder fouling is gone. I do a thorough cleaning with copper solvent every 200-300 rounds or if groups start opening up.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

Kroil is a pretty decent powder solvent by the way.

I used to do something similar with Hoppes #9 at the end of the day. Carbon seems to come out better when it's still hot. I just use 1 wet patch and a few dry patches at the end.

I went away from it because I am lazy though. Now I use Thorro Clean every 350 to 500 rounds or so. I don't see the sense of "shooting until it doesn't shoot well" because chances are that it's going to not start shooting well in the middle of a match, or just gradually skew my data.

 

[ReaperMedic]

... I don't see the sense of "shooting until it doesn't shoot well" because chances are that it's going to not start shooting well in the middle of a match, or just gradually skew my data.

For my part, Im on a brand new rifle. If I can figure out where it gets too dirty, I can be ahead of it by quite a bit without superfluous work.

 

[USMC 308]

When I finish shooting I normally push down a patch wetted w/ powder solvent followed by a dry patch followed by a patch wetted w/ Kroil. Is this good enough or should I fully clean the barrel after a shooting session. BTW, I typically shoot 20 to 30 rounds per session.

Also, how many rounds between thorough cleaning?

As mentioned, everybody has their own way of doing this. Some will say clean only when groups open up, some only after 200-300 rounds fired, others will clean to some degree after every range session. It's up to you and what you like and are comfortable doing.

I've read some reports of what infrequent cleaning can do regarding massive copper build up and ruining a barrel. Over cleaning can ruin a barrel. Some copper is good, too much is not.

Cleaning is an evolving process. In the Marine Corps, you clean after every range session or you are a lazy shit bag.

I clean after every range session, the degree of cleaning is what varies depending on how many rounds fired. Yesterday I fired 60 rounds through by 6.5 CM bolt gun. I start with Boretech Carbon Remover for 1-3 wet patches until the heavy black soot is gone.....no way you can ever get me to believe leaving that crap in there is no problem. Now patches are not completely carbon free, just the heavy black stuff out. 1-3 patches of Boretech Copper Remover until the heavy blue/green out out. A hint of blue green is ok. Dry patch and run a wet patch of Kroil. 1-2 dry patches to get Kroil out. Done. Took 30 minutes and in that time also cleaned the chamber, crown and brake.

Sometimes I use a Kroil/Butches Bore Shine mix, sometimes I'll wrap a .223 brush with a patch wetted with solvent for 3 passes to loosen the tough stuff. I vary it up but have really reduced the cleaning time to 30-45 min. I used to overly obsess but reading Rob01 and Franks cleaning procedures have cured me of that

You'll figure out what works for you.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

For my part, Im on a brand new rifle. If I can figure out where it gets too dirty, I can be ahead of it by quite a bit without superfluous work.

My personal opinion is that the rifle cannot really be too clean. (Which isn't to say that you cannot clean it too aggresively.) The whole idea of copper equilibrium or whatever is nonsense. Or that there is an optimal fouling zone or anything of the sort.

Attached is a picture of a rifle I tested today that has a brand new barrel. That's the first 5 shot group I fired through it after I got it on paper. So rounds 3-8 on the barrel. No break in procedure either.

My other rifle that I cleaned yesterday shot a 10 shot group that was .536 center to center.

 

[SRSDriver]

I clean every few hundred.

The problem with cleaning after every range trip, is now you have to go shoot a few to get it back to a known state for a match. Most club matches don't want you torching a few off at the start of a match or stage to foul your barrel; you have to come ready to shoot.

Before a big match, I clean really good, then go shoot until its back on, then park it until the match.

 

[Sig Marine]

Cleaning powder fouling is different than stripping copper. I will clean powder fouling after each range trip using wet patches soaked with M-Pro 7 and 10-15 passes with a nylon brush, also soaked with M-Pro 7. I then use dry patches until they come out clean. This method has not changed my zero or accuracy. If I am shooting an upcoming match, I'll clean my barrel of powder fouling as usual, check all of my torque values and head to the range to shoot 10 shots or so to check and confirm zero. I then put the rifle up without cleaning until the match knowing it should shoot the way I left it. I continue to shoot and clean the powder fouling using this method until accuracy degrades at which time I will strip the barrel of copper and start anew.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

Just to add more to the pile; attached are 2 pictures of groups I shot today after cleaning. I decided to also torque my barrel on a lot tighter because my first range trip today revealed that it was finger tight.

I think the idea of shooting until it stops shooting is not very smart. I built my data around the rifle having 0 to 500 rounds of copper and powder fouling on the bore. Could it go more? Sure...maybe? But I already have proven performance in the 0 to 500 range, and that's enough to realistically take me through 2 2-day matches.

Guess what? Cleaning more frequently is going to make my "resets" if you want to call them that a lot less drastic than if I wait until 1000 rounds to clean.

I don't want to let carbon build up the the point that I start popping primers or having sticky bolt lift. I also don't want to see my data gradually change as I add fouling on layers of fouling to the point that my data is kind of junk by the time I decide to clean.

I think I did my 500 round cleaning job in 12 or 15 patches and called it good enough.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Never been asked before.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I clean my weapons, all of them, when my cat starts throwing up hair balls. I replace barrels when he needs an anal sac evacuated. YMMV.

 

[Random_Scrub]

I clean my weapons, all of them, when my cat starts throwing up hair balls. I replace barrels when he needs an anal sac evacuated. YMMV.

Curious what you do when your cat eats it’s own vomit

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Cars don't eat their own vomit. That is what the dogs are for.

 

[MACHTECH]

I love threads like this because I get to make a mental note of who to never buy a used rifle from!

 

[Ledzep]

I usually end up cleaning about every 200 rounds or so whether it needs it or not. My 6.5 SAUM requires every 100 or fouling builds up and I start blowing primer pockets. Just running a brush and one or two patches is usually enough.

Most of the barrels I've had foul and normalize in 1-3 rounds so I shoot 5 after cleaning and before hunting or a match and it works. 1000+ ways to skin the cat when it comes to cleaning or reloading practices... If it works it works. Nothing to get asshurt over.

 

[flatland1]

One of the kids that used to shoot our BR VS matches had a 220 Swift case come apart on him in his M700 SSF during the last string of targets, probably 40rds into the match. He asked me to take it home & have it checked out after we'd managed to get the bolt open and found what was left of the destroyed casehead. It ruined his bolt - actually enlarged the rim around the cartridge counterbore a bit - so I replaced it with a PTG custom. Had the stainless action magnafluxed at an engine shop - found no cracks. He told me he'd been shooting prairie dogs with H380 powder, and didn't really recall how many rounds it had through it since the last time he'd given it what he considered a thorough cleaning. I started in on his bbl while waiting on the PTG bolt to arrive - it took me several days of brushing, patching, soaking to get the hard carbon & copper out. Borescoped it before I started - you couldn't see the lands & grooves for the first 6"-7", it so full of carbon. I'd get a layer of carbon out, only to find more copper. What a frickin' mess.

All you guys who clean only when accuracy drop off are welcome to your own opinion - for myself, after I've gone to the expense & effort to chamber & install a nice Bartlein or Krieger bbl, I'm damned sure not going to put it away without cleaning first. Using the Hawkeye borescope tells me when I've got it as clean as it needs to be. OTOH, one of my good friends who still shoots a lot of NRA & CMP HP matches won the offhand championship trophy & civilian service rifle trophy during the Nationals at Perry two or three years ago (last time both the NRA & CMP Nationals were both held at Perry) without cleaning the bore of his AR-15 SR for the whole week of shooting - not because he didn't intend to clean, or was too lazy to do so, but because he was just too darned tired at the end of each day.

 

[Ledzep]

There's a difference between factory barrels and lapped match barrels in how much copper and powder they'll grab and hold.

My bartlein barrel after 2400 rounds cleaning every 200-400 rounds had no sign of layered fouling. I was actually very surprised how clean it was.

I've seen factory barrels that practically copper plate in 5-10 rounds. I would clean those barrels often, but a bartlein, Krieger, etc.. that never copper fouls.. meh, not such a big deal.

It's a case by case deal. My SAUM powder fouls a lot (60.6gr of H1000 through a 6.5 mm hole) so it builds up faster than some of the smaller cleaner calibers. More powder, more speed, rougher barrel/throat more overbore, probably needs more cleaning

 

[mystryak]

Clean when you can...enjoy it.

 

[dannySH]

Another "barrel cleaning" thread ??????

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Yes, nobody uses the search function. But I've asked old timers I've known for many years with little or no social media contact and they all use Hoppes #9 and let it sit overnight after every session. They win a lot of matches and get more than enough barrel life.

 

[Sinocopa]

I clean every 300 to 500 rounds

 

[IndianaRem5r]

Clean your chamber regularly. Clean your barrel rarely. My 2 cents.

 

[Diablo]

I clean my weapons, all of them, when my cat starts throwing up hair balls. I replace barrels when he needs an anal sac evacuated. YMMV.

I like this, but in reality I do clean sometimes, depending on conditions and what is (or could be) coming up next that I need that rifle for. Since I came up many years ago indoctrinated in the "clean after every use or every time in the field/bush", I still do some maintenance routinely (old habits are damn hard to get over, and the ones that worked well 30 years ago still work well today). Strongly suggest you search and see what Frank and Rob01 have recommended about this, it has been discussed lots of times here over the years.

 

[brianf]

banging steel is one thing (clean when you want), but if your in the benchrest circuit its a different story.
for "regular" people who shoot often every 1-3 weeks you can hold off.
but if you are going to let it sit for months give it a cleaning.
powder absorbs moisture, not so great for the barrel.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I love threads like this because I get to make a mental note of who to never buy a used rifle from!

Yup, I like buying from the guys that actually shoot.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I pull a bore snake through when the day is over to get the loose shit out, and then again before shooting if it's been more than a week or so to get the crustyness out. I've found that depending on what powder you use (H4350 especially) it will harden up and cause some deviation in the first few rounds while it pushes it out. Bore snake seems to prevent this.

Other than that I wet patch a new barrel, do a very light cleaning after 50 or so rounds, and then clean every 300 rounds or so after that. I also believe in the Tubbs voodoo and run a 1-2 throat maintenance bullets through the gun prior to each cleaning.

I never use any oil in the barrel unless the gun will be sitting for a long period of time. Clean it out good and dry patch it, a couple patches with denatured alcohol to neutralize and remove any left over residue followed by a couple more dry patches and she's done. With this method my first rounds are always in the group, and the first shot is normally about 10fps below the average for the 5 shot string but after the first the rest have no deviation.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I clean my weapons, all of them, when my cat starts throwing up hair balls. I replace barrels when he needs an anal sac evacuated. YMMV.

This needs stickied. @Lowlight

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

Just to add more fuel to the fire.

Advice on the internet needs context. There is a lot of bad advice that gets around, or even good advice that can be bad advice if misinterpreted. I shoot Service Rifle Across the Course, Long Range, Palma, and Precision Rifle Series stuff. I was good enough to get my Presidents 100 Tab, Distinguished Riflemans badge, and this year have averaged around the top 1/3rd of the matches I have shot. I'm don't consider myself a great shooter, but probably better than most.

Every shooting sport has a ton of people that are still learning by experience, trial and error, and people that know more because they read it somewhere else. PRS and shooting sports in general are infested with people that do tons of questionable shit and get away with it, or experience some sort of success.

An example: You can load your ammo to unsafe pressures and still have it work. As long as you have 200 rounds where it doesn't really bite you in the ass...you can win a match with it. Or at least feel it helped you out. Ammo problems are very common at PRS matches, especially with hand loads. I watch shooters do this all the time. I wonder how many rifle matches have been lost because of Jewel triggers and dust? The same match that was lost because of a Jewel trigger was probably won with a Jewel trigger because someone is bound to have one that isn't going to fail at the wrong time. Just because it works today doesn't mean it's going to work tomorrow.


CLEANING IS PREVENTATIVE MAINTENCE.

Nobody has won a match because they cleaned their rifle, but matches have been lost because someone didn't clean theirs.

I was all onboard the whole "only clean when you absolutely have to" train until it really bit me in the ass at a match. I didn't clean the barrel on my first 260 Remington because I was like "Fuck it...it still groups...cleaning is stupid and makes my hands smell." I went to a 2 day match in a different state...and low and behold...sticky bolt lift. And my data didn't track. I'm hemorrhaged points. And it was just an altogether frustrating experience. I went from doing top 1/3rd at a well attended match all the way to the bottom half of a club match that had a higher proportion of novice shooters. The whole thing sucked because I couldn't trust my data, or my rifle. I'm wondering if maybe I messed up the ammo, or the neck tension, or if maybe it's because it's colder.

Feeling totally fucking lost at a match is a total bummer. Sucking for a whole weekend because you followed common knowledge from the internet makes you feel like a dumbass. And I am a dumbass because I had to re-learn the things I already knew from all of the NRA stuff. The NRA stuff really punishes being a dumbass at higher levels because of how competitive it is; if you save a round during one stage of rapid fire you have practically just lost the match. Same thing if you crossfire a shot onto a wrong target. Putting the wrong dope on is the same; shoot 1 string of 300 yards rapid fire with your 200 yard dope on and you've just fucked yourself from 1st place all the way down to 25th.

PRS/NRL is not nearly as punishing because you can make a lot of mistakes through the course of a day and still okay. I shot a club match this weekend and finished 9th of 55 shooters. I had one stage where I fucked up massively and shot a 0. And it isn't like I shot at the wrong target; I just got inside of my own head and didn't trust the data, and didn't put bullets where they needed to go. That was a HUGE fuck-up. Looking back at the stage and at how well everyone else did; that stage should have been an easy 4 points. 4 more points would have put me in 4th place...which is definitely good, but at the end of the day, anyone can look at a 9th place finish in a pretty competitive match and be like "that guy is a halfway decent shooter."

The bottom line is that matches are won by the best shooter who makes the least number of errors. At the higher levels it's more about fucking up the least amount than anything else. Making sure to take care of simple stuff like your rifle and ammo isn't going to make your good days much better; but they will make your bad days a whole heck of a lot less terrible. At least with shooting a 0 on a stage this weekend it's just because I suck at shooting and not because I failed to do something before the match.

Fouling effects pressures. Pressure effects velocity. Velocity effects data. I clean my barrel regularly because I care about making sure my data is going to hold up consistently over time. In a perfect world, I would like to only have to verify data once and be able to shoot with it the rest of the year. Barrel wear is a thing so there will be tweaks but those tweaks should be more predictable while removing fouling at regular intervals means I am seeing the effect of barrel wear and not barrel wear + fouling. And cleaning frequently means I won't have to clean as hard either.

Garbage post over.

 

[wilsoncs3980]

LMAO,,,,,,did you feel that? That was thousands of SGT. Majors rolling over in their graves after reading these post about not cleaning weapons. I clean mine to some extent after every range day. I guess it's just habit. It's the way my dad did it and it's the way we did it in the Army. I only go after the copper every few hundred rounds or so. Typically I run a wet patch with Hoppes No.9, followed by dry patches, repeat until the patch isn't coming out dirty. Everyone knows No.9 won't touch copper. If I think the copper fouling is getting out of hand I use KG's products. All my rifles are consistent shooters unless the trigger man is having a bad day.

 

[fdkay]

When I finish shooting I normally push down a patch wetted w/ powder solvent followed by a dry patch followed by a patch wetted w/ Kroil. Is this good enough or should I fully clean the barrel after a shooting session. BTW, I typically shoot 20 to 30 rounds per session.

Also, how many rounds between thorough cleaning?

I'm ok with what you're doing, you're not hurting anything and you MIGHT be putting off the deep clean that will eventually be required when your groups open up.
I would just be sure to run a patch through before shooting. If I leave oil in the bore, I degrease by soaking a patch with alcohol, run it through, followed by a dry patch.
The thing is, you're not cleaning it enough it really make much of a difference so I don't think you're gaining anything.

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

I used to be obsessive with cleaning after every range session. Now I just clean the chambers and action of my bolt gun (or the actual bolt carrier group for ARs).

I did finally watch the Magpul precision rifle video (yes late to the party here) and was wondering if what Tod says is true about carbon being what pits barrels. Right now I just run some bore tech c4 through the bore then a dry patch and follow that with a patch with lucas extreme gun oil. I'll also use Lucas extreme gun grease on the bearing surfaces but not much else.

Other than that I will use bore tech copper solvent and bore cleaner every now and then. Not sure if anyone here has tried thorro clean but I pitched it after my bottles froze on me.

 

[Sig Marine]

I did finally watch the Magpul precision rifle video (yes late to the party here) and was wondering if what Tod says is true about carbon being what pits barrels.

It’s my understanding that pitting is caused by the moisture that carbon pulls from the air. We’ve seen pictures of crowns that have not been cleaned because of a muzzle brake and once the brake and caked carbon was removed, the pitting on the muzzle was not pretty.

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

It’s my understanding that pitting is caused by the moisture that carbon pulls from the air. We’ve seen pictures of crowns that have not been cleaned because of a muzzle brake and once the brake and caked carbon was removed, the pitting on the muzzle was not pretty.

Yeah I am bad with cleaning my brakes. Need to fix that.