Night Vision Clip on NVD considerations?

[Mongoose0311]

Recently picked up a PVS-22 for some night time hog slaying. Outside of PVS-24's mounted on my M16 in an OP I have no real experience with clip on units and am more than capable of admitting when I'm ignorant on a subject. Thus, leading me here to learn about any considerations of shooting with a clip on device I may be overlooking.

I already have an UNS mount, so the rifle is ready to rock.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

Get yourself a good illuminator. A Luna or spir would be good choices of you don't have a pvs-14 headmounted. I'd say look into a dbal d2 or mawl if you do. The it laser is invaluable for snap shots.

 

[Mongoose0311]

It should be noted this is a bolt gun, and I have no way to mount any lasers.

 

[Terry Cross]

It should be noted this is a bolt gun, and I have no way to mount any lasers.

How do you mount the 22 to your bolt gun?

Most NV mounts have provisions for an accessory rail.
Also consider a RAP type rail.


./

 

[niteshooter]

If you don’t have the side rails for auxiliary stuff there’s all kinds of stuff to mount to a scope or scope rings.
Badger makes a nice scope ring set up with a rail. Similar to Nightforce RAP.
I put a quick detach on my illum.
Having it closer to reach on the scope is nice if it’s adjustable.
I usually turn down the gain to where you barely see before turning on illuminators.

 

[Eric_H]

Pics of your setups

 

[Mongoose0311]

Viala

 

[Terry Cross]

Viala

Are those NightForce rings?

 

[Mongoose0311]

That they are.

 

[Terry Cross]

That they are.

Then one fix would be to put one of these on your rig. https://www.nightforceoptics.com/riflescopes/accessories/top-half-ring-accessories

From your pic, looks like you have a trusty old NXS on the gun. If so, that would be a 30mm main tube and you would use part #A428.
SportOptics has them in stock for a smidge over a hundred bucks. https://www.sportoptics.com/nightforce-accessory-platform-a428.aspx


Looks like this when in play.
A decent IR Illuminator will supercharge your PVS22.

./

 

[newguy2k3v2]

Inside 500yds or so I don't mind a led based illuminator like a torch. The armasight 850? Is also very good if you can find one. Focusable, more power than a torch and has 3-4 power levels. It's so much smoother and easier to look at than laser.
At longer range, especially over flat ground, a jailbroken Luna is the ticket. Even focused down the LEDs give some spill in the foreground.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Then one fix would be to put one of these on your rig. https://www.nightforceoptics.com/riflescopes/accessories/top-half-ring-accessories

From your pic, looks like you have a trusty old NXS on the gun. If so, that would be a 30mm main tube and you would use part #A428.
SportOptics has them in stock for a smidge over a hundred bucks. https://www.sportoptics.com/nightforce-accessory-platform-a428.aspx


Looks like this when in play.
A decent IR Illuminator will supercharge your PVS22.

View attachment 7329667


./

pants...getting...stiff

 

[Mongoose0311]

 

[Mongoose0311]

First picture is 530Yds.

Second is 620yds.

It looks a little better in person than it does with my phone. Does anybody have comparative pictures? Granted my only experience is 24's in front of an RCO, but i was expecting a little better clarity. This exact platform (XM-3) was designed to be able to shoot 1k day and night, and I'm honestly not sure how seeing as 630ishyds is starting to get to the point I couldn't even ID what's a target and what's not.

 

[Terry Cross]

First picture is 530Yds.

Second is 620yds.

What X did you have you scope on for those pics?

./

 

[Mongoose0311]

What X did you have you scope on for those pics?

./

About 10x.

I've tried moving the 22 forward and backwards, I've adjusted parallax and focused the 22 and I cant seem to get a crisp image I'm use to.

 

[Terry Cross]

Reason I asked is because your images sorta looked like too much X on the scope. Don't be afraid to try with slightly lower X. Resulting image is easier on the eyes and makes your brain more happy with what it is trying to process.

Just a thought.... Try the same settings but get a target area that doesn't have bright ass light sources in the FOV. The whole "photonic barrier" thing includes getting image degradation due to strong light sources in the same field of view that you are trying to utilize your NV in. Some areas with a lot of ambient artificial light can actually be defined and targeted better with no NV at all and trying to force the use of the NV will actually hurt your ability to perform.

Parallax always goes to infinity regardless of the scope/clip-on combination.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

I've tried moving the 22 forward and backwards, I've adjusted parallax and focused the 22 and I cant seem to get a crisp image I'm use to.

One other thing that MAY cause a degradation in the quality of your viewed image is the amount of mis-alignment between your day scope and the 22. From your rifle pic, it looks like you are using Low/0.885" or Med/1.00" NF rings. Your setup looks like you might have as much as 3/4" linear offset between the two which is a lot. I would always setup new guns destined for clip-on use with the 1.265" and in some cases 1.375" rings to better ensure best possible performance of the NV.

Can't remember but I think the 22s ask you to keep it plus or minus 1/4" . You may also experience an increase in any POI shift with the two being that far off center.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

"Does anybody have comparative pictures? "

These were in a very rural area. No white light sources anywhere close.
Horse in a catch pen. Super easy to see ears twitching and tail swatting flies. 1/8 moon and clear star night.
720'ish yards

Out shed with crates leaning against it. Same night and conditions. Very easy to see gaps between the boards on the pallets and all edges well defined.
534yds.

 

[Terry Cross]

BTW, I think your rig is sexy AF.

./

 

[Huskydriver]

"Does anybody have comparative pictures? "

These were in a very rural area. No white light sources anywhere close.
Horse in a catch pen. Super easy to see ears twitching and tail swatting flies. 1/8 moon and clear star night.
720'ish yards
View attachment 7333688
View attachment 7333690

Out shed with crates leaning against it. Same night and conditions. Very easy to see gaps between the boards on the pallets and all edges well defined.
534yds.
View attachment 7333691
View attachment 7333693

What clip on is this Terry?

 

[Mongoose0311]

Reason I asked is because your images sorta looked like too much X on the scope. Don't be afraid to try with slightly lower X. Resulting image is easier on the eyes and makes your brain more happy with what it is trying to process.

Just a thought.... Try the same settings but get a target area that doesn't have bright ass light sources in the FOV. The whole "photonic barrier" thing includes getting image degradation due to strong light sources in the same field of view that you are trying to utilize your NV in. Some areas with a lot of ambient artificial light can actually be defined and targeted better with no NV at all and trying to force the use of the NV will actually hurt your ability to perform.

Parallax always goes to infinity regardless of the scope/clip-on combination.

./

Dialing back in the mag DEFINITELY helped the image quality slot. Still not as nice as some of these WP pvs30's I'm seeing, but about enough I could probably hit steel at 600 with.

I did notice an image quality difference when playing when parralax, noted, will keep it at initiate when playing with clip on.

One other thing that MAY cause a degradation in the quality of your viewed image is the amount of mis-alignment between your day scope and the 22. From your rifle pic, it looks like you are using Low/0.885" or Med/1.00" NF rings. Your setup looks like you might have as much as 3/4" linear offset between the two which is a lot. I would always setup new guns destined for clip-on use with the 1.265" and in some cases 1.375" rings to better ensure best possible performance of the NV.

Can't remember but I think the 22s ask you to keep it plus or minus 1/4" . You may also experience an increase in any POI shift with the two being that far off center.

./

I agree, it's definitely not ideal and I'm not entirely sure why the system was designed like this.

Granted it was an early GWOT rifle and we dont know now what we did there.

BTW, I think your rig is sexy AF.

./

Thanks! I'm a huge fan of the XM-3, its definitely fun having one of the only accurate clones out there. It turns alot of heads.

 

[Terry Cross]

What clip on is this Terry?

It is a 30 in front of a Leupy spotter.

./

 

[Huskydriver]

It is a 30 in front of a Leupy spotter.

./

White phosphorus?

 

[Mongoose0311]

Dialing back to 8x drastically improved image as well as confirming parralax set to infinite.

Tried to get out to a darker spot with no lights, but the state trooper wasn't as amused as I was....

 

[Terry Cross]

White phosphorus?

Yes.

I have a green 27 that is about equal.

.

 

[PlinkIt]

@Terry Cross would I be over reading / interpreting to understand that a WP version of each unit would tend to be roughly equal to the next objective lens size?

Example
WP=GP
PVS22=PVS30
PVS30=PVS27

 

[Mongoose0311]

@Terry Cross would I be over reading / interpreting to understand that a WP version of each unit would tend to be roughly equal to the next objective lens size?

Example
WP=GP
PVS22=PVS30
PVS30=PVS27

No. There are extremely high quality GP tubes and super low quality WP tubes. The higher the FOM and LPM are, the better the image quality.

 

[PlinkIt]

Thanks

Just wanted to make sure my current understanding was correct, but reading that statement made me wonder if I was missing some information

 

[Mongoose0311]

Thanks

Just wanted to make sure my current understanding was correct, but reading that statement made me wonder if I was missing some information

Night vision is a whole other ballgame when talking about clip on units.

You can have a high FOM tube with a Lower LPM that has a STELLAR image when looking through it with your eye, but have a less quality image through glass. Remember the scope is no longer magnifying an image at distance, its magnifying the screen in front of it. This is where the LPM (Lines per millimeter) come into play. Your average pvs14-15-31, whatever can have a sub 70LPM and be great units. For a clip on, 70LPM is the lowest you want.


Here is a really good write up on night vision.

https://www.pulsar-nv.com/glo/support/night-vision-technologies/77/

 

[pucker]

^^ that’s referring to digital NV...which is quite different from analog.