I just picked up a S&B PMII 4-16x42 for my .260 With a NF 20moa base I used a surprising amount of "UP" elevation to get my 100 yard zero. Since the scope has a relatively limited amount of UP elevation on the single turn turret I'm only able to dial to 10mils before I'm up against the limit of the scope. I measured the amount of DOWN elevation that I have available and I have 7 DOWN mils available. Going to a 30moa base would let me dial to almost 13 mils UP, and going to a 40moa base would let me dial all the way to 13 mils. Since I have 7 mils DOWN available to me I should have no problem zeroing with a 40moa base, right?
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Rifle Scopes Confirming something, probably a dumb question
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Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
If I were you, I would choose the 30moa base. According to my math the 40moa base will make you about bottom out trying to zero. If you change your load much you may be screwed, and you will be very limited in windage adjustments that far down.
On a side note, I was the NCOIC of the 101st Airborne Divisions color guard in Holland for the 60th anniversary of Operation Market Garden. Awesome time and great people over there.
If I were you, I would choose the 30moa base. According to my math the 40moa base will make you about bottom out trying to zero. If you change your load much you may be screwed, and you will be very limited in windage adjustments that far down.
On a side note, I was the NCOIC of the 101st Airborne Divisions color guard in Holland for the 60th anniversary of Operation Market Garden. Awesome time and great people over there.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
Just playing around with it, I can dial to within .5mils of the end of the elevation travel and then dial 5 mils of windage, so I don't anticipate that being a problem.
The manual says I have 16 mils total elevation, but I can dial 17 on my scope before I hit the stops. Even being really conservative and figuring things based on 16 mils total I should have 1.6 mils of DOWN left over with a 40moa base. As far as zeroing with different loads, the only time I'd need more down adjustment would be if I were shooting something even flatter shooting, right? I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just trying to make sure I understand everything that has to be taken into account.
Just playing around with it, I can dial to within .5mils of the end of the elevation travel and then dial 5 mils of windage, so I don't anticipate that being a problem.
The manual says I have 16 mils total elevation, but I can dial 17 on my scope before I hit the stops. Even being really conservative and figuring things based on 16 mils total I should have 1.6 mils of DOWN left over with a 40moa base. As far as zeroing with different loads, the only time I'd need more down adjustment would be if I were shooting something even flatter shooting, right? I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just trying to make sure I understand everything that has to be taken into account.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
Defifintely run the more slope, but prior to anything confirm that the reticle is actually travelling for all the adjustemnt available.
If you change caliblers the amount of adjustment you have available "down" would come more into play from a variation of the bore's axis due to machining differences than 100yd zero trajectory. The 1.6 mil you'd theoretically have would cover just about any load changes.
Defifintely run the more slope, but prior to anything confirm that the reticle is actually travelling for all the adjustemnt available.
If you change caliblers the amount of adjustment you have available "down" would come more into play from a variation of the bore's axis due to machining differences than 100yd zero trajectory. The 1.6 mil you'd theoretically have would cover just about any load changes.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
That scope was intended to be used with a 28 MOA base, so 30 would be a good choice.
That scope was intended to be used with a 28 MOA base, so 30 would be a good choice.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just playing around with it, I can dial to within .5mils of the end of the elevation travel and then dial 5 mils of windage, so I don't anticipate that being a problem.
The manual says I have 16 mils total elevation, but I can dial 17 on my scope before I hit the stops. Even being really conservative and figuring things based on 16 mils total I should have 1.6 mils of DOWN left over with a 40moa base. As far as zeroing with different loads, the only time I'd need more down adjustment would be if I were shooting something even flatter shooting, right? I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just trying to make sure I understand everything that has to be taken into account. </div></div>
I have 2 S&B scopes PMII 5-25 and 12-50. The turrets on both will spin a little bit past where the erector stops moving. I tested this with a Leupold bore sighter and saw this for myself. You probably have a little less total UP then you think.
Also, in theory your math is correct, but you are not taking into consideration that your current base might not be exactly 20 MOA. It could be a little out of spec which causes a false baseline for your math.
If you have to have more UP I would get a 30 MOA, I think 40 might screw you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just playing around with it, I can dial to within .5mils of the end of the elevation travel and then dial 5 mils of windage, so I don't anticipate that being a problem.
The manual says I have 16 mils total elevation, but I can dial 17 on my scope before I hit the stops. Even being really conservative and figuring things based on 16 mils total I should have 1.6 mils of DOWN left over with a 40moa base. As far as zeroing with different loads, the only time I'd need more down adjustment would be if I were shooting something even flatter shooting, right? I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just trying to make sure I understand everything that has to be taken into account. </div></div>
I have 2 S&B scopes PMII 5-25 and 12-50. The turrets on both will spin a little bit past where the erector stops moving. I tested this with a Leupold bore sighter and saw this for myself. You probably have a little less total UP then you think.
Also, in theory your math is correct, but you are not taking into consideration that your current base might not be exactly 20 MOA. It could be a little out of spec which causes a false baseline for your math.
If you have to have more UP I would get a 30 MOA, I think 40 might screw you.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dieselten</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just playing around with it, I can dial to within .5mils of the end of the elevation travel and then dial 5 mils of windage, so I don't anticipate that being a problem.
The manual says I have 16 mils total elevation, but I can dial 17 on my scope before I hit the stops. Even being really conservative and figuring things based on 16 mils total I should have 1.6 mils of DOWN left over with a 40moa base. As far as zeroing with different loads, the only time I'd need more down adjustment would be if I were shooting something even flatter shooting, right? I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just trying to make sure I understand everything that has to be taken into account. </div></div>
I have 2 S&B scopes PMII 5-25 and 12-50. The turrets on both will spin a little bit past where the erector stops moving. I tested this with a Leupold bore sighter and saw this for myself. You probably have a little less total UP then you think.
Also, in theory your math is correct, but you are not taking into consideration that your current base might not be exactly 20 MOA. It could be a little out of spec which causes a false baseline for your math.
If you have to have more UP I would get a 30 MOA, I think 40 might screw you.</div></div>
Thanks, I'll check to make sure I know where the reticle actually stops moving. I would hope that for the money the NF base I have now is actually 20moa.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dieselten</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just playing around with it, I can dial to within .5mils of the end of the elevation travel and then dial 5 mils of windage, so I don't anticipate that being a problem.
The manual says I have 16 mils total elevation, but I can dial 17 on my scope before I hit the stops. Even being really conservative and figuring things based on 16 mils total I should have 1.6 mils of DOWN left over with a 40moa base. As far as zeroing with different loads, the only time I'd need more down adjustment would be if I were shooting something even flatter shooting, right? I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just trying to make sure I understand everything that has to be taken into account. </div></div>
I have 2 S&B scopes PMII 5-25 and 12-50. The turrets on both will spin a little bit past where the erector stops moving. I tested this with a Leupold bore sighter and saw this for myself. You probably have a little less total UP then you think.
Also, in theory your math is correct, but you are not taking into consideration that your current base might not be exactly 20 MOA. It could be a little out of spec which causes a false baseline for your math.
If you have to have more UP I would get a 30 MOA, I think 40 might screw you.</div></div>
Thanks, I'll check to make sure I know where the reticle actually stops moving. I would hope that for the money the NF base I have now is actually 20moa.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
I assume you installed the base in the right direction. I had the same problem with my 10fp till a frend told me I had installed base backwards. duh
I assume you installed the base in the right direction. I had the same problem with my 10fp till a frend told me I had installed base backwards. duh
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hogrider2003flht</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I assume you installed the base in the right direction. I had the same problem with my 10fp till a frend told me I had installed base backwards. duh</div></div>
Yeah, it's the right way. I don't think the hole spacing on a 700 will even allow you to install it backwards.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hogrider2003flht</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I assume you installed the base in the right direction. I had the same problem with my 10fp till a frend told me I had installed base backwards. duh</div></div>
Yeah, it's the right way. I don't think the hole spacing on a 700 will even allow you to install it backwards.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
Have you tried re zeroing the scope? with a single turn s&b you should get 13mils up no matter what base you use, its the nature of the knob not the amount of adjustment in the scope. stick with your 20moa base it will be fine.
I could be wrong but no matte what base you use as long as you can zero it at your specified distance (100yds recommended) you will have 13mils of travel. to me its alot like the leupold m3 turrets which are a very basic but reliable system. honestly i am sure leupold copied s&b since they were both made for the military.
This was the case with mine, maybe they are not all the same. i love the single turn knob you can't get lost and really how often do you need more than 13 mils, on my 7mm-08 that takes me to around 1450yds.
Have you tried re zeroing the scope? with a single turn s&b you should get 13mils up no matter what base you use, its the nature of the knob not the amount of adjustment in the scope. stick with your 20moa base it will be fine.
I could be wrong but no matte what base you use as long as you can zero it at your specified distance (100yds recommended) you will have 13mils of travel. to me its alot like the leupold m3 turrets which are a very basic but reliable system. honestly i am sure leupold copied s&b since they were both made for the military.
This was the case with mine, maybe they are not all the same. i love the single turn knob you can't get lost and really how often do you need more than 13 mils, on my 7mm-08 that takes me to around 1450yds.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you tried re zeroing the scope? with a single turn s&b you should get 13mils up no matter what base you use, its the nature of the knob not the amount of adjustment in the scope. stick with your 20moa base it will be fine.
I could be wrong but no matte what base you use as long as you can zero it at your specified distance (100yds recommended) you will have 13mils of travel. to me its alot like the leupold m3 turrets which are a very basic but reliable system. honestly i am sure leupold copied s&b since they were both made for the military.
This was the case with mine, maybe they are not all the same. i love the single turn knob you can't get lost and really how often do you need more than 13 mils, on my 7mm-08 that takes me to around 1450yds.</div></div>
Re zero it? It definitely tops out at 10 mils with my 100 yard zero.
I was under the impression that they come pre-adjusted for a canted base and that I should be close on the first shot at 100 yards. It took me 5.5 mils of UP from where it came from the factory to zero at 100 with my 20moa NF base on there.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you tried re zeroing the scope? with a single turn s&b you should get 13mils up no matter what base you use, its the nature of the knob not the amount of adjustment in the scope. stick with your 20moa base it will be fine.
I could be wrong but no matte what base you use as long as you can zero it at your specified distance (100yds recommended) you will have 13mils of travel. to me its alot like the leupold m3 turrets which are a very basic but reliable system. honestly i am sure leupold copied s&b since they were both made for the military.
This was the case with mine, maybe they are not all the same. i love the single turn knob you can't get lost and really how often do you need more than 13 mils, on my 7mm-08 that takes me to around 1450yds.</div></div>
Re zero it? It definitely tops out at 10 mils with my 100 yard zero.
I was under the impression that they come pre-adjusted for a canted base and that I should be close on the first shot at 100 yards. It took me 5.5 mils of UP from where it came from the factory to zero at 100 with my 20moa NF base on there.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just picked up a S&B PMII 4-16x42 for my .260 With a NF 20moa base I used a surprising amount of "UP" elevation to get my 100 yard zero. Since the scope has a relatively limited amount of UP elevation on the single turn turret I'm only able to dial to 10mils before I'm up against the limit of the scope. I measured the amount of DOWN elevation that I have available and I have 7 DOWN mils available. Going to a 30moa base would let me dial to almost 13 mils UP, and going to a 40moa base would let me dial all the way to 13 mils. Since I have 7 mils DOWN available to me I should have no problem zeroing with a 40moa base, right? </div></div>
Not bagging on you, but this is why you should do your research before you buy. PMII scopes have their reticle adjusted out-of-center by half of their total travel, so in order to be return the reticle back to center and thus be able to get the full travel out of a PMII scope you must use a canted base that approximates half of the elevation travel of the PMII being mounted. <span style="font-weight: bold">This information is found on Page 3 of the</span> <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Schmidt & Bender User manual for PMII Scopes"</span></span> under <span style="font-weight: bold">Section 4.2 "Adjustment range and forward angle"</span>.
In the case of the PMII 4-16X 13 MIL ST that means you need about 6.5 MILs' of compensation cant in the mount. That is about 22.350 MOA/23.400", which is why <span style="font-style: italic">Lindy</span> said the recommended base is 28 MOA. In reality you can probably get full travel using either a 25 MOA or 30 MOA base.
I don't know how you arrived at a 20 MOA base, but I surmise it was from reading on this or another shooter's forum. Nothing wrong with a 20 MOA base, and a lot of people recommend a 20 MOA base for use on a centerfire rifle because a 20 MOA base will typically get you close to a 100 yard zero with minimal elevation adjustment. The 20 MOA base also "shifts" 20 MOA of the scope's Elevation adjustment to the upper end of the adjustment range, extending the scope's "usable" adjustment range, allowing a typical .308 to get to 1,000 yards with factory ammo. However, as you have discovered <span style="font-style: italic">after the fact</span>, you don't have the full range of adjustment available with the 20 MOA base.
I highly recommend getting a 28 MOA base from <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">NEAR Manufacturing</span></span> or <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Seekins Precision</span></span>. Both are top-quality, very well-designed and feature great machining and finish. Richard Near and Glen Seekins will make custom MOA bases at your request. NEAR bases are stainless steel while Seekins bases are aluminum. In my experience both NEAR and Seekins have better machining and finish quality than Badger and USO.
Another manufacturer of custom bases (and ring too) is <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Murphy Precision</span></span>. So far I don't have any experience with Murphy Precision products, but several Hide members and members from other firearms sites have had good experiences with Murphy Precision customer bases. Cameron Murphy is making a 25 MOA two-piece base for a Kimber Model 82B I have. Murphy usually makes one-piece bases but I wanted a base that didn't look "tactical" or restrict the port area, which on a .22 is small to begin with.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just picked up a S&B PMII 4-16x42 for my .260 With a NF 20moa base I used a surprising amount of "UP" elevation to get my 100 yard zero. Since the scope has a relatively limited amount of UP elevation on the single turn turret I'm only able to dial to 10mils before I'm up against the limit of the scope. I measured the amount of DOWN elevation that I have available and I have 7 DOWN mils available. Going to a 30moa base would let me dial to almost 13 mils UP, and going to a 40moa base would let me dial all the way to 13 mils. Since I have 7 mils DOWN available to me I should have no problem zeroing with a 40moa base, right? </div></div>
Not bagging on you, but this is why you should do your research before you buy. PMII scopes have their reticle adjusted out-of-center by half of their total travel, so in order to be return the reticle back to center and thus be able to get the full travel out of a PMII scope you must use a canted base that approximates half of the elevation travel of the PMII being mounted. <span style="font-weight: bold">This information is found on Page 3 of the</span> <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Schmidt & Bender User manual for PMII Scopes"</span></span> under <span style="font-weight: bold">Section 4.2 "Adjustment range and forward angle"</span>.
In the case of the PMII 4-16X 13 MIL ST that means you need about 6.5 MILs' of compensation cant in the mount. That is about 22.350 MOA/23.400", which is why <span style="font-style: italic">Lindy</span> said the recommended base is 28 MOA. In reality you can probably get full travel using either a 25 MOA or 30 MOA base.
I don't know how you arrived at a 20 MOA base, but I surmise it was from reading on this or another shooter's forum. Nothing wrong with a 20 MOA base, and a lot of people recommend a 20 MOA base for use on a centerfire rifle because a 20 MOA base will typically get you close to a 100 yard zero with minimal elevation adjustment. The 20 MOA base also "shifts" 20 MOA of the scope's Elevation adjustment to the upper end of the adjustment range, extending the scope's "usable" adjustment range, allowing a typical .308 to get to 1,000 yards with factory ammo. However, as you have discovered <span style="font-style: italic">after the fact</span>, you don't have the full range of adjustment available with the 20 MOA base.
I highly recommend getting a 28 MOA base from <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">NEAR Manufacturing</span></span> or <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Seekins Precision</span></span>. Both are top-quality, very well-designed and feature great machining and finish. Richard Near and Glen Seekins will make custom MOA bases at your request. NEAR bases are stainless steel while Seekins bases are aluminum. In my experience both NEAR and Seekins have better machining and finish quality than Badger and USO.
Another manufacturer of custom bases (and ring too) is <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Murphy Precision</span></span>. So far I don't have any experience with Murphy Precision products, but several Hide members and members from other firearms sites have had good experiences with Murphy Precision customer bases. Cameron Murphy is making a 25 MOA two-piece base for a Kimber Model 82B I have. Murphy usually makes one-piece bases but I wanted a base that didn't look "tactical" or restrict the port area, which on a .22 is small to begin with.
Keith
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is about 22.350 MOA/23.400...</div></div>
Indeed - but remember that you're going to use a bit more than 4 MOA of "up" elevation getting a 100 yard or meter zero - which is why, for that scope, 28 MOA is close to ideal.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is about 22.350 MOA/23.400...</div></div>
Indeed - but remember that you're going to use a bit more than 4 MOA of "up" elevation getting a 100 yard or meter zero - which is why, for that scope, 28 MOA is close to ideal.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
I knew about the fact they came adjusted out of center, but I didn't put 2 and 2 together. Based on my calculation and knowing that with my 100 yard zero I have 10 mils left even a 30moa base wouldn't let me use all 13 mils on the turret since the additional 10moa I would gain coming from the base I have now would only give me back 2.7 mils. A 40moa base (or at least something more than 30moa) would give me back enough to use all 13 mils on the turret, and it would leave me with more than 1 mil of down adjustment from my 100 yard zero as well. That's my line of thinking at least.
I knew about the fact they came adjusted out of center, but I didn't put 2 and 2 together. Based on my calculation and knowing that with my 100 yard zero I have 10 mils left even a 30moa base wouldn't let me use all 13 mils on the turret since the additional 10moa I would gain coming from the base I have now would only give me back 2.7 mils. A 40moa base (or at least something more than 30moa) would give me back enough to use all 13 mils on the turret, and it would leave me with more than 1 mil of down adjustment from my 100 yard zero as well. That's my line of thinking at least.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
i don't know what to tell you mine worked fine with a 20moa base on it.
i didn't mean rezero i meant reset the knob to zero. bring it out to the match on feb 27th and we will get it figured out for you.
i don't know what to tell you mine worked fine with a 20moa base on it.
i didn't mean rezero i meant reset the knob to zero. bring it out to the match on feb 27th and we will get it figured out for you.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i don't know what to tell you mine worked fine with a 20moa base on it.
i didn't mean rezero i meant reset the knob to zero. bring it out to the match on feb 27th and we will get it figured out for you.</div></div>
Ah, the knob is reset to zero. Where are you guys shooting on the 27th? I've been out of the bolt gun game since last year, focusing mostly on AR shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i don't know what to tell you mine worked fine with a 20moa base on it.
i didn't mean rezero i meant reset the knob to zero. bring it out to the match on feb 27th and we will get it figured out for you.</div></div>
Ah, the knob is reset to zero. Where are you guys shooting on the 27th? I've been out of the bolt gun game since last year, focusing mostly on AR shooting.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
The question that might be useful to ask yourself is... How far you want to shoot, then you will know how many mils you need to get there, and the equipment needed to do it.
TC
The question that might be useful to ask yourself is... How far you want to shoot, then you will know how many mils you need to get there, and the equipment needed to do it.
TC
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The question that might be useful to ask yourself is... How far you want to shoot, then you will know how many mils you need to get there, and the equipment needed to do it.
TC</div></div>
Of the last 3 matches I've shot, 2 of them had targets past 1200. I'd like to be able to use all the elevation I can get.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The question that might be useful to ask yourself is... How far you want to shoot, then you will know how many mils you need to get there, and the equipment needed to do it.
TC</div></div>
Of the last 3 matches I've shot, 2 of them had targets past 1200. I'd like to be able to use all the elevation I can get.
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you tried re zeroing the scope? with a single turn s&b you should get 13mils up no matter what base you use, its the nature of the knob not the amount of adjustment in the scope. stick with your 20moa base it will be fine.</div></div>
Nope. <span style="font-style: italic">The MOA of the base does matter.</span> As I stated in my reply to <span style="font-style: italic">Market Garden</span>, this is documented in the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Schmidt & Bender User manual for PMII Scopes"</span></span> on Page 3 under <span style="font-weight: bold">Section 4.2 "Adjustment range and forward angle"</span>.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could be wrong but no matte what base you use as long as you can zero it at your specified distance (100yds recommended) you will have 13mils of travel. to me its alot like the leupold m3 turrets which are a very basic but reliable system. honestly i am sure leupold copied s&b since they were both made for the military.</div></div>
I have no experience with a Leupold M3-equipped scope, but the MOA of the base does matter, <span style="font-style: italic">because the PMII reticles are mechanically-offset out-of-center, and require a specified amount of base cant to set the reticle back to center and thus regain the ability to dial the full Elevation range built into the scope.</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This was the case with mine, maybe they are not all the same. i love the single turn knob you can't get lost and really how often do you need more than 13 mils, on my 7mm-08 that takes me to around 1450yds. </div></div>
They aren't all exactly the same, there is typically a little variance from scope to scope, even with S & Bs'.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you tried re zeroing the scope? with a single turn s&b you should get 13mils up no matter what base you use, its the nature of the knob not the amount of adjustment in the scope. stick with your 20moa base it will be fine.</div></div>
Nope. <span style="font-style: italic">The MOA of the base does matter.</span> As I stated in my reply to <span style="font-style: italic">Market Garden</span>, this is documented in the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Schmidt & Bender User manual for PMII Scopes"</span></span> on Page 3 under <span style="font-weight: bold">Section 4.2 "Adjustment range and forward angle"</span>.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could be wrong but no matte what base you use as long as you can zero it at your specified distance (100yds recommended) you will have 13mils of travel. to me its alot like the leupold m3 turrets which are a very basic but reliable system. honestly i am sure leupold copied s&b since they were both made for the military.</div></div>
I have no experience with a Leupold M3-equipped scope, but the MOA of the base does matter, <span style="font-style: italic">because the PMII reticles are mechanically-offset out-of-center, and require a specified amount of base cant to set the reticle back to center and thus regain the ability to dial the full Elevation range built into the scope.</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This was the case with mine, maybe they are not all the same. i love the single turn knob you can't get lost and really how often do you need more than 13 mils, on my 7mm-08 that takes me to around 1450yds. </div></div>
They aren't all exactly the same, there is typically a little variance from scope to scope, even with S & Bs'.
Keith
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is about 22.350 MOA/23.400...</div></div>
Indeed - but remember that you're going to use a bit more than 4 MOA of "up" elevation getting a 100 yard or meter zero - which is why, for that scope, 28 MOA is close to ideal.
</div></div>
Touche' <span style="font-style: italic">Lindy</span>. You're right - the 28 MOA base is ideal for the PMII 4-16X.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is about 22.350 MOA/23.400...</div></div>
Indeed - but remember that you're going to use a bit more than 4 MOA of "up" elevation getting a 100 yard or meter zero - which is why, for that scope, 28 MOA is close to ideal.
</div></div>
Touche' <span style="font-style: italic">Lindy</span>. You're right - the 28 MOA base is ideal for the PMII 4-16X.
Keith
Re: Confirming something, probably a dumb question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zohan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just picked up a S&B PMII 4-16x42 for my .260 With a NF 20moa base I used a surprising amount of "UP" elevation to get my 100 yard zero. Since the scope has a relatively limited amount of UP elevation on the single turn turret I'm only able to dial to 10mils before I'm up against the limit of the scope. I measured the amount of DOWN elevation that I have available and I have 7 DOWN mils available. Going to a 30moa base would let me dial to almost 13 mils UP, and going to a 40moa base would let me dial all the way to 13 mils. Since I have 7 mils DOWN available to me I should have no problem zeroing with a 40moa base, right? </div></div>
Did you loosen the knob and reset to your zero stop? I have no problem getting 13 mils with my 20moa bases..but it sounds like you could be using a 0 moa base.</div></div>
Yes, I re-zeroed the knob. Unless NF mis-marked my base it's 20moa.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zohan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just picked up a S&B PMII 4-16x42 for my .260 With a NF 20moa base I used a surprising amount of "UP" elevation to get my 100 yard zero. Since the scope has a relatively limited amount of UP elevation on the single turn turret I'm only able to dial to 10mils before I'm up against the limit of the scope. I measured the amount of DOWN elevation that I have available and I have 7 DOWN mils available. Going to a 30moa base would let me dial to almost 13 mils UP, and going to a 40moa base would let me dial all the way to 13 mils. Since I have 7 mils DOWN available to me I should have no problem zeroing with a 40moa base, right? </div></div>
Did you loosen the knob and reset to your zero stop? I have no problem getting 13 mils with my 20moa bases..but it sounds like you could be using a 0 moa base.</div></div>
Yes, I re-zeroed the knob. Unless NF mis-marked my base it's 20moa.
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