Crossed into The Blue

[HotIce]

I finally decided to start reloading pistol calibers, and I have a 550B incoming. The price (and availability) of 45ACP (and in general all pistol) ammunition pretty much drove the decision.
Starting up with 45ACP, 230gr LRN bullets, and TiteGroup powder.
I read a lot of people are having problems with the Dillon powder measure, so I hope TiteGroup would meter fine on mine.
If I'll be able to reload 300 rounds/hour I'll consider myself happy.
Later on I will try to load some rifle ammunition with the 550B, just to try. But I pretty much think rifle ammo will continue to be single stage domain for me.

 

[mdmp5]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

The powder measure can be a bit tricky, as there is a lot of play in it. I load .45 acp, .223, .308 and .300 win mag in mine, using the press as a single stage with the rifle calibers. I would recommend getting a micrometer for your powder bar, as the standard bolt adjustment is a bitch to adjust. You shouldn't have too much variance with a flake or ball powder like titegroup. One thing you should do is polish the inside of the powder funnel. I just shrank my variance with extruded powder by doing so.

 

[HotIce]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

Thanks.
I already planned in adopting a solution for the Dillon screw-based powder bar adjustment.
I also heard about the powder funnel polishing. Will certainly do.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

The Dillon measures do well with ball. Small grained sticks (322, 4227, etc) work good. I have one toolhead set up with an RCBS Uniflow. Works well will all but the slower powders.

 

[HotIce]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

I heard a lot of people mount "alien" powder measures on the 550.
Are they really better?
Do you have to manually load the powder chamber?

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

The Hornady measure with its case-activated dispensing actuator mounts directly into the tool head. Changeovers are much simpler than the Dillon arrangement and with less expense. Each tool head gets its own lower case-activation section, not an entire powder measure. A much better powder measure.

 

[HotIce]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

OK, I get that the Dillon adapter triggers a powder drop, when the case is risen into the die.
But what mechanism resets and fills up the next charge on the powder measure chamber?
The Dillon powder measure resets via the link wire that connects it to the press. How does that happen with alien powder measures? By hand?

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, I get that the Dillon adapter triggers a powder drop, when the case is risen into the die.
But what mechanism resets and fills up the next charge on the powder measure chamber?
The Dillon powder measure resets via the link wire that connects it to the press. How does that happen with alien powder measures? By hand?
</div></div>

The linkage (separate purchase) replaces the drum handle and cycles it up and down similar to the Dillon.

The Hornady linkage works with the newer LNL measure only, but will work with the RCBS. The RCBS and Hornady linkages are the same...except RCBS wants about $20 more.

 

[HotIce]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

So, for example, to use the LNL powder measure on the Dillon 550B, you'll need this plus this plus this ?

Are they (Hornady, RCBS or both) really better than the Dillon, or just some people have randomly better results with any of them?

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, for example, to use the LNL powder measure on the Dillon 550B, you'll need this plus this plus this ?

Are they (Hornady, RCBS or both) really better than the Dillon, or just some people have randomly better results with any of them?
</div></div>

That's what you need. The Uniflow will interchange.

Drum type measures work better with stick powders. I can throw a dozen charges of N140 and 10 will be dead on with two weighing 0.1 less. It's always low, never high and never more than 0.1.

I have four Dillons and even polishing the internals the best was a 0.3 spread. Not bad, but not as good as the Uniflow. I always got decent results with smaller grained powders.

 

[c ward]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

Dillon powder measures meter ball powders like water , pistol powder will throw loads +/- .1 or .2 grains consitantly no problem .
It's just pistol ammo not match bolt gun ammo your talking about it will be fine .
I have a 650 and have loaded 10 k + 45acp , 40 S&W and .223 on it and no issues all with the Dillon powder measure .

 

[HotIce]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, for example, to use the LNL powder measure on the Dillon 550B, you'll need this plus this plus this ?

Are they (Hornady, RCBS or both) really better than the Dillon, or just some people have randomly better results with any of them?
</div></div>
Actually, I don't need the first, since the second includes it:

 

[HotIce]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C Ward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dillon powder measures meter ball powders like water , pistol powder will throw loads +/- .1 or .2 grains consitantly no problem .
It's just pistol ammo not match bolt gun ammo your talking about it will be fine .
I have a 650 and have loaded 10 k + 45acp , 40 S&W and .223 on it and no issues all with the Dillon powder measure . </div></div>
Yeah, I guess that as far as pistol goes, it should be fine with ball powder. I read TiteGroup (which is the one I plan to use) meters fairly well with the Dillon powder measure.
Problems will eventually show up if I reload rifle cases, where I use IMR4895 (223 and 308), H4350 (260 Rem and 6.5mm CM) and IMR7828 (7mm RM).

 

[Rookie]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

Hotice,

Congrats on your purchase of a great press.

I suggest you try the Dillon thrower before spending the bucks on a switch. Unless you're bullseye shoooting, I think you'll find the Dillon thrower works just fine. I've loaded many thousands of rounds with Unique and 700X and never had an accuracy issue. Both of which are flake powders.

Yes the Dillon thrower makes all kinds of goofy noises in operation but I feel that all that rattling keeps the powder column compact. The reset wire assures that you never have a thrower that sticks open like sometimes happens with the LNL.

Yes the LNL thrower is more consistant but for pistol shootin, the Dillon rocks just like it comes from the factory, no polishing. Some people just have to polish/fiddle/modify. You may be one those types. I'm not. I have two Dillon throwers that work just fine.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some people just have to polish/fiddle/modify. You may be one those types.</div></div>

Polishing doesn't help ball powders. It does help consistency with stick. Some of us like to improve things.

 

[HotIce]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

Rookie, I will definitely try it before investing more money, that for sure.
What I wonder, is why Dillon, which is by many considered #1 in this market, does not try to address the issue with a different design.
Too many people I've read complaining about their powder thrower, for it to be just a simple Internet rumor.

 

[viking]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

You can also just pick up a Dillon funnel adaptor and funnel (+/- $25 total) and use your current setup to manually throw your charges. To speed up the process you can get a chargemaster.

 

[c ward]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

Like the other guy's have said the Dillon measure does not meter stick powders well at all . Hoser on here has a tutorial of the mods to the powder measure to get them to meter stick powder better . Also the is a section at BrianEnos.com on the Dillon press's .

You have to look at the history of Dillon to see why they do a lot of the things they do . Mike Dillon was / is machine gun shooter first and started the reloading company to load ammo for this . Machine gun ammo is pretty much minute of dirt bank and as long as there is a lot of it and it goes bang your GTG

 

[HotIce]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C Ward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to look at the history of Dillon to see why they do a lot of the things they do . Mike Dillon was / is machine gun shooter first and started the reloading company to load ammo for this . Machine gun ammo is pretty much minute of dirt bank and as long as there is a lot of it and it goes bang your GTG </div></div>
Yes, but you can't fail to recognize that nowadays Dillon presses are used not only by machine gun shooters

My point is, since Dillon is famous for its outstanding customer service, why would they fail to ignore what is recognized by many of its users, as a problem. Or at least, a problem with certain powders.
As I am certain Dillon is sure not happy in seeing customers sporting a LNL or Uniflow measures on their presses.

 

[c ward]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

Thats a question that I have no good answer for and is a good point .
The only reason that I can come up with is the majority of there machines go to high volume pistol shooters and the powder measure works as designed for that .
Everybody I shoot with that load precision ammo on there Dillon use the powder funnel and weigh the charges .

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

Well into my second decade using a secondhand RL550B. Only press I have ever owned, only one I want.

Coupla thoughts. Think in term of 'stacking tolerances', where 'rattle factors' add up. Some are important, some aren't. the ones where the tool head moves vertically aren't important. The ones where the base plate moves vertically are. Keep base plate vertical play to an absolute minimum by adjusting it so it rotates just loose enough not to bind.

The cylindrical powders don't move as freely, and anything you can do to free them up is a plus. Polishing the path is a good start. Static electricity affects flow, so grounding the press electrically also helps. Finally, slow down and establish a steady rhythm to give the measure time to completely fill and completely empty, and to do it with best consistency.

The 550 has mucho mechanical advantage, so any time there's significant resistance, stop. There's a reason for the resistance, and it's usually something weird going on. Trying to force things just makes them weirder.

I make my best ammo on the 550. Heck, I make <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> my ammo on the 550; I don't have anything else. Don't need it, either.

FYI, My ammo is all made to match specs, which means I measure all charges. They vary. Not enough to be a problem for anything but match ammo, though.

My method of dealing with it is to adjust the measure to throw heavy all the time, then pinch grains to adjust while it's in the scale pan. Pinched grains go back into the measure's hopper.

Finally, when you're swapping parts and systems, go easy on those mounting scews you're working with. That's the one part of the system that can't be controlled by good design. You overtorque things; you did it, not Dillon. They'll replace what needs replacing, no questions, no arguments; but the beast is down until the replacement parts arrive. Keep that in mind when you're cranking on those Allen wrenches.

Greg

 

[1911fan]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

I've had a 550 and a 650 for years. Never felt the need for powder measure changes because I load ball powders.
Plenty of good load data out there for ball powders. FWIW I've been using AA2460 for all my .223 loads. Meters well, shoots fine.
You can load close to 500 rounds/hour on the 550 if you prep. Get some extra primer tubes so you can have several filled and ready to drop in. Have your powder and brass handy to the press, so you don't have to move
around. Have a large bin close, to empty the finished round tub into.
I like the Strong Mounts. I generally load standing up, and they make the press taller, plus you can mount a bullet tray on the left side.
Then crank away! Oh, and watch the powder hopper- it empties real fast! Dillon makes a "Low Powder" alarm.


1911fan

 

[kirkhamg]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

I have the Hornady progressive and like it fine. I have tried to use some Red-Dot lately, and it doesn't meter as well as Tite-group/Bullseye.

A bunch of guys at our club use the Dillon with Tite-group, Bullseye, Clays and Unique. I have not noticed any squib or missed charges when shooting in their squads. In the case of a couple of them that I did some load testing with, their Dillon loaded ammo demonstrates excellent accuracy and consitency.

Aside: I really like the Berry's plated bullets (230 gr. RN)in my .45 loads.

 

[HotIce]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

I am not much concerned about pistol calibers, but rifle eventually (where I use stick powder). But as Greg said, I can always weigh the single charges eventually, and at the same time take advantage of the multi-stages of the 550.

 

[TOPO-sniper]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

Uniquetek - check these folks out for tricks for your 559B. Check out the micrometer for your powderbar too. Good stuff.

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1230

 

[Agent Ronin]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Uniquetek - check these folks out for tricks for your 559B. Check out the micrometer for your powderbar too. Good stuff.

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1230 </div></div>

+1 to Uniquetek

I have 2 dillon powder measures for my 650. I have done the following mods / improvments to both and have greatly improved their function.

- Uniquetek powder baffle
- Micrometer added to my powder bars (X-Small, Small, Large)
- Polished the hell out of the funnel area. (Flitz and a Dremel)
- Filed the powder bar area on the measure with a fine file, just to remove any rough spots.

Granted large stick powders wont meter as well as ball, but i get +/- 0.5gn with IMR4895 as long as i do my part and keeping the press cycle nice and smooth. EDIT: I originally said +/- 1gn I had a brain fart and meant to say +/- 0.5 which is a 1gn total spread

EDIT: For what its worth, i am tempted to buy one of those CNC Milled toolheads and see how nice they're made. (http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1333)

 

[HotIce]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

I'd be way more than happy, to continue to use IMR4895 for my 223 and 308 loads, if the spread is as low as 0.1gr.
Heck, even 0.2gr would be OK with me, with IMR4895.

 

[Agent Ronin]

Re: Crossed into The Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd be way more than happy, to continue to use IMR4895 for my 223 and 308 loads, if the spread is as low as 0.1gr.
Heck, even 0.2gr would be OK with me, with IMR4895.
</div></div>

Yea give it a shot... Having a good smooth technique is probably the most important to getting consistent throws with the Dillon measure when using stick powder.