Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

[Bob Shaver]

Just looking for some input. Which would you rather own and why?

The Colt .22 AR's are around $500 and have the coveted "prancing pony" stamped on the side. There's always the possibility that they might increase in value down the road.

Unfortunately they don't have parts compatability with "real" AR's. You can't even swap out pistol grips.

If I buy a dedicated upper the question is which one using which mags? Black Dog seems to have several different mags and I've seen some uppers warning about ammo compatability.

There's also the issue of price. A dedicated upper, lower and mags put me in the $800 price range. That's a lot of scratch for a .22 plinker in my book.

What route would you take and why?

 

[hilbillee]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

Go with the dedicated upper, or a S&W. I had a Colt but got rid of it. It shot okay but I didn't like the fact it was mostly pot metal and you couldn't interchange any parts on it with AR parts. I put a RRA national match trigger in my S&W. It's a blast to shoot. No problems with any type of ammo I have tried either. I also have the SIG 522, another fun 22 LR.

 

[frog5215]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

The "coveted prancing pony" is made by an airsoft company in Germany. Bizarre takedown, 180 degree safety, lots of zinc.

S&W M&P: light, milspec trigger parts (you know you really want a Jewell). $450 or less complete.

Dedicated: milspec, duplicate to the last detail your duty gunor any other configuration (I did a MK12 MOD 0 SPR). If you already have an AR it should be a no brainer. Use your existing lower for perfect practice.

Unless you have specialized needs, you'll use an Atchisson bolt from Model 1 Sales, Ciener, Spike's Tactical, or CMMG. They all use the same Ciener/Atchisson compatible mags from Ciener Black Dog Machine, or CMMG.

BDM also supplies mags for the M-261/Oly bolts and the CZ V-22 dedicated upper (not currently imported).

The Atchisson bolts all work about the same. In dedicated uppers, most use the same "collar" to mate the conversion bolt to the dedicated barrel, except CMMG's dedicated collar only fits their barrel, though you can use their unit directly in a DPMS dedicated upper (out of production, unique mags, thus the interest in converting to a more mag accessible bolt).The other collars pretty much work on all Atchisson bolts except the original tubular bolt from MAC.

Tac Sol uppers use a unique barrel and bolt, though they go on milspec upper receivers, and use Atchisson mags.

Barrels are mostly from Spike's (GM or Lothar Walther) Model 1 Sales (ER Shaw).

An outfit called Ballistic Advantage does Douglas barrels and some others, I think, for the dedicated Atchisson format in an array of styles, including retro.

Lastly for the real high rollers, Accuracy Speaks or Compass Lake Engineering. $1100, true match uppers, though many of the others give impressive accuracy.

 

[MtGoat]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

The Tactical Solutions M-4 dedicated upper uses Mike Rock barrels. That and the fact that they are local convinced me to order the Tactical Solutions upper. Should be here in a week or so.

Pat

 

[RicSmith]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

Jest get a conversion kit and shoot it. The CMMG is a great one.The big differance is the mags. We shot the conv in RR NM and they shoot great. I payed $199 for the kit +1 mag. they sold me 2 more mags and the total was 249. Hard to beat. We use the .22 to train for XTC shooting and even 3 gun. Or if you like big words, CQB.

 

[frog5215]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

Gunkings has TacSol M-4 uppers on sale for $499. That's a steal.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

Ric, what twist is your barrel andhow are your groups? I've heard that the 1 in 7 twist leads up way to easy.

 

[frog5215]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

1:7 has a bad rep for accuracy with any .22LR EXCEPT Aguila SSS 60gr.

SpecOps13 on AR15.com has a sticky on the rimfire page with testing of LOTS of conversions and some dedicated uppers.

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

I have a 8 twist barrel with a Ciener kit. It will shoot CCI Minimags into 1/2" at 25 yards which is plenty of accuracy for what I used it for.

I would use the kit to keep up on skills when I was home between "trips". I practiced mostly close in work, shooting 50 yards or less at my home range.

If you do get a Ciener or one of the other kits to work with your 223 upper get the Black Dog Mags. They have been 100% since day one and have the ability to be taken apart and cleaned. The new ones are the same size as regular mags so you can use your normal kit while running drills with a cheap alternative to 223 ammo.

There are a few other tricks and tips but the biggest tip I can give you is to make sure to break it in well and keep it lubed while you do. Some kits are 100% out of the box while others aren't. I think mostly this is because of variations in the weapons themselves and not the kits.

I would get a conversion before I would buy the Umarex monstracity. There are quite a few reports of the pot metal receivers breaking under normal use.

Dolomite

 

[a1-equipment]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

I will second the colts are pot metal, s&w are much better shooters,

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hilbillee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go with the dedicated upper, or a S&W.</div></div>

I agree. The Colt is really Umarex (sp?) IIRC. I've found no inexpensive (<$500) dedicated uppers that are really worth the money. Unless you like ending up with something that will immediately be less accurate than a 10/22 with $150 worth of mods. Everybody who owns a CLE upper raves about them. Dedicated uppers definitely seem to be a buy once, cry once item.

 

[frog5215]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

I've got a CLE upper, and I do rave. But I've got about $2k in the upper(vanity project-MK12 MOD 0-ARMS, PRI, the works, except a $300 Chinese scope cloned from the $1.4K Leupold)
The standard Service Rifle or SpaceGun upper from CLE is about $1100.
Useful accuracy, especially for plinking or tactical training can be had for about $500 from Spike's Tactical, TacSol (if you wait for sales) or Model 1 Sales when they finally ship (upper only in all cases).

 

[ROGER4314]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

I'd like to recommend a different approach and agree with the previous post. Any of the adapters sold will put that .22 slug down a 1:7, 1:8 or 1:9 barrel twist. The .22 LR needs a 1:16 twist for best accuracy.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Compass Lake Engineering</span> makes a dedicated .22 upper that fixes all of that. They take the M261 military .22 conversion and cut the end off that looks like a .223 cartridge. That part normally enters the chamber of the rifle. Instead, they butt the bolt up to a Douglas match barrel (1:16 twist) and you wind up with superior accuracy. I got a 20" A2 SS match barrel and even had a flash hider installed.

My Compass Lake upper cost $1000 but it is absolutely accurate and gives faultless functioning. I shot it at 200 yards and it gave eye popping accuracy!

<span style="font-weight: bold">Another advantage is that when assembled to the AR-15 lower, it IS an AR-15!</span> The quality, balance and weight is identical to an AR. The M261 magazines fit down into the standard AR-15 magazines so when it is all together, you can't tell it is a .22LR until you pull the charging handle. The charging handle stroke is short so that is a good clue but appearance wise you can't tell it is a .22.

So for your money, you get accuracy, authentic appearance. 100% function, quality and you will have something worth owning. The performance of the upper was so good that I bought a lower to use just for the .22.

It's a lot of money but you get what you pay for.

Flash

 

[frog5215]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

Roger that, Roger.

But the same is true of all the dedicated .22s uppers.
An M-4 dedicated 16" unit from M1S or Spikes Tactical has an overall length a small fraction of an inch different from a 14" M-4 5.56 ( I think there's actually 3/8" difference) because the breech of an Atchisson conversion sticks 1 1/2" into the receiver relative to a 5.56. The barrels are 16" twist, and the chamber is really a .LR chamber, with no chamber insert freebore.

Folks like Adam at Ballistic Advantage do retro 20 A-1s, or any other configuration you can think of.

As you see I'm badly afflicted. Two 16" flat top CARs, a 20" flat top standard AR rifle, and the SPR.
A Lothar Walther barrel upgrade at Spike's is just $100, and BA uses some premium barrels, too, for those not able to justify a grand.

But 5 or 6 Federal bulk packs compared to the same number of 5.56 rounds will pay for even a CLE. You can shoot that much in a few weekends. How long would it take to shoot 2.5-3K 5.56?

 

[TRON]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

love my spikes

hate there bullshit!

 

[Rolltide]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

I've been trying to decide on this same question, only with the S&W. I can buy the complete rifle for around $450 and am leaning this way due to the fact that I can loan it to other shooters while still retaining my MP15T.

Thanks for the ideas.

Chris

 

[hangingchads]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

I got on the waiting list for the spikes when they were still developing the dedicated upper and bolt system. Have had mine for about 2 years now or whatever its been. Its been nothing but great and accurate. As long as I don't feed it too much low powered or non coated ammo it works flawless and accurate.

I built a lower with the intention of building another .223 M4 upper and swapping the lower on the .22 and .223 uppers. I never got the money to build the .223 upper yet so uh yeah.

Dedicated seems more accurate to me, I shot a guys .223 converted .22 at the range and was not as good. I never owned any thing other than a dedicated though so I can't say for sure. I can say I am happy with the $1000 I put into my M4 replica .22lr, its all I really shoot at the range now and is worth every penny in my book cause it gives me more range time than my other rifles.

 

[ROGER4314]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

Sure, any of the dedicated .22 uppers will shoot fine. I just had such great luck with the Compass Lake upper that it deserved mention. It's not often that you actually GET what you pay for! It was expensive but worth every penny.

That being said, those M261 type adapters that use the AR-15 1:7, 8 or 9 inch twist barrels are not going to be accurate. That .22LR needs a 1:16 twist and anything else is a real handicap. They will make the 22LR slug come out of the barrel but I expect more than that.

Flash

 

[PistonPete]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

El Shavewa, in my OPINION the Colt is piece of crap, shoots good, but the engineering is shitty.., go with the S&W or TacSol upper.

 

[samnev]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

Get the Sig 522. Much better made than the S&W and doesn't use proprietary mags. It uses Black dog mags which can be had for $17. It's accurate, reliable and at a better price point.

 

[Patrick_S]

Re: Colt 22 AR or dedicated upper?

I went with the S&W, glad I did. The rifle shoots good and has been reliable as a 22 auto can be(almost perfect really). I pretty much cloned my 5.56 rifle by adding all the same stuff to it.