Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this pic

Prairie Dog Dundee

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 20, 2002
660
0
Utah
I bought this magazine specificlly to read the article on the British adoption of the LMT L129A1. On page 20 there is a photo of a group on a one inch paster that measures .83 inches. The caption states that the group was fired with Federal 149 grain FMJ Ball ammo. Very impressive. However, I, like many of you, have seen a bunch of .308 holes in one inch paste on target dots. The photo of the dot measures slightly over one inch. The group measures about .83 inches. However the bullet holes seem to be 17 caliber, they are not .308 caliber. If you have this magazine take a look and tell me if I need new glasses. What is wrong with this picture?
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this pic

Can you scan and post a copy of the pic/page you are talking about? I don't have a copy in front of me and it is hard to say without seeing the photo in context. You may get more of a response by posting the pic.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this pic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you scan and post a copy of the pic/page you are talking about? I don't have a copy in front of me and it is hard to say without seeing the photo in context. You may get more of a response by posting the pic.</div></div>

Sorry I don't have access to a scanner right now. However, there is a pic near the bottom of this page.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=491595&page=3
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this pic

It looks like a Guns & Ammo mag article to me, which is extremely questionable in terms of the claims being made about anything (i.e. - They were advocating CounterSniper scopes not long ago). It is hard to tell from the pic, but I definitely see what you are saying. They do look a little small...(or the target dot pasty is a larger than 1")!

Public domain from tinypics:

2md10yb.jpg
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this pic

That can't be a 1 inch circle. This target is in 1/2 inch blocks and these are .308 holes...

236-p3070001.jpg


If those are in fact .308 the circle is 2-3 inches
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this pic

Based on my calculations of the bottom 3-shot string which would measure almost exactly 1 inch edge to edge, that's an approximately 2-inch circle, making that group around 1.5 inches
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this pic

Happy is hear it is not my eyes.
I just checked the authors name and it is Eric R Poole who is the Editor in Chief of the magazine.
Come on Guns & Ammo, you got some splainin to do.
LMT is an outstanding Company. Right now I'm researching my next purchase and LMT and LaRue are what I'm looking at. This kind of crap muddies the effort. There are posters on this forum I trust far more than I now trust Mr. Poole.

Thanks Guys
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this pic

...although looking at the bottom string, I'd bet that gun is capable of sub-moa. The spread between the 2 groups looks like shooter error.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this pic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ewoaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">either the boolits are small or the pasty is more than an inch...I'm thinking the latter. </div></div>

I'm thinking the former. The edges on every piece of paper I've shot have looked like the post folling yours, with large burns. This pic shows small burns in relation to the bullet diameter. They also look to be about 1/6th the diameter of the target which is awefully darned close to .17.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this pic

I receive a lot of gun mags. The thought occurred to me the other day that I never ever read anything negative on any gun. So I am supposed to believe every product that comes out is pretty much wonderful in every way. This reeks. I think of gun mags more as order my weapon advertisements then impartial sources of information. I do like the looks and the sound of the Lmt however and am truly considering it as my next purchase. It is a shame that you really can't trust much of anything anymore because somebody is paying someone else to sugar coat it for them.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this pic

I also saw that mag and thought the exact same thing, maybe they meant 1inch of Point of aim? Its at least a 2" circle, and all rounds are within 1 inch of point of aim. I think some measure groups this way instead of extreme spread.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this pic

I've done photography for magazine articles before, it's not quite uncommon for them to take tons of photos and then mislabel one in the article. I'm betting that's a pic of their sub moa 200 yard target and the guy who wrote the caption mistakenly listed it as the 100 yard group.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

Hey Gents,

After spying Sniper's Hide for a few years, this concern around the size of the pasty charged me to finally join up. When I get to the office tomorrow, I'll dig out the pasties from which that target was used and measure it. I think the problems are that the proportions are off. The picture is cropped and staff helps to caption the articles during the editing process. The art directors don't always have the time or attention to notice those types of details when they're putting together a 100+ page magazine in just 3 weeks. I don't know if you ever read Intermedia's special interest pubs from years past, but I took this job a year ago to feed guys like us articles packed with objective information and photos that my uniformed peers wanted to see. I used to get P.O.'d when at all of the B.S. advertising fluff and command each of my contributors to speak freely (if you have any questions or concerns about how I go about doing this, ask away, I'll be wide open on this forum). I'm doing my best to draw down the contributions from writers that none of us can respect. I'm trying to bring guys with actual credentials on board so that we can bring trust back to the newsstand. Let me know what you want to read about, tell me what questions you want answered, and I'll try and line up exclusive material for future issues. I have a Bullpup magazine coming out, followed by a redesigned Book of the AR15 and Surplus Firearms. I'm a VMI graduate and, believe it or not, I do still live by the Honor Code. - Eric R. Poole
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunslinger2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Gents,

After spying Sniper's Hide for a few years, this concern around the size of the pasty charged me to finally join up. When I get to the office tomorrow, I'll dig out the pasties from which that target was used and measure it. I think the problems are that the proportions are off. The picture is cropped and staff helps to caption the articles during the editing process. The art directors don't always have the time or attention to notice those types of details when they're putting together a 100+ page magazine in just 3 weeks. I don't know if you ever read Intermedia's special interest pubs from years past, but I took this job a year ago to feed guys like us articles packed with objective information and photos that my uniformed peers wanted to see. I used to get P.O.'d when at all of the B.S. advertising fluff and command each of my contributors to speak freely (if you have any questions or concerns about how I go about doing this, ask away, I'll be wide open on this forum). I'm doing my best to draw down the contributions from writers that none of us can respect. I'm trying to bring guys with actual credentials on board so that we can bring trust back to the newsstand. Let me know what you want to read about, tell me what questions you want answered, and I'll try and line up exclusive material for future issues. I have a Bullpup magazine coming out, followed by a redesigned Book of the AR15 and Surplus Firearms. I'm a VMI graduate and, believe it or not, I do still live by the Honor Code. - Eric R. Poole </div></div>

Welcome to the Hide! Looking forward to some more information from you on this issue.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunslinger2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Gents,

After spying Sniper's Hide for a few years, this concern around the size of the pasty charged me to finally join up. When I get to the office tomorrow, I'll dig out the pasties from which that target was used and measure it. I think the problems are that the proportions are off. The picture is cropped and staff helps to caption the articles during the editing process. The art directors don't always have the time or attention to notice those types of details when they're putting together a 100+ page magazine in just 3 weeks. I don't know if you ever read Intermedia's special interest pubs from years past, but I took this job a year ago to feed guys like us articles packed with objective information and photos that my uniformed peers wanted to see. I used to get P.O.'d when at all of the B.S. advertising fluff and command each of my contributors to speak freely (if you have any questions or concerns about how I go about doing this, ask away, I'll be wide open on this forum). I'm doing my best to draw down the contributions from writers that none of us can respect. I'm trying to bring guys with actual credentials on board so that we can bring trust back to the newsstand. Let me know what you want to read about, tell me what questions you want answered, and I'll try and line up exclusive material for future issues. I have a Bullpup magazine coming out, followed by a redesigned Book of the AR15 and Surplus Firearms. I'm a VMI graduate and, believe it or not, I do still live by the Honor Code. - Eric R. Poole </div></div>

Good explanation and welcome aboard. I run a business and see that stuff all the time. It sucks being under the microscope but it comes with the turf.

I'll write for you. I may not know what I'm doing but just watch me and I'll show you exactly how it's done. LOL
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

Write away BattleAxe. When I get a moment, I'd be happy to give your stuff a read or pass it along to the appropriate title. I obviously can't promise a career as the next Jeff Cooper, but I know there's good talent with experience to back things up standing by to contribute. [email protected]
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunslinger2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Write away BattleAxe. When I get a moment, I'd be happy to give your stuff a read or pass it along to the appropriate title. I obviously can't promise a career as the next Jeff Cooper, but I know there's good talent with experience to back things up standing by to contribute. [email protected] </div></div>I'm kidding of course...If I had extra time in my day I wouldn't spend it at my desk when I could be out shooting.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

Just in case you guys are interested, I'm currently working on an article on the TACOM M14EBR-RI. I had a rare invite to visit Rock Island and spend a day with the TACOM team to watch them convert hundreds of M14s brought out of storage and test them on their indoor range facility. They put the target in the box with the rifle before shipping out to deploying units. Then they slap two stickers certifying the MOA measurement. The reject is 1.5 MOA at 100 yards, but in the course of the last few years, only one rifle ever failed their tests. I saw more than 100 rifles in boxes and the worst MOA measurement was something like .92. The best was .60. That ought to draw some interests. We took pictures through the entire process (including our range time) and are going to get some good quality shots of an escorted sample in our photo studio. Any details you guys would like to see?
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunslinger2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just in case you guys are interested, I'm currently working on an article on the TACOM M14EBR-RI. I had a rare invite to visit Rock Island and spend a day with the TACOM team to watch them convert hundreds of M14s brought out of storage and test them on their indoor range facility. They put the target in the box with the rifle before shipping out to deploying units. Then they slap two stickers certifying the MOA measurement. The reject is 1.5 MOA at 100 yards, but in the course of the last few years, only one rifle ever failed their tests. I saw more than 100 rifles in boxes and the worst MOA measurement was something like .92. The best was .60. That ought to draw some interests. We took pictures through the entire process (including our range time) and are going to get some good quality shots of an escorted sample in our photo studio. Any details you guys would like to see? </div></div>

I'd love to see pics and I'm all ears. I just put together this little beauty...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1765924#Post1765924
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunslinger2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Gents,

After spying Sniper's Hide for a few years, this concern around the size of the pasty charged me to finally join up. When I get to the office tomorrow, I'll dig out the pasties from which that target was used and measure it. I think the problems are that the proportions are off. The picture is cropped and staff helps to caption the articles during the editing process. The art directors don't always have the time or attention to notice those types of details when they're putting together a 100+ page magazine in just 3 weeks. I don't know if you ever read Intermedia's special interest pubs from years past, but I took this job a year ago to feed guys like us articles packed with objective information and photos that my uniformed peers wanted to see. I used to get P.O.'d when at all of the B.S. advertising fluff and command each of my contributors to speak freely (if you have any questions or concerns about how I go about doing this, ask away, I'll be wide open on this forum). I'm doing my best to draw down the contributions from writers that none of us can respect. I'm trying to bring guys with actual credentials on board so that we can bring trust back to the newsstand. Let me know what you want to read about, tell me what questions you want answered, and I'll try and line up exclusive material for future issues. I have a Bullpup magazine coming out, followed by a redesigned Book of the AR15 and Surplus Firearms. I'm a VMI graduate and, believe it or not, I do still live by the Honor Code. - Eric R. Poole </div></div>

Greetings Mr. Poole

I'm the original poster who asked "whats wrong with this picture" and latter said "come on Gun & Ammo you got some splainen to do". It speaks volumes for your character that you answered the call to do some "splainen". I also like the fact that you made no excuses but rather stated that you would look into it and get back to us. To my way of thinking that removes you from the "its faster to make it up than look it up" school of journalism.

You have a tough and very knowledgeable audience on this forum. Many of them have little faith in many gun magazines. I was enjoying your article but as soon as I saw that picture, my reaction was that I got a whiff of rodent. The dot in the photo is the stated size. The shot group is the stated size. The bullet holes are not the right size. All of us have seen 30 caliber holes in a one inch paster. An .83 inch group of five 30 caliber shots in a one inch paster does not leave much paster. I have shot enough .17 caliber ammo to know that is what it looks like. This is not an accusation. In fact to be fair I would like to point out that I noticed something in re-reading the photo caption. It reads "This one-inch target pasty <span style="color: #CC0000"> </span> <span style="font-weight: bold">represents</span> <span style="color: #000000"> </span> the best five-shot group fired from 100 yards using standard ball ammunition." I'm not sure what this means. Is this not the actual group but a reproduction because of technical requirements? If so I find it a reasonable explanation but an odd practice. I'm looking forward to your findings. Thank you for responding.

You asked what we would like to see in a publication. I for one would like to respond. I would also be interested in hearing what fellow "Hiders" have to say.

I grew up with guns and in my free time if I'm not shooting I'm reloading or reading about shooting or reloading. I'm an old fart and my oldest Gun magazine is a 1959 copy of GUNS. From about 1971 until 1995 I subscribed to about every Gun magazine published in America. Between 1980 and 2000 I wrote and published between 40-50 articles on a free lance basis about half of which were gun related. About 2000 I dropped my subscriptions because I found they were piling up without being read. I'm sure one reason I quit reading was because I knew much of what was being written because I had read it before or had personal experience with the subject. However, another reason was the quality went down hill. When I pick up an article and it only has opinions rather than facts and there are five photos and four of them are of the author, you have lost me.

I buy gun magazines for three reasons.
1. <span style="text-decoration: underline">I want to learn something</span>. The history of the weapon or it's development. What is new or in development.

2. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Vicarious trigger time</span>. Give me the facts. What is the pull weight of the trigger. Was the trigger smooth or gritty. How did it shoot with different loads? For example your piece on the LMT. I bought the magazine for the article. I wanted to read the article because I'm looking at spending 3K on a rifle. The guys in my shoes would love to see what that rifle would do with Radway Green, German DAG, Federal GM and a smattering of handloads. Back in the seventies George C. Norte or others would not write about a new rifle without putting half a dozen loads through it and giving velocity and accuracy figures.

3. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Entertainment</span> Light stuff that is just fun. Skeeter Skelton's Me and Joe comes to mind.

Of the new generation of writers I like David Fortier and Zack Smith. I would love to see several people from the hide write something. (Are you reading this Lowlight?)

As to subject for future magazines.
1. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Battle rifles</span> What is out there, i.e. FNFAL, HK91, SIG, FN49 etc. Medium bore semi auto rifles. What are the options. How do they shoot? What are their Histories.

2. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Guns of our enemies</span> What are our young men facing in Iraq and Afghanistan? What are their advantages and disadvantages etc. (My son described guns in Iraq that I believed were obsolete and models that are locally made copies. (He is forth generation Regular Army BTW))

3. Sniper rifles. Drag eight or ten rifles out of one of Martin Peglers books and put them through their paces. Give us the history and details and quirks of the design.

If available give the thoughts of the people who have used or are currently using the weapons. I'm in the middle of US INFANTRY WEAPONS IN COMBAT by Mark Goodwin with a forward by Scott A. Duff. It is simply the thoughts and experiences of US Servicemen regarding the small arms of WWII and Korea. I can't put it down.

Gun Magazines have a unique place in American. They can educate new shooters and swell the ranks of gun owning voters. They can capture the interest of young men and help get them interested and skilled in shooting before they are called upon to defend our country. Or they can be fluffy rags pandering to an industry. I personally would love to respect the Gun Publishers like I did in the past.

For what its worth the M1 Magazine you put out a few months ago is the best magazine published in the past year IMO. I believe I have bought most of your specialty magazines with the exception of the AK one (i don't care for the AK). The fact that I keep them with my reference books rather than putting them in the gun magazine box that will go to the basement tells me something.

Anyway that's my two cents worth.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any details you guys would like to see?</div></div>

I would like to see the specific build details and ammunition used for test. That sounds very accurate for that platform.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunslinger2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just in case you guys are interested, I'm currently working on an article on the TACOM M14EBR-RI. I had a rare invite to visit Rock Island and spend a day with the TACOM team to watch them convert hundreds of M14s brought out of storage and test them on their indoor range facility. They put the target in the box with the rifle before shipping out to deploying units. Then they slap two stickers certifying the MOA measurement. The reject is 1.5 MOA at 100 yards, but in the course of the last few years, only one rifle ever failed their tests. I saw more than 100 rifles in boxes and the worst MOA measurement was something like .92. The best was .60. That ought to draw some interests. We took pictures through the entire process (including our range time) and are going to get some good quality shots of an escorted sample in our photo studio. Any details you guys would like to see? </div></div>

Is that accuracy with the original barrel?
Do they still cost 3K each? If so why?
Have they gotten the weight down? IIRC they run 15 lbs.
Are they testing large lots or weapons and only converting the best?
What glass are they using?
Mounting details?
What are the provided tools and kit issued with the rifle?
Details on the test and issue ammo?
How much longer will they be doing these? My understanding is they were making 5000 as a stop gap until decisions could be made on a standard issue DMR.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

3 questions. ebr is all moa? is this saying any m1a dumped into the ebr is moa or is there some poor soul somewhere going thru stacks of m1a's poppin them into an ebr, testing precision then scrappin the half or 3/4 that wont do moa? can i be that guy?
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

Thanks for the welcome. Working with the Sako TRG-42 for 10 days in ice was a brutal test on me. I have to admit that it was tempting to take short cuts or neglect the cold bore aspect of it, but it just wouldn't have been right. I walked away a bigger believer in that rifle and the .338.

FYI, I'm on the road in NH at Sig Sauer testing the new P516 alongside a number of other variations of the P556, Tactical 2 and SSG 3000. Should I be starting a new thread and posting my results? They'd just be the basic 100 yard info since that's the range I'm limited to here.

I couldn't find that roll of pasties that I was looking for before I left but I think that sticker was 2" or so. I'll keep looking when I return home on May 10. I'm flying to California for a suppressor course on Thursday.

Best,
Eric
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunslinger2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have to admit that it was tempting to take short cuts or neglect the cold bore aspect of it, but it just wouldn't have been right. I walked away a bigger believer in that rifle and the .338.</div></div>

I'm sure glad to hear someone else say that.
smile.gif


Yeah, I'd definately be intersted to hear anything you have to say about the Sig 516. Is your report coming out in a future G&A? TIA.

okie
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunslinger2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just in case you guys are interested, I'm currently working on an article on the TACOM M14EBR-RI. I had a rare invite to visit Rock Island and spend a day with the TACOM team to watch them convert hundreds of M14s brought out of storage and test them on their indoor range facility. They put the target in the box with the rifle before shipping out to deploying units. Then they slap two stickers certifying the MOA measurement. The reject is 1.5 MOA at 100 yards, but in the course of the last few years, only one rifle ever failed their tests. I saw more than 100 rifles in boxes and the worst MOA measurement was something like .92. The best was .60. That ought to draw some interests. We took pictures through the entire process (including our range time) and are going to get some good quality shots of an escorted sample in our photo studio. Any details you guys would like to see? </div></div>


Did you get to meet Mike P. ?? ... He goes by "builder" over on The M14HDW Forum were you will find a ton of information on the M14EBR-RI.
I met Mike at the last AAC silencer shoot, he was there checking out my M14s built by SEI and my SEI/Fisher sound suppressor.
He is a great guy, very knowledgeable and helpful... and he gave me a M14EBR-RI T-shirt
cool.gif


TACOM-RI-a.jpg


MK14SEI-MOD0-RI-Tshirt.jpg


 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... is this saying any m1a dumped into the ebr is moa or is .... </div></div>

Group size is normally cut in half just by bolting the action into a SAGE EBR stock.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Prairie Dog Dundee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

1. Is that accuracy with the original barrel?
2. Do they still cost 3K each? If so why?
3. Have they gotten the weight down? IIRC they run 15 lbs.
4. Are they testing large lots or weapons and only converting the best?
5. What glass are they using?
6. Mounting details?
7. What are the provided tools and kit issued with the rifle?
8. Details on the test and issue ammo?
98. How much longer will they be doing these? My understanding is they were making 5000 as a stop gap until decisions could be made on a standard issue DMR.
</div></div>

1. Yes, the original chrome lined barrel is used.
2. The rifle was paid for long ago. The stock, bi pod & mount, scope, rings, mount, VFG, assembly and test firing cost money.
3. They are a little on the heavy side.
4. RI pulls from a stash of about 80K rack grade M14s that are new or that were refitted long ago.
5. Leupold 3.5 to 10 MKIV - no illuminated reticle.
6. SAGE M14DCSB
7. I don't know about the tools, but I think some are included.
8. I believe M118LR ammo is used at RI.
9. They are more than a "stop-gap". The 5000 M14EBR-RI rifles and other modernized M14s will be around for quite some time.

EBR019-1.jpg
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those things look like a piece of farm equipment...like you could drive posts with them.
I may just need another M1A
wink.gif
</div></div>

grin.gif
You won't be disappointed.

M21A5CHEBR-SASS.jpg
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

Yeah, I met Mike at Rock Island. He was awesome. Those guys have mastered the M14. He performed the circus trick of shooting a dime off a target at 100 yards with a rifle he built in front of me in just 15 minutes.

The M14EBR-RI article should be appearing soon in Guns & Ammo. I'm not quite sure which magazine the Sig Sauer P516 article will appear. I'm lobbying for G&A, but it may actual run in this summer's issue of Tactical Operator otherwise. I'm still on the road. I left Sig Sauer on Wednesday, picked up an airplane that has now brought me to Burbank, CA. I just finished day one of a Police Sniper course sponsored by Surefire. I'm using an LMT .308 again equipped with a Surefire can. Unlike the L129A1 test though where I had to shoot the M80 ball, I'm only using Federal Gold Medal with the Sierra Matchking bullet through this course. The course is run by ITTS and is pretty high speed. Zeroed the LMT at 100 yards and punched a few 3-shot groups that were one single hole that appears as two shots. The instructors (one a legendary LAPD SWAT member and the other a former SEAL Team member) had us doing up downs between each shot at targets at various distances out to 373 yards (says rangefinder). Working with the Nightforce 2.5-10X. Nice optic. Learned a new trick regarding "Speed Dialing" with a triangle piece of tape on the elevation turret. Instructor would call out a target and we'd have less than 5 seconds to speed dial the range and take a shot. My favorite part of the day. Tomorrow we're supposedly working through obstacle courses and engaging with night vision until 10PM at the Angeles Shooting Range. This facility is Southern California's hidden gem.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those things look like a piece of farm equipment...like you could drive posts with them.
I may just need another M1A
wink.gif
</div></div>

grin.gif
You won't be disappointed.

M21A5CHEBR-SASS.jpg
</div></div>

I never get tired of seeing that picture.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunslinger2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Love your EBR configuration H20 MAN. </div></div>

Thank you!

The MK14 SEI USN SEAL CH Mod 0 was my first and the M21A5 CH EBR is the most recent build.
I also have another MK14 SEI rifle that I keep reconfiguring and experimenting with and then there is the M21A5 RRM.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oodin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those things look like a piece of farm equipment...like you could drive posts with them.
I may just need another M1A
wink.gif
</div></div>

grin.gif
You won't be disappointed.

M21A5CHEBR-SASS.jpg
</div></div>

I never get tired of seeing that picture. </div></div>

Thank you!

The sunset on that winter day provided the perfect filtered lighting.
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunslinger2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, I met Mike at Rock Island. He was awesome. Those guys have mastered the M14. He performed the circus trick of shooting a dime off a target at 100 yards with a rifle he built in front of me in just 15 minutes.

The M14EBR-RI article should be appearing soon in Guns & Ammo. I'm not quite sure which magazine the Sig Sauer P516 article will appear. I'm lobbying for G&A, but it may actual run in this summer's issue of Tactical Operator otherwise. I'm still on the road. I left Sig Sauer on Wednesday, picked up an airplane that has now brought me to Burbank, CA. I just finished day one of a Police Sniper course sponsored by Surefire. I'm using an LMT .308 again equipped with a Surefire can. Unlike the L129A1 test though where I had to shoot the M80 ball, I'm only using Federal Gold Medal with the Sierra Matchking bullet through this course. The course is run by ITTS and is pretty high speed. Zeroed the LMT at 100 yards and punched a few 3-shot groups that were one single hole that appears as two shots. The instructors (one a legendary LAPD SWAT member and the other a former SEAL Team member) had us doing up downs between each shot at targets at various distances out to 373 yards (says rangefinder). Working with the Nightforce 2.5-10X. Nice optic. Learned a new trick regarding "Speed Dialing" with a triangle piece of tape on the elevation turret. Instructor would call out a target and we'd have less than 5 seconds to speed dial the range and take a shot. My favorite part of the day. Tomorrow we're supposedly working through obstacle courses and engaging with night vision until 10PM at the Angeles Shooting Range. This facility is Southern California's hidden gem. </div></div>

I have a few quick questions.
Did you get velocity figures with the FGM and the LMT?
Will you explain the "triangle piece of tape trick" in the article?
How many Specialty Magazines are published?
Do they have a scheduled date for publication?
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

Hey Prairie Dog Dundee,

I'm still at the IMO Roundtable, so I'll get back to you on the velocity numbers of FGM in the LMT.

TAPE TRICK - They called it speed dialing. They took a square white target pasty, cut it diagonally (triangle) and, after zeroing our rifles, placed the triangle upside down on the elevation turret so that it points back to the shooter (zero stop). We then ranged our targets, and recorded our dope for the various ranges. Until we memorized our dope for the FGM in the LMT, we referenced our individual data book and calculations we determined. Pretty quickly, we had dope memorized out to 400 yards. The major references were how many clicks to dial up for 100, 200, 300, and 400. With those numbers memorized, we used the clock system when looking at the direction the triangle on the elevation turret was pointing. Then, as the course increased stress and tested rangefinding skills, we quickly "speed dialed" the elevation by looking at the position of the triangle rather than counting clicks. When shooting at night with NVGs, this made a big difference because you can't see the numbers and tick marks on the turrets, but you can make out the white shape of the triangle. So it was much faster to dial in within 2-3 clicks on the Nightforce when engaging multiple Larue targets at various distances. This also allowed us to use the center crosshair rather than shooting on the Mil-Dot system or using Kentucky windage. Did I explain that clearly?

Last year, I produced about 22 specialty magazines to include a few client magazines (like Nikon, Mossberg, CZ-USA, Taurus, and FN). Besides that I have been working on developing new one-shot niche magazines (like M1 Magazine and Bullpup Rifles), and redesigning our popular Book of the AK47, Book of the AR15, and Combat Arms for example.

I do have a calendar that only goes as far as a fiscal year. It isn't predictable year-to-year though and a follow-up specialty issue depends on reader feedback/sales. Hence, I can only provide information about 6-9 months ahead at any given time. But since the redesigns and new titles, my command to writers to avoid fluff pieces and cover newsworthy stories (rather than advertising-related-only stories) has seemed to result in positive feedback at the newsstands, go figure.

Next year, I'm thinking about trying to create a suppressor/SBR-only magazine, but don't quite know what to call it. Thoughts?

Good questions!

-Eric Poole
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunslinger2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Prairie Dog Dundee,

I'm still at the IMO Roundtable, so I'll get back to you on the velocity numbers of FGM in the LMT.

TAPE TRICK - They called it speed dialing. They took a square white target pasty, cut it diagonally (triangle) and, after zeroing our rifles, placed the triangle upside down on the elevation turret so that it points back to the shooter (zero stop). We then ranged our targets, and recorded our dope for the various ranges. Until we memorized our dope for the FGM in the LMT, we referenced our individual data book and calculations we determined. Pretty quickly, we had dope memorized out to 400 yards. The major references were how many clicks to dial up for 100, 200, 300, and 400. With those numbers memorized, we used the clock system when looking at the direction the triangle on the elevation turret was pointing. Then, as the course increased stress and tested rangefinding skills, we quickly "speed dialed" the elevation by looking at the position of the triangle rather than counting clicks. When shooting at night with NVGs, this made a big difference because you can't see the numbers and tick marks on the turrets, but you can make out the white shape of the triangle. So it was much faster to dial in within 2-3 clicks on the Nightforce when engaging multiple Larue targets at various distances. This also allowed us to use the center crosshair rather than shooting on the Mil-Dot system or using Kentucky windage. Did I explain that clearly?

Last year, I produced about 22 specialty magazines to include a few client magazines (like Nikon, Mossberg, CZ-USA, Taurus, and FN). Besides that I have been working on developing new one-shot niche magazines (like M1 Magazine and Bullpup Rifles), and redesigning our popular Book of the AK47, Book of the AR15, and Combat Arms for example.

I do have a calendar that only goes as far as a fiscal year. It isn't predictable year-to-year though and a follow-up specialty issue depends on reader feedback/sales. Hence, I can only provide information about 6-9 months ahead at any given time. But since the redesigns and new titles, my command to writers to avoid fluff pieces and cover newsworthy stories (rather than advertising-related-only stories) has seemed to result in positive feedback at the newsstands, go figure.

Next year, I'm thinking about trying to create a suppressor/SBR-only magazine, but don't quite know what to call it. Thoughts?

Good questions!

-Eric Poole </div></div>

Hey Back at ya

I'm looking forward to seeing the FGM/LMT figures.

Yes, you explained the tape trick clearly. While I don't use night vision. We do have informal Steel Shoots in the desert where time is a factor. I going to try this trick. Thanks for posting it.

If you published 22 in the last year some of them got by me.
I have several of the client magazines and frankly I like them. Yea I know I complain about advertising related stories. But these have been more of a mega brochure and you know what you are buying when you pick one up. The Tazer/Mossberg article was very interesting. The CZ magazine was read cover to cover but I'm an easy touch for CZ. I own five of their guns and am very pleased with all of them. In fact I bought two more of their bolt action 22s to get two of my nephews started. The price and quality make them bargains.

<span style="font-style: italic">I guess what I was asking above is what is the best way find out what speciality magazine is coming out and when?</span> Because of their nature it does not seem possible to subscribe...or is it?

I see that the Bullpup issue is due out next week. My son wished for an issue Bullpup while in Iraq. Several times he was required to go into tight places like under buildings and into swamps looking for escaped POWs with a K9 leash in one hand and an M4 in the other. He believes short well ballanced bullpup would have better met his needs

Earlier in this thread I suggested a "weapons of the enemy issue". Since then I bought the current AK47 issue. The collaborative article by David Fortier and LTC McCormick was outstanding and just what I was talking about. The odds of getting a legal TABUK in your office may not be good but if you can get these two to team up on other weapons facing our troops I'll buy it. A knowledgeable man on the ground in Iraq or Afghanistan working with a good writer is an excellent combination. The AVTOMAT SNIPER and AKs of AFGANISTAN were also very good.

The suppressor/SBR-only idea is intriguing. My experience with suppressors is limited to a small one my son has for a Kahr 9mm. We used it a little on a Mac 10 by only loading a few rounds in the mag, (I can't touch the trigger on that thing and put out less than eight). As to a title? How about starting a thread with a contest. Plenty of bright people on Snipers Hide that may have suggestions. My entry is CAN YOUR GUNS?? to get attention and subtitled suppressor/SBR issue to explain it.

regards
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Learned a new trick regarding "Speed Dialing" with a triangle piece of tape on the elevation turret. Instructor would call out a target and we'd have less than 5 seconds to speed dial the range and take a shot.</div></div>

If you want to be fast in multiple-target multiple-distance engagements, learn to shoot them using reticle holds without having to touch the scope knob.

Calculating Holdovers and Holdunders
 
Re: Combat Arms LMT Article. Whats wrong with this

Eric Poole,

This topic is key to me. I picked up your magazine at the AAFES PX here on Joint Base Balad. I'm doing a tad more research but between here and what I've seen in the magazine I am planning on purchasing a LMT .308, so thanks!

I'm over here in Iraq as part of the retrograde/draw down mission and am starting to see M24 or similar sniper rifles come through the system. I haven't seen any M14s yet, but I will keep my eyes open.

I am curious if the M14s being shipped out from RI are going in similar cases to the M24 systems, did you happen to get a shot of the outgoing or full setup? I don't know if you can, but throwing in the official list of NSN numbers might help any Soldier in Afghanistan who has one, and broke or needs one of those small pieces you can never seem to get the NSN for. Or, contact info for RI (other than go see AMC) to ship M14s to for refit. Gear Scout in Army Times has shown a couple M14s over there that are simply the old version (wood stocks) with a scope on it.

Contact for armorers to get certified in refits (or just plain info) might be cool too... ok, so I'm turning you into PS Monthly all of a sudden, but any way to get info out is good!

Eric
Army Material Command, Iraq