Considering an EDM Windrunner, What's the Down and Dirty?

[Triggered]

Have always had a fascination with the Windrunner, but coughing up that much money in the past was a bad joke at best. Things change and now long range is my primary hobby and the big sticker prices are becoming less of a shock for me now [when you get the results you pay for].

I realize Bill passed away this last winter, and this has perhaps spurred my interest a bit in grabbing one. But seeing that Bill is no longer with us and his son has no interest in carrying on this rifle (is my understanding), this is also a source of concern in my mind.

No Bill = no EDM for servicing, upgrades, consultation, etc.

There's a 408 I am looking at (also has a 50 BMG barrel and bolt) with the standard EDM Arms lightening mark, and Hurricane UT location on the receiver for what I consider to be a reasonable price. Anything I should be looking out for? I know to steer clear of the Cheytac rifles and that whole fiasco.

Smart to grab one? Bad idea now that Bill has passed? Should consider something else or another manufacturer that has Bill's take down style of rifle?

I usually hang out in the Vintage section, so the ELR threads and regulars are not a strong point or connection I have.

Thanks guys, open to all recommendations and opinions, good or bad.

 

[fdkay]

This from the EDM website:

Bill Ritchie sole owner of EDM ARMS
passed away November 5, 2016
There are no assets
EDM ARMS 1996-2016

If you were buying it as a collectors piece, sure, but to buy one for use, personally, I say no.
if you are set on something that can change calibers etc... then I might suggest the Desert Tech.
The CDX Shadow might interest you, but that is stupid money.

 

[TripleBull]

The CDX Shadow might interest you, but that is stupid money.

I'll take 2, becuz, ya know...

 

[Leland22]

I have no first hand experience,but check out this link,from the other Hide...I would steer clear if you are looking at the same..

http://www.theinsidershoops.scout.c...esis-arms-vanquish-edm-mini-windrunner-rifles

 

[SnkBit]

I bought one about two months before Bill Ritchie passed away. While I am a little concerned about support at this point I know that someone will eventually step up and work on them. It's sad that his son has no interest in perpetuating something his father was obviously very passionate about.

 

[schmi015]

I'd avoid it. I had a barrett m99 which was a good solid .50, sold it, went to the edm windrunner in .50 bmg and while it was nice cause of how it broke down for transport, the whole barrel nut always left me worried about head-spacing. At best it shot 1 moa with 750 amax's. I didn't shoot my m99 with amax's so i cant speak to its accuracy, as i was slinging ball ammo at 1000yds into rocks. My recommendation if you're looking for a ELR . 50 class system I would checkout the desert tech HTI in .375, Armalite ar-50, or the steyr 50.

 

[Triggered]

Thank you to those who have voiced their opinions, especially Leland as I had not discovered that report on the forum yet. Very informative.

Although those are the "Minis" in .308, it is no secret that Bill went through a number of partnerships and licensing right deals based on his design. Whether it be
Cheytac, THOR, Nemesis, etc etc. there are numerous models out there and it is no surprise that some of them are cruder than others.

Unfortunately, I will be away for the next several weeks, but I did decide to go forward with an original EDM in .408 that I was looking at. The price was almost criminal with everything included. My mental plan is to get the rifle, maybe find some Cheytac and try it out, otherwise keep some of the spare parts and silencers for 50 cal, but sell it to fund a proper M96 - or cash out. Something like that.

I was actually able to get ahold of Keary Ritchie, Bill's son, and he stated that he would be able service and support (to a degree) his fathers Windrunners in the near future. He said he would update his website to reflect this in a few months.
So for anyone worried about parts and service, the future does appear more promising.

Regardless, it's still an unusual feeling to see a man's entire life work simply disappear overnight with no one to fill the void in a way.

 

[Cartman]

I spent an afternoon with Bill in his shop when he was in SoCal. He really struck me as a class act. Not knowing any details from the ensuing years, or anything beyond a few hours getting a tour and talking shop, my guess would be he was a better gun maker than businessman. But that is pure, unadulterated, wild speculation on my part.

If anyone comes across another original EDM mag fed Windrunner in a .408 Cheytac for this kind of deal: "The price was almost criminal with everything included". Please drop me a line and let me know.

 

[Leland22]

Best of luck with your chase. Hope you get what you are looking for! Have a great 4th.

 

[W54/XM-388]

If you are getting the .408 model, there are a couple important points to mention.
The original bronzish solid projectiles were too hard and would tend to destroy the barrels in less than 100 rounds.
If it's a used rifle, make sure you tell the seller that as a condition of purchase, if it doesn't group well, you want a full refund unless he has a new barrel to go with it.
You can tell pretty quickly, as you will find that the rifle won't group at all and you can hardly hit a man sized target at 100 yards.

DON'T use any of the older ammo for it that has a bronze coloured look to the projectiles, just pull them apart and re-use the brass.
For accuracy testing try starting out with standard FMJ bullets and a midrange load.

Getting a new barrel at this stage, could be a bit of work, so that's why I'd be careful about it.

I hope Bill's son eventually starts doing parts & support, I could use a few more magazines.

The .408 is a round with great promise that was pretty much destroyed by everybody doing practically everything wrong with it & of course Cheytac (we'll let's not go there right now....)
One of the biggest issues was people driving projectiles that were much to hard and slightly oversized, with way too much pressure and just making a monkey out of everything. That and barrels that were not matched to the given projectiles.

 

[Triggered]

Thanks for the heads up W54/ XM338, is there a source that you would recommend for commercial 408 rounds?

Staying away from the historic Cheytac fiasco was the main reason I wanted to go with the 50 BMG. I'd be interested in the 375 possibly if a barrel could get made up for it. I think there's nothing wrong with the 408 & 375 and they're great rounds, but as mentioned, a lot of people did their best to ruin the potential it had at the gate. Here we are much later and the rounds just don't have the availability and market presence I'd personally prefer compared to the 50.

 

[Kingair001]

I almost bought a Windrunner a few months ago
That one had the 338 Lapua, 375 CheyTac and 50 BMG barrels and bolts
And had all the updates - check these when you get one !
So a real nice package

But please do know that I am sort of a Windrunner 'rookie' - others here on SH will know way more than me !

There are a few people who can make you a barrel for a Windrunner - as far as I know 3
Prices I received where $ 1,750.00 to $ 2,500.00 per barrel
And probably a year to get them finished . . .

Than I called Keary Ritchie to see if he could help
His prices where even higher and probably he had a bad day since it was not exactly the most friendly 'custom service' I ever had . . . lol
Actually his way of handling made me looking for an alternative
In the long run the conversation with Keary made me decide to skip on the Windrunner
Would Bill still be around I probably owned one !
Apparently he was a real nice guy / gentleman and honestly I really would love to met him when he was still out here in SoCal
Finally in those days he was about an hour away from my place

So I went another route and purchased a Desert Tech HTI

3 other problems you need to take in consideration when buying a Windrunner :
1. Changing the barrels makes that the POI changes constantly - some say it is not the case although I hear it frequently from other owners
2. There are not that many bullets for the 408 compared to a 375 CheyTac . . .
3. 50 cal is not the most precise round to shoot long distance - long long distance I mean - and I would love to see a lathe made round for it - than I will change my mind for sure !

Starting in ELR I can't afford having these problem additionally on board . . . it will be tough enough already . . .

Just check the Ko2M and that shows clearly what I am talking about !

But nevertheless . . . I you like a Windrunner . . . go for it !
There are a few nice ones on the market at a 'normal' market price
Although I have seen 20K as well . . .

 

[dhiza]

Who is making barrels? interested in .375 and maybe 338LM.

 

[Long_Action]

I bought a windrunner about 10 years ago. Great gun, and Bill was a great guy. I hope his son will service and sell parts for the guns once the dust settles.

 

[6AYoteHunter]

Lots of guys locally didn't even buy his rifles for extreme long range. Just too much cost vs the benefits. The guys who did buy them loved the looks and have an awesome show piece. Comes down to looks vs true cost per round down range.

Personally I would consider a 375 since you will have great range and lots of projectile offerings. Berger is still doing R&D I believe, but if they offer bullets it will help with costs in the ELR market.
David Tubbs caliber choice in the King of the 2 mile was very interesting and suspect more interest in going this route.

 

[Triggered]

Big ol' piece of metal came in today. Could bust some skulls just swinging the receiver around.

Debating if I want to go through the hassle of actually shooting the thing mostly finding some 408 and then driving a while to get some decent range.

May just throw it up for sale and shop around for a proper M96 versus the M98.

Definitely a sweet ass gun though.

 

[Jimmym40a2]

I have had a wind runner and I would suggest getting a single action gun in 375 cheytac or something similar if your in the long range game. You will find more consistency and lower cost. (Now that bill is gone (great guy) you dont have the support for it also.

 

[Kingair001]

Now that bill is gone (great guy) you dont have the support for it also.

Guess people are really gonna miss that part !

 

[ELR researcher]

Notwithstanding that EDM died on November 5, 2016, the EDM website is now showing, "Vigilance Rifles now servicing EDM Arms rifles. For service, parts, upgrades visit www.vigilancerifles.com". FYI, Vigilance is owned and run by Bill Ritchie's son, Keary. See http://www.vigilancerifles.com/edmarmsservice.html

 

[Kingair001]

Only thing you need to check is the POI after swapping a barrel on a Windrunner

And than you're good to go !

Now Keary quoted me over $ 3,000.00 for a barrel beginning of this year . . . .

Than you might be better of buying a second Windrunner . . .

Just my .02

 

[Triggered]

Have had the rifle for about 2.5 weeks now.

Has been sitting in the case the entire time. Actually just made new foam insert for it to fit both the barrels in a single case yesterday. It is HEAVY, at least 50 pounds I reckon - but frees up a second case.

Keary offered to build me an entirely new 50 Windrunner for $8000 when I spoke to him on the phone.

I was so keen on the one I purchased since it had a new 50 barrel and bolt that I figured I could sell the 408 rifle and grab a 50, have the spares and be in it all for about the same price that I originally paid.

It's a neat rifle, but I have some major buyer's remorse on this deal. Have some bills that are overdue and thinking about a new vehicle right now. The money would be nice.

Just looking to sell the rifle now I think. Too big and too expensive for me to shoot at my current income level.

 

[Kingair001]

Just looking to sell the rifle now I think. Too big and too expensive for me to shoot at my current income level.

Actually wondering why you actually bought the rifle ?
Looks like an impulsive purchase if you ask me . . .
No clue what you paid - and not my business - but guess that a Windrunner is a not that easy to move rifle . . .
But nevertheless I hope you get your money back - or even make a few bucks extra !

Keary quoted me close to $ 3,500.00 for the barrel plus shipping and the usual 2 weeks / 9 months . . .
That would be the most expensive barrel for a rifle I guess . . . in the world . . .
I don't mind spending money but all has it's limits
So that really changed my enthusiasm in the Windrunner to sub zero (actually more due to the attitude that Keary had during our phone conversation ! )
These 2 'facts' together with the POI change . . . no Windrunner for me . . .
Well never say never since it is a good looking rifle !

But as mentioned in my previous post - would Bill been still around - I owned one right now for sure !

I was yesterday in a store and they has a 50 cal Windrunner M96 for sale
All was there including a Hollywood press (mint - never seen one as beautiful as this one) , set of 3 dies, Giraud trimmer, tons of new brass and A-Max bullet, loaded rounds, powder, primers, etc . . . . just all you need to reload and have fun !
Rifle was in mint condition
Price is / was $ 8,500.00 negotiable

 

[Triggered]

Looks like an impulsive purchase if you ask me . . .

Keary quoted me close to $ 3,500.00 for the barrel plus shipping and the usual 2 weeks / 9 months . . .
That would be the most expensive barrel for a rifle I guess . . . in the world . . .
I don't mind spending money but all has it's limits
So that really changed my enthusiasm in the Windrunner to sub zero (actually more due to the attitude that Keary had during our phone conversation ! )

Bingo and bingo

Like I said, had some cognitive glaze over when purchasing the rifle.

Figured I would be happy with the rifle, but a month later when returning stateside and receiving the rifle, I had already made my mind up. If it was a standard 50 and not the 408, would keep it more than likely.

Seems like reasonable money for what the kit was, but with no Bill these days, I think the Windrunner is going the way of the dodo unless a 3rd party picks it up.

 

[Long_Action]

Since Bill is gone, it looks like Cheytac is taking advantage.

https://cheytac.com/product/m200-intervention/

 

[Kingair001]

Since Bill is gone, it looks like Cheytac is taking advantage.

https://cheytac.com/product/m200-intervention/

Don't know what the story is behind the CheyTac M200

There are a few posts regarding this 'copying' of the Windrunner into a M200 on several forum

Probably CheyTac doesn't like to read them

How did they got the design or approval to 'copy' the Windrunner . . . no clue . . . ?

Bill only passed away last year and CheyTac was already selling the M200 back in 2001 . . . so . . . ?

 

[schmi015]

The Cheytac was at one point a licensed copy or something to that effect, at some point their business deal went south. Cheytac, probably doesn't know or care considering they have been bought or sold a couple times and may only exist in name only from what they originally were. There used to be a lot more history that you could read about online. As i said in my post above on 1july I'd avoid edm, i'm adding that i'd avoid cheytac too. If you're looking for a big bore system look at Armalite, Barrett, Steyr, or Desert tech.

 

[Kingair001]

I really was thinking to get an EDM Windrunner . . . for many many months . . . went thorough all I could find on Internet . . . even called Tom !

But how many people shoot it out to 2 miles . . . now that is not exactly the 'range' most of us have available but having my mind set on ELR competition . . .

My intention was to shoot the match in Tonopah NV but unfortunately it was cancelled yesterday

This leaves the West TX ELR match (7 & 8 October 2017) over for this year but gonna skip that one since it is over 1000 miles and 16 hours driving one way for me . . .

Are there any shooters using a Windrunner in the ELR competition . . . no idea

So after considering all + / - I went for a Desert Tech HTI

Did I made a good decision . . . in my case . . . yes !

Do I regret not buying a Windrunner . . . for sure !

But never say never and time will tell if I ever get one . . .

 

[Rem7]

I really was thinking to get an EDM Windrunner . . . for many many months . . . went thorough all I could find on Internet . . . even called Tom !

But how many people shoot it out to 2 miles . . . now that is not exactly the 'range' most of us have available but having my mind set on ELR competition . . .

My intention was to shoot the match in Tonopah NV but unfortunately it was cancelled yesterday

This leaves the West TX ELR match (7 & 8 October 2017) over for this year but gonna skip that one since it is over 1000 miles and 16 hours driving one way for me . . .

Are there any shooters using a Windrunner in the ELR competition . . . no idea

So after considering all + / - I went for a Desert Tech HTI

Did I made a good decision . . . in my case . . . yes !

Do I regret not buying a Windrunner . . . for sure !

But never say never and time will tell if I ever get one . . .

 

[Rem7]

If anyone is thinking about a barrel conversion I would call K&P barrels. I believe they made the original barrels for EDM Arms.