Gunsmithing Converting Military Mauser to .375H&H?

[Son of Dorn]

Tried looking for this and haven't found much. Is it possible to convert a military Mauser action (Gewehr 98 or Argentine 1909) to .375 H&H, and what would be involved? Just milling out part of the receiver's side for the longer cartridge and keeping enough metal for the lugs to keep a strong lock? If it's not possible (or recommended), that's no problem since I have a couple of backup calibres in mind that'll do the trick.

Thanks,
Son of Dorn

 

[Wannashootit]

Kuhnhausen recommends keeping cartridge conversions to no longer that that of the OAL of the .30-06.

Accommodating the length of the .300 H&H magnum requires removal of enough steel in the feed ramp to significantly weaken the area behind the bottom receiver lug. Magnums such as this require more, not less steel in that critical area.

 

[wadebrown]

the mods would also have to length the magazine cutout, be careful how much metal you remove. I would look at a 375 Ruger which would not require any lengthening and would deliver the same ballistics. I would pick up an Interarms Mark X or current Zastava in 375 H&H, they are essentially the same gun with different levels of finish. I like the Interarms second only to the Sears Model 50 as the base for hunting guns. FN made the sears Model 50 and it is a commercial 98 action. If you are paying someone to do the work it would probably be cheaper to buy a commercial one that came out as a 375 H&H.

I like the 375 Ruger and use it to great affect on bears.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Kuhnhausen recommends keeping cartridge conversions to no longer that that of the OAL of the .30-06.

Accommodating the length of the .300 H&H magnum requires removal of enough steel in the feed ramp to significantly weaken the area behind the bottom receiver lug. Magnums such as this require more, not less steel in that critical area.

the mods would also have to length the magazine cutout, be careful how much metal you remove. I would look at a 375 Ruger which would not require any lengthening and would deliver the same ballistics. I would pick up an Interarms Mark X or current Zastava in 375 H&H, they are essentially the same gun with different levels of finish. I like the Interarms second only to the Sears Model 50 as the base for hunting guns. FN made the sears Model 50 and it is a commercial 98 action. If you are paying someone to do the work it would probably be cheaper to buy a commercial one that came out as a 375 H&H.

I like the 375 Ruger and use it to great affect on bears.

Yeah, my chief concern was taking too much metal out of the action, so I figured it would be a no-go. I'm sure that someone somewhere has managed to do it successfully but that's why I added the "or recommended" part. I'd much prefer not to weaken or remove anything that should stay strong on any gun.

My backup calibre was 9.3x62 Mauser, if I wanna stick with an original military Mauser (and I think I do, since I'm interested in making a vintage-style big game gun), which I understand can give me comparable stats to the .375H&H and still fit without trouble in the standard action; wouldn't need any bolt modification either, unless I'm mistaken. Doesn't quite have the same allure as a classic belted magnum but there's enough history and use behind the cartridge that I wouldn't feel bad about not going with an H&H. I'll give the Interarms and/or Zastava a look, but I think I'll end up saving the magnum for another rifle, either a .300 Pre-64 Winchester 70 build I have in mind or a modified P14/M1917 Enfield since I've heard of several of those in .375.

 

[RTH1800]

It has been done. Also .416 Rigby.
Shortly after WW11 the British gunmakers made up a few on standard actions.
It’s generally considered a poor idea.
There are so many great long actions today it’s seldom considered.

 

[Son of Dorn]

It has been done. Also .416 Rigby.
Shortly after WW11 the British gunmakers made up a few on standard actions.
It’s generally considered a poor idea.
There are so many great long actions today it’s seldom considered.

You mean on the military Mausers? I figured as much. But I'm not really after a modern long-action build here, so I was giving it some thought. That's okay, though, 'cause 9.3x62mm oughta do just fine!

 

[RTH1800]

I don’t recall makers of the actions. They were standard size actions. No difference would be noted in military or commercial actions related to opening up a std to mag.
I also remember Griffin and Howe made up a .416 Rigby on a standard Win Mod 70 action.
They said it was a bad plan and would not be repeated.

 

[Son of Dorn]

I don’t recall makers of the actions. They were standard size actions. No difference would be noted in military or commercial actions related to opening up a std to mag.
I also remember Griffin and Howe made up a .416 Rigby on a standard Win Mod 70 action.
They said it was a bad plan and would not be repeated.

Understood. I meant as opposed to the H&H Mag-converted P14/M1917 Enfields. Those seem to be both doable and fairly popular, so could be a fun project for a British-inspired counterpart to what's becoming a heavily German-inspired Mauser build.

 

[RTH1800]

The Enfield had other issues. Plenty large though.

 

[Son of Dorn]

The Enfield had other issues. Plenty large though.

Yes? Aside from the heavier weight and longer (especially with a big damn bayonet like they used at the time) length vs the Springfield and Lee-Enfield, I don't recall much about any issues with the Enfield models. Some ejectors tended to fail at least on the M1917s, but a replacement was developed that fixed that one. Would you mind educating me a little on some of these issues for future reference? Can use a PM if you'd like.

 

[RTH1800]

Extraction.
Dog leg bolt handle
Rear sight ears
Cock on closing
Stepped magazine box
Ugly
Mostly just a lot of work to finish up a rifle stat is still inferior to a Mauser.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Extraction might be an issue, but also might not. Can't know until you try it.
Dogleg handle doesn't bother me any and I don't plan on changing it.
Plenty of existing examples with the "ears" already ground off and no particular reason to worry about them if I don't scope it.
Cock on closing doesn't bother me.
Stepped magazine box doesn't bother me.
Ugly is a matter of opinion and not relevant to the question.
If people didn't do things because a lot of work was involved, we'd never have gotten past the Paleolithic! I'm not daunted by the prospect, only intrigued by what could be accomplished.

 

[RTH1800]

Ok,
I am not here to argue with you. Drive on.

 

[wadebrown]

I like your 9.3x62 route, I boxed up a Sears Model 50 in 30-06 that I will send out to be rebored to 9.3x62 and barrel shortened to 20", a good option for $250. I thought about bringing up the 9.3x62 but did not want to derail your original discussion. When back I will have a 3-position swing safety installed, and it should be set for spring bear hunting in 2020. I don't think the bears will know the difference between bullets from the 375 Ruger or 9.3x62, dead is dead, right.

I think Mauser 98 actions make a great platform for building hunting guns unless you want a magnum that is too fat or too long, or you want a long range hunter. Yes, there are lighter, more accurate, ... actions, features like controlled round feeding, very positive extraction, safeties that lock the bolt not the trigger. One drawback to the Mauser route in 9.3x62 is that Hammer bullets does not make 9.3mm bullets and I really like what their bullets do on game, I will look at the other mono metal bullets.

These are my opinions and like mileage may and probably do differ from yours.

 

[Son of Dorn]

I like your 9.3x62 route, I boxed up a Sears Model 50 in 30-06 that I will send out to be rebored to 9.3x62 and barrel shortened to 20", a good option for $250. I thought about bringing up the 9.3x62 but did not want to derail your original discussion. When back I will have a 3-position swing safety installed, and it should be set for spring bear hunting in 2020. I don't think the bears will know the difference between bullets from the 375 Ruger or 9.3x62, dead is dead, right.

I think Mauser 98 actions make a great platform for building hunting guns unless you want a magnum that is too fat or too long, or you want a long range hunter. Yes, there are lighter, more accurate, ... actions, features like controlled round feeding, very positive extraction, safeties that lock the bolt not the trigger. One drawback to the Mauser route in 9.3x62 is that Hammer bullets does not make 9.3mm bullets and I really like what their bullets do on game, I will look at the other mono metal bullets.

These are my opinions and like mileage may and probably do differ from yours.

No problem. If you'd brought up the 9.3, I'd have fully agreed; just wanted to get a little feedback if my original route was a no-go. Yeah, the Mauser might not be the lightest or newest action around, nor the most accurate, and with all the features these days you could go mad fretting over them, but I figure it's been in continuous use in the sporting world for over a century for a reason and it'll do just fine for me.

 

[RTH1800]

It also lost every conflict it was involved in unless both combatants utilized it. ?

I actually like Mauser actions and have several hunting rifles built around them.
Kurtz, Standard, Intermediate and Magnum.
All are fine.

 

[Son of Dorn]

It also lost every conflict it was involved in unless both combatants utilized it. ?

I actually like Mauser actions and have several hunting rifles built around them.
Kurtz, Standard, Intermediate and Magnum.
All are fine.

Well I'm not sure if the Arab forces used it during the Six-Day War but on the other hand, one conflict out of many does not an inspiring service history make. But yeah, the Mauser Gew 98 action itself is a fine one and I think that with the right calibre and knowledge of its limitations, there's no reason why it can't perform perfectly well.

 

[RTH1800]

If you are really interested you could locate a pre war Stogers catalog. Mauser list over 20 actions for specific cartridges. It will give you an idea what to work with. When all said and done it will be far better to just buy what you want. Will save you 80%.

 

[Dan M]

Look for a BRNO ZKK 602...and done

 

[Son of Dorn]

Look for a BRNO ZKK 602...and done

Thanks for the suggestion but that's just not the way I wanna go.

 

[RTH1800]

I once thought fireworks were mans most wasteful use of money. Then I built Mauser rifles. Go ahead, fun to watch. ?

 

[Dan M]

Thanks for the suggestion but that's just not the way I wanna go.

Have you actually priced out a full custom Mauser rifle? I used to live around the corner from an old Griffin & Howe gunsmith, George Beitzinger. That man was a master...and he had absolutely beautiful custom Mauser rifles in the sales rack in addition to customer builds in various stages of completion. 20 years ago they were in the $6000 range. Just saying, go into this with open eyes...it will be an expensive proposition. Do it right or you are throwing money away. I once thought as you do, then after hard experience simply purchased what i really wanted rather than reverse engineering it. It was FAR less expensive proposition that way.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Have you actually priced out a full custom Mauser rifle? I used to live around the corner from an old Griffin & Howe gunsmith, George Beitzinger. That man was a master...and he had absolutely beautiful custom Mauser rifles in the sales rack in addition to customer builds in various stages of completion. 20 years ago they were in the $6000 range. Just saying, go into this with open eyes...it will be an expensive proposition. Do it right or you are throwing money away. I once thought as you do, then after hard experience simply purchased what i really wanted rather than reverse engineering it. It was FAR less expensive proposition that way.

If I can find what I want, then I have no issue simply purchasing it. I always look for that route first. But if I can't do that, I look for alternatives. And, I will also add, the H&H Magnum question is now off the table. I simply would, after reconsideration, prefer a different cartridge more in keeping with the Mauser action's history. If I can find one in 9.3mm, I will be happy. If I have to convert and build it up, I will do so and maybe I'll be less happy for it but that's a penalty I'm willing to take for a gun that's what I want. I am more than aware that it could turn massively expensive; that is always foremost on my mind. I do also really appreciate your suggestion about the Brno, I just meant that a Gew98-type Mauser action in the H&H calibre is no longer my focus.

 

[Dan M]

Any caliber custom Mauser rifle is going to be expensive. Unless you have a bona fide need for an esoteric chambering, you might be better off with a 7x57...my personal choice to have a unique hunting rifle would be a Lee-Speed Sporter in .303 or a Ross 1910 in .280 Ross.

ETA- The type and grade of wood you choose to stock it with and the shaping and fitment work is where a lot of the labor hours tally up to $$$$.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Any caliber custom Mauser rifle is going to be expensive. Unless you have a bona fide need for an esoteric chambering, you might be better off with a 7x57...my personal choice to have a unique hunting rifle would be a Lee-Speed Sporter in .303 or a Ross 1910 in .280 Ross.

ETA- The type and grade of wood you choose to stock it with and the shaping and fitment work is where a lot of the labor hours tally up to $$$$.

A Lee-Speed would be a welcome addition to my gun rack, absolutely. I like the .303 and have two of them; just want to add something heavier too. The Ross, I've never handled one before and while a straight-pull is good for a scoped rifle, I'm not 100% on using one. Not discounting it as a good gun, because I know they've done well in the sporting world, just not sure if it'd agree with me personally.

As for the Mauser, I plan on keeping it very simple in almost every way. Quality of materials is absolutely important; engraving and extra features on the metal, fancy checkering and stock embellishments, none or very little of that is really on the table. A customized rifle but a working man's, if you like, as opposed to some of the fancier examples you see in early-to-mid century gunmakers for the well-to-do. I want the artistry and skill to be in the construction, not in the decoration.

 

[RTH1800]

Something about saving 80% or more and getting a rifle this week you find troubling?

 

[Dan M]

GunBroker.com - Error

This is an Oberndorf Model B sporter, which seems to meet your criteria. You can build one, spend as much or more to recreate it...and wind up with a rifle that won’t sell for half of what you spent to build it. A factory built sporter will hold it’s value.

 

[Son of Dorn]

GunBroker.com - Error

This is an Oberndorf Model B sporter, which seems to meet your criteria. You can build one, spend as much or more to recreate it...and wind up with a rifle that won’t sell for half of what you spent to build it. A factory built sporter will hold it’s value.

And like I said, buying one is an option if I can find what I want. I'm not against doing that. But I'm also planning for the "If I have to build it, I will" contingency if there's not an alternative solution. This is how I buy guns. I look, I plan, I decide. I appreciate your input on the subject and I'm not disagreeing that the simplest way can be the best way. We'll just have to see what happens, and whether I'm happy with whatever rifle I end up with.

And with that, this thread is now closed. Thank you for your attention and feedback.
Son of Dorn

 

[Fig]

Weird. Did you touch iron or silver and your magical powers suddenly disappeared?

 

[bourbonbent]

I vote build it yourself, let the art flow through you and into the chamber.

Buy this book and get to gettin.

 

[Son of Dorn]

It would appear that someone has edited my thread. Since the relevant question has been adequately answered ("possible but not recommended") and I've decided on a different calibre anyway, I'm kinda wondering why. Seems impolite to do that to someone without asking first. But if you really must comment, keep it polite and relevant. Carry on.

 

[bourbonbent]

 

[Spblademaker]

 

[RTH1800]

This has potential to go epic.
?

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

I see your calibre and raise you a calibre.....

Lunchtime boys...sitter is fixing my favorite grape kool-aide.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Fig]

 

[Huskydriver]

What kind of scope is going on this Mauser build?

 

[bourbonbent]

What kind of scope is going on this Mauser build?

It better be a Quigley.

 

[Son of Dorn]

What kind of scope is going on this Mauser build?

Haven't fully decided yet but I'm looking at vintage Hensoldts, also Kahles and Kollmorgens at the suggestion of sirhrmechanic on another thread. Either a side rail or double claw for the mount.

 

[Huskydriver]

Haven't fully decided yet but I'm looking at vintage Hensoldts, also Kahles and Kollmorgens at the suggestion of sirhrmechanic on another thread. Either a side rail or double claw for the mount.

Moa or mil?

 

[Veer_G]

Hi,

I see your calibre and raise you a calibre.....

Lunchtime boys...sitter is fixing my favorite grape kool-aide.

Sincerely,
Theis

View attachment 7125189

Geeze. Get it right.

 

[Steel head]

Haven't fully decided yet but I'm looking at vintage Hensoldts, also Kahles and Kollmorgens at the suggestion of sirhrmechanic on another thread. Either a side rail or double claw for the mount.

I’ll be honest.
And old henny would be cool on it.

 

[DukeGSP]

i have a Argentine 1909 in 6mm that i like a lot. if you have a vision, go for it.

 

[Dewey7271]

View media item 1395

 

[Tucker301]

Claw mount. Definitely.

 

[RTH1800]

Are the military contract overrun Counter-snipers all gone??

 

[Son of Dorn]

Claw mount. Definitely.

Is that a legitimate upvote for using a claw mount, or are you just clowning around too?

 

[RTH1800]

Serious post.
If you are interested in a vintage scope mount set up let me know. I have a number of them. Irons, Lyman 48’s etc.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Serious post.
If you are interested in a vintage scope mount set up let me know. I have a number of them. Irons, Lyman 48’s etc.

Thanks for the offer.

 

[bourbonbent]

Also serious post.

I do a lot of hand work and all that, if you need guidance on machines or resources for stuff you want to do yourself, feel free to give me a shout. I have to get back to work for now.