Confused...

[HathcockProtege]

Missed a "gimme" shot (110 yards. calm) at a woodchuck a few days ago using the Aguila 60g subsonic. Went to the range later to check my zero and got a nasty surprise.

9/10 shots @ 50 yards keyholed and group size tripled. This ammo had shot several acceptable (1.25-1.5") groups at 100 yards and showed no signs of key-holing.

So, my question is..why?
Why would it shoot well one day and then completely fail a few days later? Increased barrel fouling?

As it is, it looks like I'm going to be switching to Velocitors for my hunting load.

Still a little sad that the big, smelly ammo doesn't seem to won't work for me...I liked the way it killed stuff.

-The Kid.

 

[cmh2007]

Re: Confused...

your twist rate...a 1:9 is suggested for those rounds...if you have a lesser rate, and the barrel is dirty then that could be your problem. also the smell of the aguila is due to their priming system...smells just like eley...i have even been told it is under contract

 

[mscott]

Re: Confused...

Temperature change?

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: Confused...

Seaggie: So, a slower than ideal twist rate (1:16) could stabilize the heavy 60g's when the barrel is clean, but not once it's dirty? Could be. Interesting thought. Thanks.

mscott: temperature was about 15 degrees warmer when the miss and then key-holing session occurred. Maybe the slow twist rate will only stabilize the 60g's under ideal conditions; clean barrel and right temp. It's a theory at least.

Due to the fact I cannot find the Aguilas anywhere locally, a switch to the CCI Velocitors might make sense regardless...providing the Velocitors give acceptable hunting accuracy. Would be nice to have the flatter trajectory for 150+ anyway.

 

[ms6852]

Re: Confused...

Try the Fiocchi 38 gr high velocity round instead. I have been able to consistantly hit 5 clay targets at 200 yds using a 10/22 ruger with a hogue stock and a tac-sol barrel. Should be no problem to make contact with a woodchuck at 110 yds.

 

[Spazz.]

Re: Confused...

Also try Remington Subsonic 40gr hollow points. They will stabilize in a 1:16 twist, and you have more reliability at longer ranges because they won't be making the transition from supersonic to subsonic and subsequently destabilizing mid-flight.

In my completely amateur opinion, it sounds like you had ideal conditions for getting those 60gr to stabilize out of a 1:16. I would think that air temperature or humidity would have more to do with it than barrel fouling. When it's warmer, the sonic barrier is higher. When it's cooler, the sonic barrier is lower. At 68°, the sound barrier is about 1,125 fps. At 50°, the sound barrier is about 1,100 fps. I think those 60gr run at 950 fps, versus a 40gr Rem Subsonic at around 1050 fps. What all that means, I have no idea. But given the info, someone else on here may be able to make sense of why it's fine one day and not the next.

 

[onechance]

Re: Confused...

I was using the same ammo and had the same problem. It took forever to remove the lead fouling from the barrel. I think the heavy bullet fouls the barrel faster than the lighter 40 gr. bullets.

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: Confused...

Thanks guys. The rifle is only a couple months and <500 shots old, so I'm def still in the process of finding out what she likes.

I do know she seems to hate the Remmy 38g subs, so I'll give the others a try when I get a chance. I've had great luck with CCI target 40gs recently, but really not thrilled about using them for "long" range hunting for the reasons that DFOOSKING mentioned.

Going to be headed to Nebraska in a couple months, hopefully get some extensive field testing in at the local p-dog town.

Happy hunting.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Confused...

IMHO, the problem has its origin in trying to do one thing with a round that's probably designed to do a different thing. I have serious confusion trying to figure out what the 60gr Aguila is really intended to do. Most of the time, when I hear something about it, the main gist is about how it has problems doing it.

.22LR hunting is best done with HV Hollowpoints, which are intended for such tasks. If one steps outside the box, it is reasonable to prepare for the unexpected.

Greg

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: Confused...

Well, a 60g subsonic means low noise, high energy retention and penetration, the sub-sonic accuracy benefit of never going transonic, as well as being affected noticeably less by wind at longer ranges. In my experience, it seemed to do all of this admirably...but with the curse of being hard to stabilize coming as a part of the package.

Plus, Aguilla probably likes to have "bragging rights" for having the heaviest chunk of lead in a .22 LR load.

My reservations about hunting with high-velocity HP's are that I will likely give up some accuracy (but with a flatter trajectory) esp after the round goes transonic, they will likely be more susceptible to wind drift, they are louder, and I don't know if they will kill as well/hit as hard at longer (75+ yards) ranges due to the lighter bullet.

Hoping for some trigger time this afternoon after class, guess we'll see how the Velocitors behave.

I have been very happy with my CCI target loads for squirrels at 80-100 yards, but I'm not thrilled about shooting that range for chucks with a 40 grain subsonic round nose.

Greg, as "resident elder fart", what's your take on fast and light vs. slow and heavy in a 100+ yard.22 LR scenario?

Later,
-The Kid.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Confused...

At 100yd I like The HV Hollowpoint for small game. Personally i don't think the .22LR is energetic enough in any loading for hunting small game much beyond 100yd. I still don't think the 60gr has a real use, except maybe for suppressed shooting.

I prefer Std. Vel. RN loads for any target applications. My 'go to load' for target is CCI.

Greg

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: Confused...

Thanks for the input, Greg. I don't agree, but that's ok.

I'm liking the CCI target 40g's as well out of my Savage MK II-FV. Have you tried sorting my rim thickness? Guy at the local gun shop claims that Green Tag are just SV targets rim gauged and sorted. Maybe worth a try anyways.

Shot the CCI Velocitors yesterday afternoon. Despite the crappy performance of the BSA scope (in market for replacement as soon as I have some cash freed up), it was a constructive session. Learning the rifle a little better and learning more about wind doping in real situation.

Average of 3 groups was 5/8ths @ 50, only 100 yard group was 1.25", and only 150 yard group was 2.75". Pretty blustery day, so not too bad for shooting off the bipod, methinks. Def acceptable for my hunting applications.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Confused...

No, I haven't, but I'm looking to get hold of a .243 Win Case, and trying a rim thickness check.

 

[bohem]

Re: Confused...

The 243 cases I have made by WIN average 0.0455" across 5 cases, hope that helps, Greg.