Conflicting Load Data Help!

[para72]

Somewhat new member, Thanks in advance for your help!

Im using hybrid 100V with hornady 178 bthp in my 06. Load data's are for a 24" 1:10 so i don't understand the discrepancy.Hornady's 8th edition manual shows a starting point of 45.1 @ 2300fps and a max of 53.9 @2700fps.Then I went to hodgdon web site and it had a starting point of 53.0 @ 2585 and a max of 57.0 @ 2742.My question is what should I go bye, bullet manufacturer or powder manufacturer?

Thanks again for your help.

Sent from my SCH-I605

 

[Pahntr760]

Published load data is simply a guide. The rifle in question is the only way to truly determine what is safe and what is not. I usually start around the middle (average) of the lower end of the scale and work up, looking for pressure. Also, as for MV, every barrel is different and may not give the same speeds expected by published data. And different manufactures data can be from different length barrels...hence varying velocities.

In your case, I would start around 52 gr and work up in 1/2 gr increments. Once you find pressure, you can work/fine tune in .2-.3 gr, and seating depths from there. This is just how I do it...others may have differing opinions, but this has worked for me. FWIW, I use Hodgdon's data the most. It seems rather accurate most of the time.

 

[roggom]

I would give Hodgdon tech support a call. Hornady is a bit conservative because they are grouping everything from the 178 Amax to the 180 Interlock RN. If you look at Hodgdons, it has a starting load of 50gn for a 175 SMK, then 53gn for a 180 Sierra gameking, then back to 49gn with a 190 interlock

Has to be case volume after the bullet is seated.

 

[para72]

Pahntr 760, thanks for your input. I plan on starting at 53.0 and go up in .5 inc. To 57.0


Roggom, thanks for your input as well. I tried calling them today and wouldn't you know it, they are closed on Friday! I'll have to try back on Monday.




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[bigedp51]

para72

The Hornady manual is using a Hornady case and the Hodgdon's data is using a Winchester case. The Winchester case has more internal capacity and would generate lower pressures when fired.

Below are two .223/5.56 cases with 30.6 and 28.0 grains of H2O capacity and 6,000 psi difference in chamber pressure with the identical powder charge of 25 grains of H335.

Below a Lake City 5.56 case with 30.6 grains of H2O capacity.

Below a Lapua case with 28.0 grains of H2O capacity.

Reloading manuals are "ball park" data because each firearm will be different along with the components used. Also when a specific firearm is listed for the load data a strain gauge is glued to the barrel and a cartridge of a known pressure is fired to calibrate the strain gauge. Meaning the chamber pressure test equipment is not always the same used in the testing and the data can vary. It helps to have several manuals to "average" the data, and always start low and work up.

Using Quickload set at the default setting of 68.2 grains of H2O capacity and 57.0 grains of Hodgdon Hybrid 100V the chamber pressure is over max at 61,502 psi. Using Nosler brass with 65.1 of H2O capacity the chamber pressure is 69,933 psi. The max rated pressure for the 30-06 is 60,000 psi, so as you can see case capacity plays a big part in "SAFE" chamber pressure.

 

[nuclear_shooter]

para72

The Hornady manual is using a Hornady case and the Hodgdon's data is using a Winchester case. The Winchester case has more internal capacity and would generate lower pressures when fired.

Below are two .223/5.56 cases with 30.6 and 28.0 grains of H2O capacity and 6,000 psi difference in chamber pressure with the identical powder charge of 25 grains of H335.

Below a Lake City 5.56 case with 30.6 grains of H2O capacity.

Below a Lapua case with 28.0 grains of H2O capacity.

Reloading manuals are "ball park" data because each firearm will be different along with the components used. Also when a specific firearm is listed for the load data a strain gauge is glued to the barrel and a cartridge of a known pressure is fired to calibrate the strain gauge. Meaning the chamber pressure test equipment is not always the same used in the testing and the data can vary. It helps to have several manuals to "average" the data, and always start low and work up.

Using Quickload set at the default setting of 68.2 grains of H2O capacity and 57.0 grains of Hodgdon Hybrid 100V the chamber pressure is over max at 61,502 psi. Using Nosler brass with 65.1 of H2O capacity the chamber pressure is 69,933 psi. The max rated pressure for the 30-06 is 60,000 psi, so as you can see case capacity plays a big part in "SAFE" chamber pressure.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...mportant-information-regarding-quickload.html just FYI

 

[Clark]

Gig Harbor?
I partied hard there for 3 days in '72 with a blonde, and all I caught was a cold.

What I would do with an '06, H100V, and 178 HNDY HPBT is start at 53 gr and work up until no more powder will fit.
Then I would go to a faster powder.

 

[bigedp51]

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...mportant-information-regarding-quickload.html just FYI

I'm not selling bootleg copies of Quickload and under the fair use and educational purposes clause of U.S. copyright laws there is nothing wrong with posting information for educational purposes.

It is a German program being sold in the U.S. by NECO who wants his percent of the cut for selling the software.

We are in a reloading forum giving help to people "LEARNING" about reloading. This is called fair use for educational purposes. And just like the handouts your teachers copied from copyrighted textbooks for your education in school.

 

[Clark]

Biged51,
You are really being troublesome.
Give it a break.

 

[bigedp51]

Biged51,
You are really being troublesome.
Give it a break.

Actually Clark its you being a pain in the a$$

Do you actually think being an electronics engineering consultant makes you special in a reloading forum. Every time I see one of your over pressure experiments I wonder what your trying to accomplish other than destroying good brass and damaging your firearms. You do not have "ANY" pressure measuring equipment or have any means to test the hardness of the brass. You need to get over yourself and find a less destructive hobby.

 

[para72]

Bigedp51

Thank you for the knowledge! Just got done loading case's,5 each from 53.0 -57.0 in .5 increments. Weather permitting, I'll be shooting tomorrow. I'll be sure to watch for pressure signs.

Sent from my SCH-I605

 

[Kirkd]

Give it up. He didn't give some actual data that was usable in their workup, which is what Neco didn't want to happen. I think using a graph to explain a point was appropriate and it helps illustrate what quick load can do.


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[nuclear_shooter]

Didn't want to start anythig, just figured I'd point it out to save somebody some trouble

 

[bigedp51]

Didn't want to start anythig, just figured I'd point it out to save somebody some trouble

Everyone should look up "fair use" and educational purposes clause of U.S. copyright laws. "NO ONE" is breaking copyright laws by posting the output data from Quickload. "BUT" copying the Quickload disk and handing out the serial number is a copyright violation. It is a German software program being "distributed" by the American company NECO, and NECO does not hold the copyright to this software, nor can he tell anyone if they can post output data from it. The German who owns Quickload and has the "software" copyright does not own the ballistic data used in the computations of Quikload software output.

Below is what I click on every time I start Quickload.........

"Warning Copyright laws and international treaties protect this software. Unauthorized reproduction or reverse engineering of this program, or any portion thereof, can result in severe civil and criminal penalties"

So again, I'm not selling bootleg copies of Quickload software and the output data I produce does not belong to Quickload.
I can buy a Coke, I can drink a Coke, I can share Coke with my family and friends, "BUT" I can't make soda and sell it as Coke and violate the copyright.

Below is a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet for bolt thrust, Bill Gates and Microsoft can't tell me not to post the data below. This is because I "PAID" to use the software, "BUT" if I copy the software and sell it I would be breaking copyright laws.

I can even sell the Coke bottle back to the state to defray the cost of everyone else drinking "MY" Coke .

Now does anyone want to buy a Clark or 918v Voodoo doll and a lifetime supply of pins.

 

[918v]

You're feeling pretty confident these days, eh?

 

[Deadshot2]

After pawing through a few "handload manuals" years ago the information was in such a conflict I gave up. With the powder manufacturer's data readily available online I haven't consulted a manual for going on 15 years. I start with the published Min/Max for a given powder and bullet then work up a load for MY rifle.

It's amazing how people consider loading manuals to be the absolute gospel when the data is either obtained from a test barrel under ideal conditions or compiled from anecdotal reports from a myriad of shooters using "who knows what" for rifles.

The best "data" one can obtain is that which is produced on your own rifle and the min/max from the mfr's website is all one needs to get started. Save the pride of a reloading manual and buy another pound of powder if all you want from it is "load data".

 

[918v]

When looking at manuals it is important to pay attention to the components being used. That explains much of the discrepancy.

When you're using g the same components as the manual, and have exceeded the listed max, don't be surprised if the load doesn't work out.

 

[Clark]

A..

It's amazing how people consider loading manuals to be the absolute gospel when the data is either obtained from a test barrel under ideal conditions or compiled from anecdotal reports from a myriad of shooters using "who knows what" for rifles.

I have over 50 reloading manuals and do not use them. I have been posting every day on the internet on gun forums since before www gun forums. For 20 years I have been reading "You are crazy and dangerous if you do not follow the instructions in the book.".

But that dwarfs in comparison to how much of the same type of human nature I have heard in engineering conference rooms. We see the political spectrum spread out from collectivism to individualism. But in engineering it is from "do it per procedures" to "ger-r-done". In on line gun forums about reloading it is from load book fundamentalism to developing one's own loads. There is a spectrum because the region between common knowledge and common sense is a gray area. And that line changes for the individual as he becomes a more expert cook, they start deviating more from the recipe book.

In the military this is sometime described as how far you are from the flagpole.

 

[918v]

I do not dispute what you say.

But there is this thing called Monday morning/Friday afternoon tolerances. Take WLR primers in the other thread. They are known to be undersize. The OP then proceeds to shoot 70 thousand PSI loads and complains they're leaking. And he damaged his bolt face to boot!

Now, can his rifle take that kind of pressure? Yes. Is the load safe? Yes. Will the load wear out his rifle faster than a milder load? Yes. Are his components failing? Yes. Is his approach safe? No. Will his lax attitude get someone hurt one day? Yes. Why? Because he does not know WHY HIS LOAD IS SAFE!

This is the problem. People don't know what the fuck they're doing and then get stupid when someone tries to correct them. It's like the dum shit who throw a 15PSI blower on their Mustang and then lament the eventual fragmentation of their beloved motor. But it worked on my friends mustang! But it worked for a whe year! Nevermind that gasoline formulations change and it just so happens that day they sold a shitty batch.

The same goes for reloading components. Not all lots of brass are the same. Not all lots of primers are the same. Not all lots of bullets are the same. Not all lots of powder are the same. When you run at the edge of safety, sometimes you'll make a lethal cocktail.

I work with people who, as a group, walk the fine line of criminality and then complain the system fucked them over. I didn't do anything! I was just there! It's not fair! Well, it's their fault for going there. Just the same it's going to be the fault if the lax hand loader who chooses to exceed the max loads listed in the manual and it just so happens he has a shity mix of components. He should not go there. That 100 FPS isn't worth it.

 

[Deadshot2]

918v-

There a couple of basics the "roll your own" shooter needs to learn and then they can cut the ties to 'the books".

First, how to read pressure signs on a case and second, how to tell when your bolt handle lift is "tight".

Your own rifle is talking to you as you shoot it and if your too stupid to listen then no amount of book reading will help you.

Since most, if not all loads, that the average shooter will get the greatest accuracy out of are somewhere below published max loads (which are conservative to begin with) then they shouldn't be getting into the troubles you mention.

The ones that listen to the "range know-it-all" that comes over to critique your shooting and handloading "recipes" are the ones that often end up with cut bolt faces, stuck cases with seized bolts, even split barrels/actions.

Clark-

I never did understand why the term "Common Sense" is still in use. It's no longer as common as it once was, like back when I started reloading over 40 years ago.

 

[Clark]

There is the element of risk.
Companies have two distinct phases.
1) When the guy that started the company in his garage still runs it, and the growth is exponential, as he understands the technology and the biz and knows where to take chances.
2) The company is taken over by a "maintain market share and take no risks" ceo. There is no further growth.

Those that understand everything know where to take risks.
Those running on fear and ignorance are doing the best they can.

Some examples are:
Mountain climbers can scale Mt Everest, but old blind people need stairs that meet the building code.
Professionals can handle poisonous snakes and milk them, but drunk teen agers that try to pick them up by the tail get bitten.

Those that know more and can think better have fewer unknowns, and so for a given task, fewer risks.

 

[918v]

918v-

There a couple of basics the "roll your own" shooter needs to learn and then they can cut the ties to 'the books".

First, how to read pressure signs on a case and second, how to tell when your bolt handle lift is "tight".

I disagree.

A monkey can be taught to assemble a round of ammunition. But the monkey cannot be taught to extrapolate. You need to know more than just a few basics before attempting to deviate from the manual. Like Clark said, you should know what you're doing before taking risks.

Much of hand loading is determined by feel. The skill of reading the feel of something is not something you acquire along with a few basics.

 

[bigedp51]

Load data varies because the firearms and component used in testing vary. A load worked up in a universal receiver and a test barrel with minimum chamber and bore dimensions will give higher pressures. The chamber pressure measured on this test setup will give direct pressure readings from a transducer wired to a pressure gauge and give the most accurate pressure reading.

The other method used in manuals is a strain gauge glued to the barrel and then calibrated with a cartridge of a known chamber pressure. This is a close ballpark reading BUT it is not as accurate as a direct pressure reading using the transducer method.

What is also important to know what the H.P. White testing laboratories have to say about chamber pressure.

When you load "hot" you decrease the useful life of your cartridge cases, I have 30-30 cases that are over 30 years old and only die when the neck splits. This is because the chamber pressure of the 30-30 is 38,000 cup or 42,000 psi, at this pressure the case never stretches to meet the bolt face and the primers always protrude from the rear of the case.

The loads I posted with the Quickload charts are below the normal "rated" pressure of the .223/5.56 and used for practice. These lower pressure loads were selected for using mixed brass with varying internal capacity "AND" making the cartridge cases last "MUCH" longer.

Below is a scrap brass bucket that contains primarily factory loaded Federal cases that have oversized primer pockets after the first firing. Meaning these case were made from soft brass and were useless for reloading purposes.

Then we have someone here who tells us he hasn't used a reloading manual in 40 years and post photos of over stressed cartridge cases and has the audacity to tells us the percent the cases were overloaded. So be forewarned you can't test brass without knowing the hardness of the brass and the actual chamber pressure the brass began to flow.

Your car has a speedometer you are to use, you have a tire pressure gauge you should use, and you can "NOT" tell your speed by wetting your finger and holding it out the window or just looking at your tires and tell how much air pressure is in the tire.

Bottom line, taking bad advice from faceless screen names in forums can be hazardous to your health especially when these faceless screen names have egos bigger than their ability. YOUR face is resting next to the action of your rifle when it is fired and "YOUR" face will be rearranged if anything goes wrong. There is a reason why firearms are built with reserve strength and at least twice as strong as necessary. And there is a reason why the data varies in your loading manuals and "YOUR" firearms were "NOT" used in the manuals you are looking at.

In closing we have some Yo-yos in our forums who "THINK" they understand Einstein's theory of relativity, "BUT" fail to realize there was only "ONE" Einstein.

You will be much better off reading the front part of your reloading manuals with information from experts on reloading than listening to faceless screen names with egos much bigger than their ability. This includes the faceless screen name who can tell if someone has a match grade chamber by reading the dimensions of a fired case the OP posted in the forum.

Notice: No faceless screen names were hurt or injured during the filming of this posting, and Clark and 918v names were never mentioned.

 

[918v]

So why do you continue mentioning my name? Are you obsessed or something? Do you have a wall with 500 pictures of 918v internet posts in your bedroom? Stop trolling already.

 

[bigedp51]

So why do you continue mentioning my name? Are you obsessed or something? Do you have a wall with 500 pictures of 918v internet posts in your bedroom? Stop trolling already.

I'm not trolling 918v, but I can say this, you are not a firearms expert and you do not have the physic ability to make the statements you make in forums from hundreds if not thousands of miles away with material you do not have in your hands. This isn't trolling 918v because in my opinion you are full of shit with an ego bigger than your ability.

The same applies to Clark, because you don't test cartridge cases without having the proper test equipment to do the job correctly. And you do "NOT" teach people the wrong way to do something thinking you know more than the firearms industry.

I spent over half my life actually working on aircraft and the other half of my career as a quality control inspector. Below was the very first thing they taught us as inspectors about aircraft crashes and related failures.

97% of all errors are human errors and only 3% are are mechanical failures. Translated this means it is the stupidity and ignorance of the people working on the aircraft that caused the majority of the crashes.

And the hardest thing to deal with as an inspector is the egos and arrogance of the people who "THINK" they know what they are doing.

It isn't trolling 918v, it is the contempt I have for the statements made by you and Clark because you actually think you know what you are talking about and thinking you two know more than anyone else.

And I do not have 500 of your pictures on my wall 918v, I only have one picture of you and one of photo of Clark and I throw darts at them. And below both photos are the same..............

In school they taught us about primitive Pete and the damage they could do.

 

[918v]

It is trolling.

How am I full of shit? What did I say that was wrong? Be specific, you troll.

 

[bigedp51]

It is trolling.

How am I full of shit? What did I say that was wrong? Be specific, you troll.

I'm not your mother so go ask her what your major faults are, but judging from the PMs I'm getting you have the biggest brown eyes in the forum. So tone down your overbearing attitude and leave it on your side of the computer screen, its getting very old.

If your bored go help Clark ruin cartridge cases without using any test equipment.

This is my last comment in this post, I have to go fight with someone else who thinks my reloading bench and chair belong to her.

 

[918v]

See. You don't have shit. All you got is your big mouth, troll.

 

[bigedp51]

See. You don't have shit. All you got is your big mouth, troll.

OK it was my second to last posting and I told a little fib.............and you can't take criticism.

I'm sorry I couldn't find a cry baby with brown eyes..............

According to the diagram in the hornady manual Im about a thousandth smaller than those measurements. .469 at the case head, ,453-.454 at the shoulder and .342 at the neck. It is a bone stock Remington 700 5R with the 24" barrel with as of right now about 630 rounds down the tube.

You have a match chamber. That explains everything.

Mine runs .471", .456", .346".

And you asked for an example, and you actually think a bone stock Remington 700 has a match grade chamber without taking a chamber cast.

Did you notice the OP thanked me for the information I provided but used cold contempt in answering your comments. Leave your oversized ego at home on the other side of the computer screen, you are not physic, you do not work in a ballistic testing lab, you are not holding the firearm in your hands and your thousands of miles away from the problem.

Bottom line, try giving polite guesses in forums and come to the realization your shit does stink.

 

[11B1P]

After pawing through a few "handload manuals" years ago the information was in such a conflict I gave up. With the powder manufacturer's data readily available online I haven't consulted a manual for going on 15 years. I start with the published Min/Max for a given powder and bullet then work up a load for MY rifle...

...It's amazing how people consider loading manuals to be the absolute gospel.

I didn't read all the posts here, so this may have been said. Although I agree in principle, I'm new to reloading and have no one to personally teach me so, the manual is a nice crutch. I don't think of it as Gospel, I think the manuals give a good general recommendation, probably mostly for safety and measurements that will fit most guns. Once you're familiar, I think you're approach is sound. Just my 2 cts.

 

[918v]

OK it was my second to last posting and I told a little fib.............and you can't take criticism.

I'm sorry I couldn't find a cry baby with brown eyes..............







And you asked for an example, and you actually think a bone stock Remington 700 has a match grade chamber without taking a chamber cast.

Did you notice the OP thanked me for the information I provided but used cold contempt in answering your comments. Leave your oversized ego at home on the other side of the computer screen, you are not physic, you do not work in a ballistic testing lab, you are not holding the firearm in your hands and your thousands of miles away from the problem.

Bottom line, try giving polite guesses in forums and come to the realization your shit does stink.

He does have a match chamber. Even your own links indicate he has a match chamber. Remington 5r's aren't the same as regular production guns. And if you google that gun there are all sorts of people complaining about chamber issues.

This is the best you could find? And I'm not even wrong? You truly are special.

 

[bigedp51]

I didn't read all the posts here, so this may have been said. Although I agree in principle, I'm new to reloading and have no one to personally teach me so, the manual is a nice crutch. I don't think of it as Gospel, I think the manuals give a good general recommendation, probably mostly for safety and measurements that will fit most guns. Once you're familiar, I think you're approach is sound. Just my 2 cts.

11B1P

Every winter I sit down and reread some of my reloading manuals and replace the information I read in the past that leaked out of my ears over time and had become faded from memory.

Also nothing is written in stone, my bolt action .223 Savage has a longer throat than my two AR15 rifles do. Todays chambers must be large enough to fit the cartridge and the company lawyers in.

Look at the link below and the first chamber listed and the amount of freebore and that it was designed by a C. Hildebrandt at Savage.

NJ HiPower - Cartridge Tech Specs

What this means is the loading data for a standard SAAMI .223 shorter throat does not apply and if I wanted I could load the rifle a little hotter. The SAAMI interchangeability warning for the .223/5.56 did not come out until 1979 when the military adopted the M855 cartridge and lengthened the throat on the M16 rifle. And this has a great deal to do with changes made to current .223/5.56 rifles made today and why older data doesn't apply.

Look at the same link again and all the .223/5.56 chamber and throats listed and you will see why load data varies so much.

Now look at the information below and ask yourself if one person going over pressure on one brand of case can make a intelligent comment about cartridge case expansion in the base of the case.

Load data varies because our firearms and components used in reloading vary and nothing is written in stone.

Our reloading manuals also tell you to start low and work up because the person who wrote it has years of experience on the subject and the test equipment to backup their data.

BUT also remember this, right now at castboolits.com there is someone with the screen name of mutigunner handing out information. The problem with this is mutigunner does not cast bullets nor does he have a reloading press. (mutigunner is a few bricks shy of a full load)

Meaning when reading anything in a forum remember the words at the beginning of the X-Files.........

And remember to keep reading proven trusted material in books and manuals because..............

 

[11B1P]

11B1P

Load data varies because our firearms and components used in reloading vary and nothing is written in stone.

Point taken. I had to laugh at the x-files quotes! I agree with you, my point is that it's about experience and perspective. If you have neither they're not a bad place to to start. Really good post, I appreciate it. Nice to see some actual data on cases instead of just marketing... With respect to their fail rates, were they all shot with the exact same load, bullet and rifle?

 

[bigedp51]

Point taken. I had to laugh at the x-files quotes! I agree with you, my point is that it's about experience and perspective. If you have neither they're not a bad place to to start. Really good post, I appreciate it. Nice to see some actual data on cases instead of just marketing... With respect to their fail rates, were they all shot with the exact same load, bullet and rifle?

The test was done with a brand new Savage rifle, BUT the major problem with the information was the actual headspace of the rifle was not given. And the total amount of shoulder bump was also not given, so the test falls into the same category as Clarks tests on destroying perfectly good brass without knowing the chamber pressure and the actual hardness of the brass.

I'm glad you thought the posting was funny, if you had replied with unkind words I would have had to report to the forum you had been abducted by little grey aliens who totally removed your funny bone and a large part of your cerebral cortex for study.

You also have no idea how hard it is typing this posting with two dyslexic fingers and having someone who thinks they own the place getting in the way. I tried to scratch her ear and she swatted my hand and said get lost I'm trying to sleep. This means I've got oversized egos on both sides of the computer screen. Her paw is still cocked and locked and she wants the lights turned off so I have to go.

 

[para72]

Thanks for everyone's input.1st test went well, started at 53.0 and went to 57.5 in1/2 grain increments.I dont have a cronograf so no velocity's.I started seeing pressure signs at 57.0 so I stopped their. Its my first time doing an OCW test so im trying to make sense of it all.Here is a pic of the test. 53.0 looks good for the low. High. ...not sure?

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[Deadshot2]

At first glance I'd pick that load at 53.5 gr and work around it. It's essentially two mini groups of two that could indicate that the spread was shooter induced.


Another group I'd explore is the 55 gr. When I see OCW results like this I'll load 5 rounds of each, starting .2 gr below and ending .2 gr above (total 15 rounds including the charge used in the original OCW test). Pay close attention to case prep, especially seating force. Hopefully the "feel" when seating the bullets is as even as possible so you're testing with even neck tensions.

Re-shoot the OCW, and again, I'd try those two test loads to center my second test on. If you find a charge weight from the second test that is nice and snug, then start playing with seating depth. Start with the same depth you used for the test and shoot some more groups, increasing the OAL by .005" until you reach the max length you want to (or can) use. If you make only minor changes in seating depth, no adjustment of charge weight will be necessary but if you're going for ultimate accuracy then repeat the process used in step two where you vary charge weights by .2 gr more or less than the one that performed well in the previous test.

 

[para72]

Deadshot2


I am new to the rifle game. I'm a pistol shooter at heart. My bdl's trigger is heavy, I would guess 8 lbs or so. I don't doubt that a few if not all strays where my fault. I've been practicing my breathing and trigger control. As far as case prep, everything is the same length and OAL is max for my box mag. I'll load up what you suggested and give that a try. Thank you for your input!

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[Deadshot2]

Deadshot2


I am new to the rifle game. I'm a pistol shooter at heart. My bdl's trigger is heavy, I would guess 8 lbs or so. I don't doubt that a few if not all strays where my fault. I've been practicing my breathing and trigger control. As far as case prep, everything is the same length and OAL is max for my box mag. I'll load up what you suggested and give that a try. Thank you for your input!

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Do yourself a favor and replace the factory trigger assy with a Timney. The best $125 you can spend on a stock Remington. They usually come with a pull weight of 3# but can be adjusted down to around 1.5#. The lighter pull and more even release will also improve the groups. There are other trriggers available but the Timney is super reliable under a wider range of uses than some of the more "Competition Oriented" ones.